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Thread: Profitec Pro 500

  1. #51
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    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Interesting post from this site
    Why Brass Or Copper Boilers In The Coffee Espresso Machines Are Considered To Be The ?Best Choice?? - CoffeeForums Coffee Facts

    This from Why Brass Or Copper Boilers In The Coffee Espresso Machines Are Considered To Be The “Best Choice”?


    Q: Why brass or copper boilers are considered to be the “best choice”?

    A: 1. Heat efficiency. Due to its EXTRAORDINARY THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY and THERMAL CAPACITY, brass gets hot much faster and keeps heat much longer than aluminum and stainless steel. 2. Anti-corrosion resistance. Even though brass getting the thin film of the oxidized layer on the outside surface it doesn't get corroded inside. Aluminum oxidizes very fast, corrodes internally and doesn't keep the right temperature that the Espresso extraction requires. 3. Health benefits. Copper is considered to be one of the most effective antibacterial metals. In ancient times, people used surgical instruments produced from the copper because of its bactericidal properties. The scientific research shows that some life treating bacteria like E.coli survives on the copper surface only for the few hours when it takes 34 days to die on stainless steel. In Italy it is prohibited to use aluminum in the food processed industry. You can find aluminum and stainless steel boilers on cheap espresso machines produced mostly in Asian countries where the health regulations are not strict. All commercial machines are equipped with brass or copper boilers. There are some Espresso machines for home use like Lelit, Brugnetti, Daltio, Expobar, La Scala, Rancilio, Isomac, LaPavoni that have brass boiler inherited from their commercial cousins.
    I wouldn't view the above paragraph as authoritative because of plain silly sounding assertions like - "All commercial machines are equipped with brass or copper boilers." -

    REALLY???????
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  2. #52
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    And I find the assertion that ancient peoples used surgical tools made of copper because of anti bacterial properties a bit odd. Did they even know what bactiera were? I think it's more likely that it was because copper was the sharpest metal they had available.
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    And I find the assertion that ancient peoples used surgical tools made of copper because of anti bacterial properties a bit odd. Did they even know what bactiera were? I think it's more likely that it was because copper was the sharpest metal they had available.
    Ninja I think you would be right. I am reasonably sure the oligodynamic effect (pretty sure that is what this is called) was first discovered with silver with copper sometime after, you would have thought the scalpels would be silver? I know there was recent suggestion to make hospital doorknobs out of brass (in the last few years) for this reason (assume because people would knock off silver doorknobs!).

  4. #54
    Junior Member Umpqua's Avatar
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    Copper and brass are highly conductive transfering heat effeciently, SS conducts poorly.repair wise Copper and brass only need brazing where as SS needs tig/arc very-costly. Copper is getting more and more expensive.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by coffe4me2 View Post
    Also, copper does cost more that stainless...
    You'd think that, but that's not the reality. SS is much more difficult to fabricate and as a result, copper is the less expensive option ex. manufacturer.
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  6. #56
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melbroaster View Post
    I wouldn't view the above paragraph as authoritative because of plain silly sounding assertions like - "All commercial machines are equipped with brass or copper boilers." -

    REALLY???????
    Yeah, I took the quoted post to be about 20% factual, 75% ranting, 5% casual racism. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    Enjoying the discussion about copper vs stainless. While copper in trace amount is a nutrient, in larger amounts over longer periods can accumulate and eventually be harmful to health. Since acidic water will react with to release more copper in your coffee, perhaps it is best to avoid acidic water and optimal to use alkaline water - ph strips are cheap and widely available.

  8. #58
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    Personally I think the sponsor with the solid gold tamper and portafilter handle should offer silver boilers, great thermal conductivity, purifying and relatively easy to work with

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    Yes silver had antibacterial and immune boosting properties. Royalty were called blue bloods because they used silver cultlery.

  10. #60
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Listen4Life View Post
    Yes silver had antibacterial and immune boosting properties. Royalty were called blue bloods because they used silver cultlery.
    Cant let this one go (the Sat morning pedant in me is straining at the leash)

    "This term refers to European Royal nobility and is a metaphor that describes the profound blue appearance of the veins and skin. The term Blue Blood (aka sangre azul) has origins that may predate recorded history. It is very certain a number of factors may have created this term."

    Interestingly the site also explains how using silver drinking vessels etc caused blue skin and veins, (I had no idea)
    "High consumption of Silver actually allowed for very high resistance to bacterial infections. However, the very high levels of Silver also caused Argyria . The condition of Argyria literally caused Blue skin and rather pronounced blue veins and arteries." Learning all the time! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cokngZwEwrw

    https://www.quora.com/How-did-the-te...ood-come-about
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  11. #61
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Cant let this one go (the Sat morning pedant in me is straining at the leash)
    [/URL]
    Didn't think you had it in you Is he wearing a gimp suit?
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  12. #62
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Didn't think you had it in you Is he wearing a gimp suit?
    Yep.
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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Yep.
    Yelta, that's just wrong
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    Looks like it's wearing a gimp suit.
    Actually, Herzog started it.
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  15. #65
    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    It's too late now, what's been seen can't be unseen

  16. #66
    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    At least now if I come to your house I won't need to worry when you say "let's bring out the gimp"
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  17. #67
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    Actually, Herzog started it.
    Your right.

  18. #68
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casa Espresso View Post
    Yelta, that's just wrong
    Your right! it is strangely disturbing.

  19. #69
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Well, that escalated quickly
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    Pity there isn't an option for clear side panels so you could see the sexy internals...
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  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toad View Post
    Pity there isn't an option for clear side panels so you could see the sexy internals...
    Clear perspex is pretty cheap and very easy to work with... 🤔

  22. #72
    Junior Member Umpqua's Avatar
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    What about a clear boiler. At you'd know how good your water is.😕
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  23. #73
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    Hey folks

    Im thinking about taking the plunge and getting pro 500. I sent jet-black an email but he hasnt responded so ill try in here too.

    I currently have a bes920. Smart grinder and have been home roasting with a behmor 1600 for about 7 years now.ive tried alot of what andy sells here on cs and I basically only drink colombian galeras beans cause they are so dam amazing.

    But im starting to get a bit fed up with the breville machine. Ive had an issue with each one and feel it could be time to step up.

    My logic is i want a quality machine that will give me at least 10 years use (with the usual maintenence in between!). Something that can be DIY serviced/repaired. But most importantly something that provides excellent coffee. I work from home so the coffee machine is my "office machine" so gets a decent work out. At least 10 cups per day between my partner and myself.

    Ive watched many youtube clips on a variety of reviews. Opening the machine up etc and i am very impressed. It really has a top quality look and attention to detail. Even under the shell. The simplicity of commonly used parts along with nicely bent pipes and fittings is mechanical porn.

    So from people that have them. Is this the kind of machine i should be looking at. In terms of quality of coffee. Quality of build etc? Would be great to get some feedback.
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  24. #74
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    G'day thirteen, I reckon you'll find owner feedback for Profitec on build quality is universally good (I have their sibling brand ECM). I haven't owned a Breville DB, but the difference between my previous machine (sunbeam em6910) and ECM double boiler is light and day.

    The bigger question is whether the 500 is the best model for you; with your high usage (and maybe tax write off for depreciation?), you can certainly justify a high initial spend.

    Tell us a bit more about these ten coffees - all in the morning, spread throughout the day, white, black, etc...

    One thing to consider is that a double boiler will cost a little more to run - no big deal if it's only on for an hour in the morning, but more do if it's running all day, every day. So the heat exchanger 500 might just be your perfect match.

    Either way, I'd definitely persist with checking out a shortlist in store.

  25. #75
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
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    Well i figured if the BES920 can handle 10 cups with ease, im sure the Pro500 wouldnt even bat an eye. Its just milk coffee or espresso spread out across the day, i usually drink 3 for breakfast, as in 2 back to back then morning tea, pre lunch, lunch, post lunch, afternoon tea and maybe bit before dinner. I have no doubt though the Pro500 or really any machine in this class ($1500-$3000) range will struggle with my use. But due to my accounting background also i'm taking more of a logic approach. In the 7 years of home roasting and making coffee ive saved nearly $80,000 vs the classic sydney $4 cup of coffee price. So the machine outlay isnt really an issue.

    But i'm looking it more as i am a DIY'er, (i have 2 hobby cars, and i do alot of manufacturing with timber and metal) so i'm not afraid to tear it open and mend stuff, and the pro500 and even the 700 both look capable of being home repaired relatively easily. I'm harping on alot about the repair state before ive even got the machine, but i'm just coming from the point that i've had to go through quite a few repairs with my current set of machines so the next step is to buy something that i dont really even have to do much too, other than descale and flush out. I understand parts die, but looks simple enough to fix.

    I truth also for that price range most of hte machines will do a top job, so it has to be something else that is t he point of difference, which is why im looking at the pro500, top build quality, ease of maintenance, quality of cup.
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  26. #76
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
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    Yeah initially as in 7 years ago, all the temperature settings was a big thing to me, now i dont care, i just want to turn it on, make good coffee and work. Thats why i like the 500, just turn it on, heat it up and off u go.

    Actually how long does the 500 take to heat up ready to go, my partner she leaves for work at 4.30am usually so i get up and make her some coffee before she goes for the day.

  27. #77
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirteen13 View Post
    Yeah initially as in 7 years ago, all the temperature settings was a big thing to me, now i dont care, i just want to turn it on, make good coffee and work. Thats why i like the 500, just turn it on, heat it up and off u go.

    Actually how long does the 500 take to heat up ready to go, my partner she leaves for work at 4.30am usually so i get up and make her some coffee before she goes for the day.
    If you have a regular lifestyle like that, just get a timer for it to preheat and don't even worry about the specifics of how long it'll take. Like many e61s, it'll take ~40 mins and most get around it with a timer (as I do with my ECM, my timer comes on at 5am and it's good to go). You can choose a quicker machine to be able to flick it on and potter around waiting to come to temp, some other brands will do that for you, but... it's still a heatup of 10 or so minutes, so don't make it an issue, just commit to a cheapy digital timer IMO - or a wifi one if you need to be a little more spontaneous.

    The pressurestat in the Pro 500 is a good one, will happily handle the machine being on for longer stretches - I know JetBlack leaves their staffroom Pro 500 on all day, so once it's on for your first coffee you'd be able to leave it on for good stretches of the day.
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  28. #78
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
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    Yes this is very handy to know and not really an issue, once its heated up leaving it on will just retain the heat. Big W and Kmart sell nice little timers too.
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  29. #79
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
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    Actually another quick question, in terms of descale and backflush. I normally backflush my 920 weekly and descale every 2-3 months. So i'll assume same with the pro500. Is there manual controls on the machine to force the boilers etc to fill up or how does it work? I would have had the idea like that youtube clip you sent before dodgy x you empty the boiler out of water, and fill the tank up with descale mix so it fills the boiler, let it sit for however long, then drain it down?

  30. #80
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Descaling an HX is a little different to your Sunbeam. Preventative maintenance is preferred over regular descale - so that means decent water filtration. My machine is 2 years old but hasn't been descaled at all yet. Might be due for it soon, but prevention is better than cure. Can't answer the question of _how_ but as far as I know there's a bit of a process with descaling an HX. Nothing you can't do yourself though, just won't need to be nearly as regular as the Sunbeam.
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    This link pretty much describes well how a HX machine can be descaled.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuODdWm7oJQ

    It is demonstrated on a Bezzera machine, but it won't be much different on the Profitec 500. Readeral's advise to prevent scale buildup by treating your water is probably better though. There is a chance that during descaling some scale gets dislodged and ends up somewhere in your machine where it causes other problems.
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  32. #82
    Junior Member Heston's Avatar
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    Profitec Pro 500

    Quote Originally Posted by Thirteen13 View Post
    Actually how long does the 500 take to heat up ready to go, my partner she leaves for work at 4.30am usually so i get up and make her some coffee before she goes for the day.
    I bought a WeMo when I got my pro 500. I'm up at the same time every morning so have it on a schedule weekdays 15mins before I need it. Then turn it on with the app before I head home after work. Can disable the schedule when I'm on arvo shift.

    I find 15 mins is enough for decent brew group temp. I backflush at least weekly, chemical backflush monthly. Have noticed recently the brew lever gets grippy after chemical backflush so have added lubricating the cam to the monthly regime which is very quick and easy to do. I also use nothing but bottled water as I don't trust perth tap water.

    Besides the build quality and consistent performance other features I've appreciated are the large capacity drip tray, rotary valves for steam and water, no requirement for cooling flush. I can see myself keeping it beyond 10 years easy.
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  33. #83
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
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    Hey Heston,

    Yeah thats really handy to know. I also lived in Perth so i know what ur saying.
    Im going to resurect the old bombora filter so get some softer stuff going then hopefully shouldnt have as many dramas.
    Its good to note youll get that long from the machine. Honestly for the putlay of the machine if coffee is a priority its not really that high. Espcially if your one of these types that buys a $4 take away one every day. Ive saved many many tens of thousands by just diy

  34. #84
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    No Australian spec Hx should require a cooling flush.

  35. #85
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    I guess the obvious question here is why don't the manufacturers make machines like this for everywhere?

    The laws of physics are not different in Australia, and the boiling point of water is the same

    Machines are nearly always used indoors at room temperature.

    So what's different about Australia?

  36. #86
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    Machines that are well configured are done in a way that their brew temp meets the requirements of end users. Most home users in Aus will subject their machines to a few shots here and there spaced apart by a few minutes break a few times a day and prefer a brew temp of about 93c and so thats what the good manufacturers/importers deliver.

    If you however get one of these machines and put it in a geographic location where people use the machines in a similar way but prefer a hotter brew temp the customers would be less happy with our spec. Similarly if you put one of these single group prosumer style machines in a smaller business such as a small cafe or hairdressing salon as is more common in various places in europe and put it under higher load with periods of back to back shots, the machines would run cold and again, the customers wouldn't be happy.

    Laws of physics are constant but customer requirements vary.
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  37. #87
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    That's a pretty decent explanation. Australia is a pretty discerning coffee market.

  38. #88
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Yeah it is at the moment, I'm still experimenting with different dosing/distribution techniques to get the best result.. but I actually quite like the stepped adjustments to be honest!

    Because I usually have two or three different beans on the go, it's good having a concrete place to get back to when alternating beans. I honestly don't know how this is done with stepless grinders... but I'd still love to upgrade at some stage. Will figure that out when I get to it (as I'm sure alot CSers have multiple beans at the one time alternating through their grinder...)

  39. #89
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    NICE setup! 👍

    Quote Originally Posted by simonsk8r View Post
    Will figure that out when I get to it (as I'm sure alot CSers have multiple beans at the one time alternating through their grinder...)
    Yeah, not that big a deal with a worm gear provided the two grinds are fairly close - just remember the number of turns 😉

    Or then again, you could just run two grinders.... 🤔
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  40. #90
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Haha thanks all. Ah a whole bench dedicated to grinders... how awesome would that be... XD

  41. #91
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quick question about the Profitec (and HX machines in general). Should the boiler be emptied out often? Like after daily or every week? Just thinking would be a good idea surely to clear that out (ie turn machine off, run hot water tap until empty).. just don't recall seeing it in the manual.. And as I don't have any water filtration it probably would be a good idea to often yeah? Thanks guys

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonsk8r View Post
    Quick question about the Profitec (and HX machines in general). Should the boiler be emptied out often? Like after daily or every week?
    Use the boiler water as much as you can.

    Try to use the boiler water as part of your prep, such as for warming cups and the like.

    And of course if you have a long black drinker or tea drinker in the household, use it for that too.

    Keeps the boiler water fresh and avoids scale.
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  43. #93
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    Use the boiler water as much as you can.

    Try to use the boiler water as part of your prep, such as for warming cups and the like.

    And of course if you have a long black drinker or tea drinker in the household, use it for that too.

    Keeps the boiler water fresh and avoids scale.
    Ah great idea, will do, thanks
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  44. #94
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    Use the boiler water as much as you can.

    Try to use the boiler water as part of your prep, such as for warming cups and the like.

    And of course if you have a long black drinker or tea drinker in the household, use it for that too.

    Keeps the boiler water fresh and avoids scale.
    I turn over a full water tank on my 700 between the two boilers each day with brewing, flushing, long blacks and filling my goose neck kettle for pourovers!
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  45. #95
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Yep, no need to drain completely except for transport or service - just turn the water over by using the hot water wand for cup preheating, flushing the drip tray etc. I found having the machine plumbed in helpful; nothing worse than filling your cup to preheat with puck all ready to go... and then having to stop and fill the tank! At least on the 500 you can just lift off the tray without moving cups etc.

    @greenman have you done any competitive testing between boiler water and filtered or tap for pourover? They always say you shouldn't use re-boiled water for tea as it gets de-oxygenated which affects flavour; I guess if you're turning the water over often enough maybe that won't matter? 🤔
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  46. #96
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_Matt View Post
    Yep, no need to drain completely except for transport or service - just turn the water over by using the hot water wand for cup preheating, flushing the drip tray etc. I found having the machine plumbed in helpful; nothing worse than filling your cup to preheat with puck all ready to go... and then having to stop and fill the tank! At least on the 500 you can just lift off the tray without moving cups etc.

    @greenman have you done any competitive testing between boiler water and filtered or tap for pourover? They always say you shouldn't use re-boiled water for tea as it gets de-oxygenated which affects flavour; I guess if you're turning the water over often enough maybe that won't matter? 🤔
    Matt I use the boiler water for quick pourovers in the morning rush when my wife and son both want a quick coffee, I boil the Bonavita when I am doing my V60's etc.

  47. #97
    Senior Member Brewster's Avatar
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    Hi Simon.
    All good advice regarding regular turnover of boiler water.
    Is there any reason why you're not using filtered water? Plenty of discussion on this site as to why filtered water together with regular turnover will go a long way to reducing scale build up.
    Doesn't need to be an expensive setup, I'm just using the Aqua Pro Benchtop Filtration system which is readly available from site sponsors.

    Cheers
    Mal
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  48. #98
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Yeah it probably is a good idea to use filtered water.. just funds-wise I was holding off (and I tried reading alot of the posts on water filtration and just got mighty confused haha..), but it isn't too pricey I guess, I'll get that soon. If it definitely does help in prolonging the life of the machine it makes sense considering what I spent for the machine. Thanks guys, appreciate all your help
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  49. #99
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    awesome outcome....enjoy the shots of pure bliss
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  50. #100
    Junior Member DavidJJ's Avatar
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    Wow. This machine seems really interesting. I was about to pull the trigger on a Rocket but may have to consider this one and see it for myself.
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