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Thread: Endless obsession with extracting a "honey" like shot from my Breville Oracle

  1. #1
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    Endless obsession with extracting a "honey" like shot from my Breville Oracle

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    If I put together a short video, can you guys help me determine why my Oracle is unable to pull a shot like this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOLZbRmC9mk

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84_EsTeyWj4

    Or the end of that video, the crema looks great, and the espresso looks thick....

    I'm not getting a great honey like shot throughout, it's watery way too soon, and blonde too soon. My beans are home roasted, 1-5 days old usually.

    I'm beginning to think it's a dosage issue, I'm unable to increase the dosage, which I believe would fix all of this.

    Perhaps i'm over thinking all of this....

  2. #2
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    Your shot sounds under extracted and I'd say that your beans are still green. Breville recommends using beans 5-20 days after roast.
    Then adjusting the grind to a finer setting
    Correct, you can't increase the dosage, but you can increase the tamp force.

  3. #3
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Are you using the single or double shot basket? How much are you dosing into the basket?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Are you using the single or double shot basket? How much are you dosing into the basket?
    I use a double basket which came with the machine + 21g of beans into the grinder and then double shot

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    It could also be your beans. Maybe try another (non supermarket) brand and see if there is any change

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    You probably just need to grind finer. You may even be over dosing it a bit. But just change one thing at a time so try grinding finer by just moving one increment at a time on your grinder.

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    21 gms that is a lot. I use 14gms and have a nice taste in the cups. Perhaps lower the amount and see if the grinder will produce the taste. But of course, each to his own

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    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    I just worked on a new Oracle. I didn't get a superb shot until I adjusted the grind fine, decreased tamp pressure and time and set preinfusion to 60% pump pressure for 24 seconds.

    ... but it was a great shot! Esperanza 10 days' post roast.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprezzatura View Post
    I just worked on a new Oracle. I didn't get a superb shot until I adjusted the grind fine, decreased tamp pressure and time and set preinfusion to 60% pump pressure for 24 seconds.

    ... but it was a great shot! Esperanza 10 days' post roast.
    Can you take a video of the settings, then the shot pulling (double shot) please? I would be very grateful. I'll go ahead and do the same with your settings after I see the setup and shot pour.

    I double checked the level of roast of our beans with an expert at the place we buy them, he said they are fine, beans aren't the issue.
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    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeNewebie View Post
    Can you take a video of the settings, then the shot pulling (double shot) please? I would be very grateful. I'll go ahead and do the same with your settings after I see the setup and shot pour.

    I double checked the level of roast of our beans with an expert at the place we buy them, he said they are fine, beans aren't the issue.
    Ok! I'll give it a shot tomorrow - I have the machine for a few more days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sprezzatura View Post
    Ok! I'll give it a shot tomorrow - I have the machine for a few more days.
    Many thanks. On your two ounce shots, is it two ounces with the crema or without?

  12. #12
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeNewebie View Post
    Many thanks. On your two ounce shots, is it two ounces with the crema or without?
    I don't do two ounce shots; I can try two ounces but crema diminishes when more hot water is forced through coffee; it depends on the coffee too. CS has some high-crema varieties. I have some SO Ethiopian so we'll see what happens, hey?

  13. #13
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeNewebie View Post
    Many thanks. On your two ounce shots, is it two ounces with the crema or without?
    I don't do 2 oz shots either, nor do I weigh my shots, my drink of choice is a Lungo, approx 80ml in 30 seconds, crema is never a problem.

    If I were weighing shots would include crema, pretty difficult not to.

    I have a Lungo in front of me now, extracted from 18 grams of Ethiopian Gambella roasted 5 days ago, thick layer of crema, viscous mouth feel and big cocoa flavours.
    Last edited by Yelta; 29th June 2016 at 11:31 AM.
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    Life-long Learner DesigningByCoffee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprezzatura View Post
    I just worked on a new Oracle. I didn't get a superb shot until I adjusted the grind fine, decreased tamp pressure and time and set preinfusion to 60% pump pressure for 24 seconds.

    ... but it was a great shot! Esperanza 10 days' post roast.
    Agreed. Fresh beans. Grind finer. Tamp lighter. If you can't get the handle in - put a little less in. If the puck is soggy - a little more.
    Cheers Matt
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    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    I don't do 2 oz shots either, nor do I weigh my shots, my drink of choice is a Lungo, approx 80ml in 30 seconds, crema is never a problem.

    If I were weighing shots would include crema, pretty difficult not to.

    I have a Lungo in front of me now, extracted from 18 grams of Ethiopian Gambella roasted 5 days ago, thick layer of crema, thick viscous mouth feel and big cocoa flavours.
    I have some Gambella coming tomorrow - very excited to see it as espresso! Maybe I can keep the Oracle on the bench another week

  16. #16
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprezzatura View Post
    I have some Gambella coming tomorrow - very excited to see it as espresso! Maybe I can keep the Oracle on the bench another week
    I'm impressed with the Gambella, watch out when roasting, they have a tendency to get away from you.
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  17. #17
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Ok - I'll try to push heat into first crack and drop it quick (I don't know if that's the method but it's been working for the Ardi pretty good).

  18. #18
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprezzatura View Post
    Ok - I'll try to push heat into first crack and drop it quick (I don't know if that's the method but it's been working for the Ardi pretty good).
    Roasted 725 grams of green.

    Approx 14 mins to FC 200C backed the heat of, then another 5 mins to the first snaps of SC.
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  19. #19
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    I'll post a report, thanks, Yelta! Don't have a Heat Snob (yet). Working on it.

  20. #20
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    New filter and handy reminder to swap @ 60 days.

    ... not super important with the BWT fill.

  21. #21
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Unlockable casters a nice feature.

  22. #22
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Powering up: grind set for CS8+ Esperanza. I'm changing it a bit for Ardi CS9.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprezzatura View Post
    I'll post a report, thanks, Yelta! Don't have a Heat Snob (yet). Working on it.
    I still use the old multi meter with temp probe Sprezz, certainly accurate enough for my purposes.DSC_7584_968x648.jpg
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  24. #24
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Grind set for CS8+ La Esperanza.

  25. #25
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    I still use the old multi meter with temp probe Sprezz, certainly accurate for my purposes.DSC_7584_968x648.jpg
    I like it. I might monkey wrench a DMM QR probe into the Behmor.

  26. #26
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprezzatura View Post
    I like it. I might monkey wrench a DMM QR probe into the Behmor.
    Pretty simple setup, main thing is to ensure probe is located well into the bean mass.
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  27. #27
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    There was a clever mod. for the temp. probe in the Behmor's bean mass. I'll look it up again. Cheers, Yelta!

  28. #28
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprezzatura View Post
    There was a clever mod. for the temp. probe in the Behmor's bean mass. I'll look it up again. Cheers, Yelta!
    Lets know how you get on, I've a feeling others have been looking to do the same.
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  29. #29
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    A quick run through the Oracle extraction.






  30. #30
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    That's Sidamo Ardi; 21g pucks.

  31. #31
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Anyway, it's a fun little toy. Not for me but the usability is user-friendly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DesigningByCoffee View Post
    Agreed. Fresh beans. Grind finer. Tamp lighter. If you can't get the handle in - put a little less in. If the puck is soggy - a little more.
    Cheers Matt
    Tamp lighter, interesting. So Grind finer, tamp lighter. You can't change the dosage though, so what do you mean by put in less or more?

    Also, I lowered the pre-infusion/pressure to 55 from 60

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    Quote Originally Posted by sprezzatura View Post
    Anyway, it's a fun little toy. Not for me but the usability is user-friendly.
    I wanted to watch the shot pour! Thought you had a bottomless portafilter you could use so I can record a shot or two from mine then compare......

    Also, are you sticking your finger in the crema immediately after extraction? If you wait two minutes, i'm sure the crema won't be as thick?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sprezzatura View Post
    A quick run through the Oracle extraction.
    Can I also see your tamp and preinfusion settings?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeNewebie View Post
    I wanted to watch the shot pour! Thought you had a bottomless portafilter you could use so I can record a shot or two from mine then compare......

    Also, are you sticking your finger in the crema immediately after extraction? If you wait two minutes, i'm sure the crema won't be as thick?
    Have you tried the suggestion above of letting your beans rest a little longer? It might yield a slightly finer, more stable crema.

  36. #36
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeNewebie View Post

    Also, are you sticking your finger in the crema immediately after extraction? If you wait two minutes, i'm sure the crema won't be as thick?
    Of course the crema won't be as thick after 2 minutes, all crema dissipates with time. The thicker it is at the start, the longer it will last. Also cup size and type make a big difference to crema thickness and quality.
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  37. #37
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    The crema's pretty thick for a few minutes. I ran out of coffee - sorry! Tamp pressure was 4 and 6 for time.

  38. #38
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprezzatura View Post
    The crema's pretty thick for a few minutes.
    Bit like some of the posts in this thread for a while there I thought Ray T Coffeepro had reappeared.

    Reckon its time for some more popcorn.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW1zwaqeL9g457716f3f80b30bf3cef6a90f0879d5e.jpg
    Logga, sprezzatura and Aido like this.

  39. #39
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Oh well ... we try. Next up: How to coax more life out of your crema! 98% IEH Monsoon-mousse crema (film at 11:00pm).

  40. #40
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    I don't do 2 oz shots either, nor do I weigh my shots, my drink of choice is a Lungo, approx 80ml in 30 seconds, crema is never a problem.

    If I were weighing shots would include crema, pretty difficult not to.

    I have a Lungo in front of me now, extracted from 18 grams of Ethiopian Gambella roasted 5 days ago, thick layer of crema, viscous mouth feel and big cocoa flavours.
    Oh man ... just roasted 200g of Gambella, cooled and straight through my Hario sock. Fantastic! My new favourite Ethiopian! It's almost a dead ringer (visually) for the Ardi.



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