Post By JetBlack_Espresso
Post By JetBlack_Espresso
Post By tannyboy
Post By TC
Post By TC
Post By dumiya
A new machine needed - Rocket Appartamento or Bezzera BZ10 ?
Long time stalker ....first time poster .... lot's of sensational info on this site :-))
It's time for an upgrade, previous machines have been a Breville Cafe 800ESR and Saeco Via Venezia.
This is a home machine, sitting on an apartment bench so space is a bit of a premium, but the machine also has to look good as it is on full display from the lounge and dining room ...... sort of "Cafe Art" if you like !
We typically drink 4+ flat whites during the morning, and maybe a couple of Espressos, and a few more when entertaining, so not overly high demand.
I get the priority for investment in a good grinder and may wait to see how the Baratza Sette 270W reviews, as at least this has some attractiveness in the design.
Had initially contemplated the Breville BES920 with a good grinder, but thought for a little more could get something of better quality that will also look better on the bench. (WAF considered).
After quite a bit of research have come down to a couple of smaller sized options and would appreciate some feedback:
Like: Design & Size (100%)
Concern: Heat-up time - 40+ mins
Like: Design & Size (75%) & heated group head for fast heat-up - 10 mins
Concern: Only one portafilter supplied
Not overly fussed in having to plan ahead the 40+ mins for a coffee, nor using a timer as don't always have coffee at a regular time of the day....... but the Appartamento does look very stylish.
As neither of the machines have an insulated boiler, do they get very hot to touch and is this transferred to the counter top ? ....as the machine will be on a corner bench on a man-made stone bench-top with some wall cupboards above.
I am assuming both will make good espresso from what I have researched.
Any thoughts on these two would be appreciated, or any other options I should consider ?
Hey Downunder55, welcome along.
I wouldn't be concerned about heat transfer to your bench. There'll be room for airflow underneath and with the machine's feet it'd be fairly well insulated from the bench. We have ours on a hard laminate bench, and although the boiler is insulated so have no machine concerns, I'm constantly putting my portafilter down on the bench surface. I'd suspect ones portafilter is much hotter than the outside of their machine, and has given us no trouble.
The 40 minute heat up really only applies for your first coffee for the day, as long as the subsequent coffees happen within a few hours of the first. I'll let my machine heat for 40 mins in the morning, but it only needs 20 minutes when I come back to it 2 hours later. I get used to judging it by how long it takes for the boiler to get to pressure. If it's 5 minutes, I'm in for a 40 minute wait. If it's only a minute or two and there's still a bit of warmth in the e61, then much less of a wait.
Appartmento seems to be the new premium-for-space kid on the block, but without some of the traditional pitfalls of the smaller machines. Head to a sponsor and try it out. You might accidentally walk out the door with one on first visit, especially if you get a nice deal, but it really is the best way to do further research from this point, especially when it comes to determining how hot the outside of the machine will get.
Where are you located?
Thankyou for your thoughts ......... currently in Greece so time for the research, but heading home to Brisbane in a few days :-((
If you're after a compact HX, you could also consider the Lelit Mara.
It has the E61 group head (like the Rocket Appartamento and others, so has passive pre infusion which is nice to have). At 22cm wide, it is the smallest HX machine around. Another key advantage over rivals is that it now uses PID to regulate boiler pressure/temperature rather than a domestic style pressurestat. Definitely one for the short list.
Last edited by JetBlack_Espresso; 10th August 2016 at 08:01 AM.
thanks, def one to have a look at :-))
Originally Posted by JetBlack_Espresso
what at would be the wait time to make first Espresso with this one ?
Think I also read somewhere that it has an insulated boiler ?
Yes the boiler is insulated. It is similar to all HX/E61 machines in terms of heat up time. Patient types will wait the 30 minutes for heat up or get a timer. Others (and yes I occasionally fall into this category) will flush some water through the group head and make a passable flat white in 20 minutes.
I just wrote up a quick 3 week impressions review over on the BZ10 thread.
more food for thought.
To answer the heat issue. Warm sure, hot enough to transfer to the counter top - i'd say no.
VBM Domobar Junior HX would fit the bill - looks and size
Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee
FWIW, I haven't noticed that with any of the major dealers and given that there are no more at ECA until late September and that they have been in huge demand it is very likely a case of here's our price, but you can't buy one. If anything, supply and demand will push some closer to full retail.
We have a few remaining (in white) and I'd expect them all to sell this week as they're in a package deal offer with the M2D grinder. All individual sales are now going to backorder and I'd guess some with become Giotto PID sales as well.
I don't see the Mater domestic pressurestat as a weakness at all, they are just as good as a PID in a HX design and far quieter and more reactive than a commercial pressurestat. In my opinion, the Rocket has an edge on accessibility and internal layout, so as usual, roundabouts and swings by brand....Punters get sucked in by commercial thinking it equals longevity. This is definitely not always the case.
As always, the best way to select the right machine is by sampling it in the metal. Looking inside is also a bonus as there sure are some dog's breakfasts out there...
Mater are fine in that they do the same job, are more reactive and quieter. There was a bad batch a few years ago, but that seems to be over.
I see a PID as a gimmick when employed in a HX machine. The cynic in me sees a person looking for an espresso machine. They read PID in the context of dual boiler and think "I gotta have me one of them". What they fail to realise is water on a quick journey through a tube (HX) in a boiler is not going to be influenced significantly by a degree or two up or down of the entire boiler. PID in a multi boiler- absolutely. In a HX, it's to get punters to click the buy button.
Commercial pressurestats? Yep- no reason not to, but again marketing. Joe Average thinks "Ahh, commercial. Must be better".. It's not a longevity thing. It's a sales thing. It's why VBM did it in the Domobar Junior, coupled with that period that all domestic pids were rubbish except for the Campini ones- they were live and I still rate them as having delivered the best dose of 230V I have ever been administered. Never again.
You may also have noticed that the Linea Mini you recently sold also uses a Mater....
Thank you Chris and Paul. Your discussion above has been very informative.