Results 1 to 18 of 18
Like Tree16Likes
  • 2 Post By dumiya
  • 1 Post By skidquinn
  • 2 Post By TC
  • 1 Post By artman
  • 3 Post By Barry O'Speedwagon
  • 2 Post By dumiya
  • 2 Post By TC
  • 1 Post By pbarton

Thread: Giotto Rocket vs Breviile Oracle

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    7

    Giotto Rocket vs Breviile Oracle

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hello Coffee Lovers!! Well I am new to the online world of Coffee Snobs, but not new to coffee. So...a little introduction about myself. My first coffee machine was a Brunetti Simona Top which I purchased just over 21 years ago (1995). It was amazing for it's time given that domestic coffee machines were pretty much limited to filtered coffee machines or if you were more advanced maybe a Bialetti Stove Top Perculator. It was always the center of attention when friends visited to see a commercial grade coffee machine (with an E61 filter handle) in the home. This machine was noisy, only had one boiler and a pretty average steam wand that was incapable of producing a velvet texture the milk. Despite this however, it kept me going for 9 years until I had enough with its shortcomings. It wasn't long before the automatics started arriving and it was the Jura Impressa E85 that caught my attention in 2004. At the time it resembled the sleek styling of a European Motor Vehicle, with high grade plastics, led lighting, rotary switches etc. However it wasn't long before I realised that these machines were only capable of consistency.....more specifically, consistently average coffee at the press of a button! So...after 3 years of very convenient, but consistently average coffee, I purchased the Giotto Rocket!!! Wow, a terrific quality machine that produced excellent coffee and looked terrific in my coffee bar area!!! BUT (yes there is a but) after 10 years of sometimes good, sometimes bad coffee...I am on the hunt for yet another machine.

    I guess I should point out that whilst I have a fair understanding and appreciation of coffee....I am no master barista. I need a quality machine, that has features that help control the many variables that affect the quality of coffee. So am am thinking about the Breville Oracle. I know that some of you would think that is madness (coming from a Rocket), however keep in mind that I have used all types of machines and as a very busy property developer, I just want a machine that consistently produces quality coffee with minimal fuss. I am no longer the type to spend endless hours trying to master and produce the ultimate cup of coffee....been there, done that. I consider myself to be a realist. I would appreciate your thoughts and advice!

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Perth WA
    Posts
    572
    " BUT (yes there is a but) after 10 years of sometimes good, sometimes bad coffee...I am on the hunt for yet another machine"
    Interesting, not sure what model Rocket you have. I can produce consistently good to excellent coffee every week from an 08 Rocket Premium hybrid plus. The beans are one of the keys and the grinder. Not sure why you get bad coffee. I suspect the same will apply to what ever you get.
    I noticed this morning as I watch the local coffee shop set up they extracted at least 4 shots to get their marzocco right. A luxury a home machine/ barista doesn't have.
    Stoffy and Cafeconleche7 like this.

  3. #3
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,450
    The rocket and oracle are almost polar opposites.

    You should be able to easily and repeatedly get ripper shots from your giotto. Perhaps invest a bit of time on some good training and you will be faster and get better results from your giotto than the oracle? I assume you are using decent/fresh beans and have a suitable grinder.

    Cheers

  4. #4
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    7
    I buy fresh beans (500g at a time) to maintain freshness, and clearly that's a big factor. I use a conical burr grinder also. However factors such as how much coffee I grind into the filter basket, how much I tamper, how much water is passed through etc etc means that it is hit and miss for me. The Rocket is a terrific machine, just maybe not for me. I guess what I like about the Oracle is the automatic dispensing and tampering of the coffee. I also like that you can place the milk jug under the wand, set your milk temp, level of froth and walk away. The result in the store was incredible.

  5. #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    7
    Yes....Campos, Merlo, Di Bella. 500g at a time to keep beans fresh. Use a conical burr grinder (can't remember brand)

  6. #6
    Senior Member skidquinn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    143
    Agree with artman. Very different machines.
    However, I suspect that you are expecting too much of a machine you can 'walk away' from.
    you should have no issue producing great coffee with the beans you mentioned. I suspect shortfalls in either the grinder or user.
    I also think some training courses using your rocket would be much more beneficial than a new breville.
    Unfortunately they are yet to build a machine that doesn't require at least some effort on the part of the user to create great coffee.
    Lukemc likes this.

  7. #7
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665
    Welcome Cafeconleche7,

    FWIW, I don't think you need a new machine at all. I think that what you want/need is timed doserless grinder.

    Might I suggest you investigate grinders such as the Mazzer mini-e/super jolly-e, Macap M4D, Compak E5OD, Rocket Fausto et al..

    I suspect that one of these will solve 90% of your problems, leave a whole heap of cash in your pocket and deliver better coffee more consistently than the Oracle will- with far higher reliability for the machine/grinder combo.

    Good luck either way...

    Chris
    Dimal and Magic_Matt like this.

  8. #8
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,450
    The grind, dose and tamp you should be able to nail fairly easily. Likewise the milk. If you are willing to devote a bit of time to learn the above you will get great results.

    Granted the oracle is unique in giving "real" coffee fairly easily. It is quite complex, it will be interesting to see how they go longevity wise.

    Cheers

  9. #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by skidquinn View Post
    Agree with artman. Very different machines.
    However, I suspect that you are expecting too much of a machine you can 'walk away' from.
    you should have no issue producing great coffee with the beans you mentioned. I suspect shortfalls in either the grinder or user.
    I also think some training courses using your rocket would be much more beneficial than a new breville.
    Unfortunately they are yet to build a machine that doesn't require at least some effort on the part of the user to create great coffee.
    Thanks for your feedback. I'm not sure that the Oracle is entirely a machine that you can just 'walk away from'? That would be more like a Jura or a Delonghi wouldn't it. The whole idea of the Oracle is that it is a hybrid aimed at the home barista. Whilst it has some automatic functions/benefits you still need to adjust numerous settings depending on the coffee. You can also use it entirely in manual mode...so it kind of gives you the best of both worlds. It might be worth pointing out that I haven't yet committed to buying this machine....just considering it. The in-store demo however was very impressive.

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by artman View Post
    The rocket and oracle are almost polar opposites.

    You should be able to easily and repeatedly get ripper shots from your giotto. Perhaps invest a bit of time on some good training and you will be faster and get better results from your giotto than the oracle? I assume you are using decent/fresh beans and have a suitable grinder.

    Cheers
    Different machines yes, but it seems people are still interested in comparing them...
    https://youtu.be/1-GYTJREc0c

  11. #11
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,450
    The oracle is unique (and amazingly seems to accomplish automating some normally "artful" aspects - eg milk texturing), but as above it still needs user intervention in selecting grind, dose etc.

    As mentioned by Chris, a good grinder with dose control will make this aspect easier for you (you could even get the OCD distribution gadget to help?) and you can continue to use the machine you have.

    Cheers
    Cafeconleche7 likes this.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    PRL
    Posts
    2,709
    Quote Originally Posted by Cafeconleche7 View Post
    Different machines yes, but it seems people are still interested in comparing them...
    https://youtu.be/1-GYTJREc0c
    I look forward to their next installment, 'Which is better? A Horse or a Dolphin?'

    On top the useful advice above, if you find you have trouble dosing consistently, the use of digital scales (if only as a feedback mechanism) can help.
    Dimal, Magic_Matt and TC like this.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Perth WA
    Posts
    572
    I had quite a learning curve. When I relaxed and did the timed extraction it came together. That is beans, grinder, tamp and using medicine measuring glasss to extract a total 54mls in 27 sec I got close to the taste I wanted. That is two glasses with 27ml in each. To sweeten the coffee I stop the shot at around 20 ml. I think the local marzocco 4G monster does this by selection for the lattes.
    I guess the Oracle approximates this automatically but most units like the Rocket, it does require some human involvement apart from drinking the result..
    Lukemc and Cafeconleche7 like this.

  14. #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Great advice Chris. Richard, don't underestimate the importance of a quality grinder.
    I use an ANFIM KS Grinder (direct grind on demand). Is that considered good enough quality??? Or would a Mini Mazzer be better??

  15. #15
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665
    Hi Ccl,

    The reason I suggested the grinders I did is that you can set grind size and then a predetermined grind time. This will allow you to work quickly, cleanly and remove the overwhelming majority of the variation you are experiencing.
    dumiya and Cafeconleche7 like this.

  16. #16
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    25
    The Oracle is an impressive machine from the comparison. That is an impressive level of automation. However, I achieve what I consider to be excellent results from a Rocket R58 and a Mazzer Kony. As with other's recommendations, you can achieve excellent coffees with not much effort with your existing machine and a good grinder. Invest in the grinder.
    Cafeconleche7 likes this.

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Perth WA
    Posts
    572
    I also achieve excellent results from a Kony and R58
    But at work I also achieve excellent results with a M4D and Giotto Rocket Premium. The folk are super satisfied!
    As above consider a better grinder.
    I has been suggested in the forum the grinder should match the cost of the Espresso machine! Ouch! That is why we bought a Kony-e. Ouch. We have never regretted this purchase. Originally bought for the Premium It is now paired with the R58.

  18. #18
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Altona, Melbourne
    Posts
    1,583
    As a rocket giotto owner I feel well placed to comment here. A machine upgrade won't give you what you are after unless there is something wrong with your machine.
    I have a compak k3 grinder and can make a flat white in less time than it takes to boil the jug for the wife's cup of tea.
    If you are after consistency and ease of use then don't change any of the variables. Use the same beans in the same due post roast date range. Adjust the grinder minimally, don't adjust your dose and tamp.
    Put milk in jug, grind, tamp, lock into machine, start pump, clear steam wand and start steaming, finish steaming, stop pump, clean wand, add milk to coffee, clean handle and group head, clean milk jug. Enjoy coffee.

    Ps. Your grinder has flat burrs not conical



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •