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    Another recommend me a machine thread

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I'm in the market to upgrade my Bes920 and Smart grinder. Although I have a budget in mind, I prefer the right combo for the job over a set budget, so don't get put off by the category this thread is in. My day to day use is nothing out of the ordinary (4 - 5 shots) and I get pretty good coffee from my Behmor roasted beans and Breville gear. The driver for the new combo is that once a week I have a few people over and find myself needing to pump out 9 or 10 coffees and hot chocolates in a row. My Breville gear has been up to the job but it is starting to take way too long to make that many coffees and I would like some time back with my guests. Mid 30sec for a double shot grind and near 2min to foam milk for 1 cup. My equipment has been well loved and probably over worked, so any recommendations?

    Speed, reliability and low noise are the requirements.

    Thanks in advance!!

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    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    The speed gain will only be in the grinding and steaming. Pulling a shot will be the same, unless you get a 2 group.

    So look for a grinder that grinds fast.

    Most "traditional" HX or DB machines will have quicker steaming than the breville, especially with tips tact have larger overall hole area for more steam flow. Although it will be a bit trickier getting great microfoam.

    Cheers
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    Thanks artman and Paul. I've looked at plenty of buyer guides and researched as much as I can but my question is really around pumping out 10 maybe 15 of a mix of coffee and chocolates one after the other, are all machines going to back up and be consistent time and time again? Do some machines foam quicker and better or after a certain price is the cost all in aesthetics? Is any going to be more reliable long term? I want to try to narrow down my selection before I go too far down any one track.

    As far as the grinder goes I have been keeping my eye on the talk around the E5 and M4D. Both sound like they pump out a good quick shot and are in a reasonable price range. Unless I'm missing something I don't know if I would need to go to anything better than either of those?
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    Gday Dan,
    I understand your pain I used to have a sunbeam em 6910 and then a 7000. The time to texture the milk was terrible.

    As Paul and art said if you move to a High end HX or DB you will notice a massive difference. I have a pro500 and can texture a 300ml jug before my shot has finished extraction with a 4 hole tip.

    As for grind time my compak k3 will dose a VST 20g in approximately 20 seconds which I don't think is too bad. But, if you want very fast, but consistent your in the conical burr world.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boggas View Post

    As for grind time my compak k3 will dose a VST 20g in approximately 20 seconds which I don't think is too bad. But, if you want very fast, but consistent your in the conical burr world.
    note: macap m4d ( flat burr ) is about 10.5 seconds for 18 gm dose, 7.5s for single dose ~8.5g

    reason for edit: Sorry i rushed my earlier figures
    Last edited by brettreaby; 28th August 2016 at 05:39 AM.
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    Have a look at the Profitec Pro T64 too. My T64 at home is dosing an 18g VST in 6.4 sec!

    charlie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boggas View Post
    Gday Dan,
    I understand your pain I used to have a sunbeam em 6910 and then a 7000. The time to texture the milk was terrible.

    As Paul and art said if you move to a High end HX or DB you will notice a massive difference. I have a pro500 and can texture a 300ml jug before my shot has finished extraction with a 4 hole tip.

    ....
    For sure! The Pro 500 has a 2.1l boiler regulated with a Sirai pstat(=reliability) and so does a great job of supplying enough steam for the 4 hole steam tip(=speed). Like other modern HX machines in this category it also has a well mounted vibe pump(=low noise).

    charlie
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    +1 for Profitec T64. Likewise 18g in under 7 seconds in my setup.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetBlack_Espresso View Post
    Have a look at the Profitec Pro T64 too. My T64 at home is dosing an 18g VST in 6.4 sec!

    charlie
    Wow I didn't realise planar burrs could reach these dose times......... (And upgraditis sets in )

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Another recommend me a machine thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Boggas View Post
    Wow I didn't realise planar burrs could reach these dose times......... (And upgraditis sets in )
    Course they can. Don't want to enable your upgraditis, but just think - if you've got 80mm+ burrs spinning at 1000+rpm you're gonna get your double shot in pretty quick time. Even something like a Super Jolly is <12sec/ double!!
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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Think about workflow as well dan77 when making your decision. Volumetric dosing could be handy when making a large number of drinks in a short time, especially as you'd be used to using that feature in your Breville.

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    Thanks everyone for your input. I have certainly been considering the Pro 500 as well as the Rocket Appartmento and ECM Mech. I really wanted the Izzo Valexia Duetto but can't justify the spend for my basic use. I'm more a set and forget user, cool touch is advantageous since I have young nephew and niece wanting to help sometimes.

    I think the Bezzera DG is quite a funky looking machine but I have not seen too much about them. Thoughts?

    On the lower end of the price range, how does the Vibiemme Domobar Junior and Bezzera BZ10 stack up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dan77 View Post
    I have certainly been considering the Pro 500 as well as the Rocket Appartmento....
    The internal build quality of the Appartamento has convinced me. Streets ahead of the Bezzera compact stuff (and without the $$$$ in proprietory Bezzera parts bills). Internal layout and serviceability also blows the VBM into the weeds, though it (VBM) continues to be my bang for buck choice in the <$2.5k bracket.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boggas View Post
    Wow I didn't realise planar burrs could reach these dose times......... (And upgraditis sets in )
    You wanna see what a Mazzer Major and similar planar grinders do... Think <3 sec doubles...
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Volumetric dosing could be handy when making a large number of drinks in a short time, especially as you'd be used to using that feature in your Breville.
    I'm not a fan of volumetrics for home machines. Way better to watch shots and learn..

    Also, think $$$ repair bills when a touch pad or control goes pop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Think about workflow as well dan77 when making your decision. Volumetric dosing could be handy when making a large number of drinks in a short time, especially as you'd be used to using that feature in your Breville.
    I've been using manual function so that I have the control over the shot. The shot timer is a good feature and probably something I'll want with the new machine.

    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    BZ10 is a great entry level HX but after experiencing the Mara I'm no longer recommending it. The Mara is a little champion.
    I haven't really warmed to the Lelit machines for some reason. The Mara is the nicest of all of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    The internal build quality of the Appartamento has convinced me. Streets ahead of the Bezzera compact stuff (and without the $$$$ in proprietory Bezzera parts bills). Internal layout and serviceability also blows the VBM into the weeds, though it (VBM) continues to be my bang for buck choice in the <$2.5k bracket.
    How important is serviceability for an end user? Is that more around cost for service? Is there anything else that the Appartmento has or VBM does not have? Sorry for all of the questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dan77 View Post
    How important is serviceability for an end user? Is that more around cost for service? Is there anything else that the Appartmento has or VBM does not have? Sorry for all of the questions.
    Yes- easier for us to service = lower service charges for the end user.

    The Appartamento has cool touch wands, easy jug (rather than funnel) fill. The internal design and build quality along with external finish is the best I have seen in this price bracket and that includes all competitor brands with similar offers including VBM.
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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Yes- easier for us to service = lower service charges for the end user.

    The Appartamento has cool touch wands, easy jug (rather than funnel) fill. The internal design and build quality along with external finish is the best I have seen in this price bracket and that includes all competitor brands with similar offers including VBM.
    Plus it looks sexy.
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    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    The internal build and layout of the Profitecs and ECMs are excellent from all accounts I've read, it's why I bought an ECM, for its serviceability. Well worth chatting to one of the sponsors that range them about their thoughts on it. I reckon they take it to the Appartmento for value and finish, but of course, that's one subjective opinion amongst many.

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    I'm not a fan of volumetrics for home machines. Way better to watch shots and learn..

    Also, think $$$ repair bills when a touch pad or control goes pop.
    It's a fair point, but if you're buying a new machine from a reputable brand you'd be hoping your touch pad lasts as long as any other part on your machine. Wouldn't you? What's this like in the real world Chris? Do you see the electronics that run a volumetric system fail more than other parts of machines?
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    The internal build and layout of the Profitecs and ECMs are excellent from all accounts I've read....
    G'day readeral,

    I was referring specifically to Appartamento competitors: i.e compact circa $2.5k HX. To the best of my recollection, the contenders are from VBM, Lelit, Bezzera and Rocket. I've seen them all and sold them all. Of these, I rate the build and finish of the Rocket most highly.

    LeroyC

    We have replaced control boards and touchpads in volumetric machines and they are universally exxy- so they don't last as long as the machines!
    Last edited by TC; 27th August 2016 at 05:16 PM.
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    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    G'day readeral,

    I was referring specifically to Appartamento competitors: i.e compact circa $2.5k HX. To the best of my recollection, the contenders are from VBM, Lelit, Bezzera and Rocket. I've seen them all and sold them all. Of these, I rate the build and finish most highly.
    I'd put the ECM Mechanika in that list of competitors, judging by ordinarily available price price, but sure, within the range that you carry Appartamento has certainly got the goods. That being said I'd probably get an Appartamento myself if I was choosing in that price range.

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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    I'd put the ECM Mechanika in that list of competitors..
    I eliminated as it's much larger than all of the other contenders. I'd compare it with larger form factor gear such as Expobar, Profi et el

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    LeroyC

    We have replaced control boards and touchpads in volumetric machines and they are universally exxy- so they don't last as long as the machines!
    Ok so it's definitely a factor worth taking into consideration, but probably not a big enough issue to totally eliminate this feature from a list of desirables. When you think about all that heat, water and pressure the electrics in all coffee machines do well to last as long as they do.
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    From a similar position, I ended up with an SAB Nobel and Eureka Mignon grinder for ~2.5k.
    For an extra few $$ I could have gotten a Quamar Q50 grinder.
    Volumetric shots and a capable grinder.
    Something to consider.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    I eliminated as it's much larger than all of the other contenders. I'd compare it with larger form factor gear such as Expobar, Profi et el
    I'll concede that. I guess I didn't have a refined definition of which are the direct competitors (as academic a discussion as that might be) and missed your modifier of 'compact'. My apologies. I was merely attempting to say that they compare in build quality for $$ value, not really for footprint. The OP was comparing considering the Pro 500, Appartamento and ECM Mech, so I wanted to clarify (in response to your comment about how it blows build quality of other machines into the weeds) that the ECMs and Profitecs had a similar high quality build - even if I do lump them unhelpfully with smaller machines. I guess Dan77 can weigh it up for himself. If Dan77 wants a smaller footprint, all power to him!

    In reality, given he's now got a shortlist, the best next step is to walk into a shop with an option or two on the bench. Talk Coffee is of course as good a place as any of our Melbourne sponsors, there are plenty of options there - and if you're in Sydney Dan, I'd personally recommend the JetBlack guys who have been excellent to me so far.
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    I reread your original post so I have rewritten my response.

    Yes, you need an HX machine.

    Plumbed in is best but you need filters, a hole in the bench and a machine that has both feed and drain (lots of HX machines don't for some reason have a drain in the drip tray for a plumbed in option. The machine may cost more as it will have a rotary pump. Plumbed in is hugely advantageous so if you can do it, then do it is my advice. If you can't then fine also, no choice.

    I have a Wega Mini Nova Classic which I bought here in Perth for $2400 just this week. Fantastic but the most important thing for you is local service so see what is near you and have a look for yourself.

    The important thing is to buy from an reputable and enthusiastic crew who will help you with any issues.

    A grinder minimum is the Rocky which I have. It takes 30 seconds to grind a double. I have just ordered a Macap MD4 grinder from Mr dodgy x as it has automated dosing and will do a double in 10 seconds. If this is important to you then you have to spend extra.
    Last edited by wattgn; 28th August 2016 at 03:14 PM. Reason: Misunderstood original post

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    Thanks everyone for your considered responses they have help me a lot. I'm not looking for compact but in saying that I have been open to all options that fit the bill.

    My summary thus far (happy to be corrected) - Talk_Coffee helped rule out the lower of the HX machines as serviceability long term is important. I'm left with 3 now the Pro500, ECM Mech and Appartmento. dodgy x mentioned Appartmento and ECM Mech are mid-range and Pro500 is high end, I'm interested in understanding why that would be the case? I'm struggling to seperate them but I haven't played around with any of them yet. On price the Appartmento is a $200 - $300 less than the Pro 500 and ECM (depending on supplier). I'm all for saving a few hundred so I guess I'll be trying to find out if the Pro 500 or ECM has a few hundred of more value or if I am splitting hairs?

    As far as the grinder goes, the T64 & E5 sounds great but on price and performance I'm leaning towards the M4D.

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    I wouldn't worry about saving a few hundred on a package. Just for goodness sake don't make some silly mistake that means you're going to want to sell what you just bought.

    The important thing is to make sure you know what specs you want i.e. plumbed in or not, boiler size (2L boiler better but bigger), footprint of machine and grinder (take the measurements and make sure you have room). Again, person/company supplying machine are hopefully nearby for help. Mind you some people live far away in the country anyway but if you live in the city, it is different.

    HX machines can vary in price and the differences can be hard to pickup, after all, they're E61 heads and there is a sameness to them. I'm not really an expert on all the components of a machine but all the machines offered here are high quality, Copper or SS boilers, lots of copper lines, lovely SS covers and maybe chassis, 4kg E61 heads (probably from same factory).

    Finally eyes on machine before you buy just for a final going over before you purchase.

    OK all this with wife...
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    Senior Member Brewster's Avatar
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    Hi Dan77.
    I've been following this discussion with much interest. Having been where you are now, I know how difficult is to make the right decision when spending a rather large chunk of cash.
    There has been some good advice given in this and other threads but most of us have experienced only a limited range of machines and most have been very happy with their individual choices and accordingly are happy to recommend on that basis.
    Ultimately, there is only so much research you can do on the web or in forums like this. It's your money and you need to be completely satisified that you are making the right choice for you.
    In my opinion, it's now time for you to get into a specialty retailer and get a close up look and feel of the range of machines on your short list. None better than the two site sponsers that are within 1 - 1.5 hrs drive from your location (if I have googled correctly). It will be well worth the drive and time spent talking 1 on 1.

    Good luck with your choice.
    Mal
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Congrats on that gear. Very nice
    Volumetric shots are a big no no for me. After a little training I teach people to extract by colour, not time. You'll find that's the norm for home baristas.
    Cheers, Paul
    Fair enough. I much prefer the convenience of the volumetric. One day maybe I'll get into extracting by colour. Can experiment with my machine though!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
    Fair enough. I much prefer the convenience of the volumetric. One day maybe I'll get into extracting by colour. Can experiment with my machine though!
    Volumetric dosing is a matter of convenience. It means you can start the shot and forget about it. This is uber convenient with commercial setups or where you are doing a lot of shots. Most home users are only doing a few shots a day so it makes less sense but then if you have a lot of people over it can be handy.

    I think it is more handy to have automation on the grinder as whether you are doing one shot or ten, the advantage is the same and the weights should be close.

    The trouble with automating shots is that you may need a few before getting it right as it can be affected by the age of the bean, humidity and temperature.

    It is a nice feature to have as you can choose to use it or not. You pay for it though in the purchase price and the complexity of the machine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    Volumetric dosing is a matter of convenience. It means you can start the shot and forget about it. This is uber convenient with commercial setups or where you are doing a lot of shots. Most home users are only doing a few shots a day so it makes less sense but then if you have a lot of people over it can be handy.

    I think it is more handy to have automation on the grinder as whether you are doing one shot or ten, the advantage is the same and the weights should be close.

    The trouble with automating shots is that you may need a few before getting it right as it can be affected by the age of the bean, humidity and temperature.

    It is a nice feature to have as you can choose to use it or not. You pay for it though in the purchase price and the complexity of the machine.
    My grinder has a timer as well, so I use that.
    To be honest, I need to spend some time doing some cupping courses but I'm not at the point where I'm able to taste the difference from day to day and I do prefer the convenience of the volumetric. Different strokes for different folks and that's what I like.

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    Realise this is starting to get off-topic about volumetric shots.... one big advantage of a timed grinder + volumetric shots is for "mixed" households... i.e. one coffee geek and one coffee drinker. The geek can dose by weight, extract by weight, time, and colour; then programme these in and leave it up to the drinker to make his or her own shots themselves and still end up with a good consistency. The "WAF" is high on this one!

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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    It's great to see you narrowing in.
    The Pro500 has the edge over the others because of build quality, a commercial pressure stat, a very quiet vibe pump and great temp stability.
    The Aus agent went to Italy and had changes made for the AUS spec unit to improve temp stability to make it best in class.
    Build quality is A1 and the pump is almost as quiet as a rotary. I had a guy here today to buy my ex-demo Domus Galatea. He walked out with the Pro500. This happens again and again.
    Now you have narrowed down, take a trip to some showrooms to experience all 3 machines. In the end, only you can decide. They're all great machines. I would keep the Lelit Mara on the list. That's worth seeing.
    Cheers, Paul
    I reckon it uses the same vibe pump as most other machines (Ulka EX5)? It is the mounting brackets that make the difference in noise insulation.

    As per: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5ru_-VcTLw

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    Hello fellow coffee snobs,

    I am contemplating a Breville 'Oracle' - BES980BSS machine. Does anyone own one of these, and if so, what is your view on it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CJPOTTER View Post
    Hello fellow coffee snobs,

    I am contemplating a Breville 'Oracle' - BES980BSS machine. Does anyone own one of these, and if so, what is your view on it?
    Seriously? If you'd looked a few cm's further down the page from this thread (Six threads down.) you'd have seen this one: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...-bes980xl.html 15 pages containing 717 posts about the Oracle.


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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    Plumbed in is hugely advantageous
    Its more convenient once installed but you're overstating it. Plumbed in has its drawbacks as well, machine is locked into one spot being the most obvious. Fittings coming lose flooding your kitchen is another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    Its more convenient once installed but you're overstating it. Plumbed in has its drawbacks as well, machine is locked into one spot being the most obvious. Fittings coming lose flooding your kitchen is another.
    Fittings coming loose flooding your kitchen!!!! What the?!! Did Frank Spencer install it or something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    Its more convenient once installed but you're overstating it. Plumbed in has its drawbacks as well, machine is locked into one spot being the most obvious. Fittings coming lose flooding your kitchen is another.
    I take it yours isn't plumbed in!

    Yes, it could leak but a risk worth taking. I haven't had a leak since it was put in 11years ago.

    The thing is we have lovely filtered water sediment free thanks to the micron filter, taint free thanks to the carbon filter. After the t piece to the machine I have an water softening cartridge.

    It is a pleasure not running out of water or having to empty the drip tray.

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    Filling the tank and emptying the drop tray isn't a big deal. Like I said you are overstating its advantage. Nice to have in the right environment but not essential.

    I also have nicely filtered water, I can fill a glass for a drink or fill a jug and top up the espresso machine. I can also pack up my machine and take it on holiday, bit more difficult to do that with a plumbed in machine.

    Pros and cons. Just trying to bring balance to your claims.
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Fittings coming loose flooding your kitchen!!!! What the?!! Did Frank Spencer install it or something.
    It happens.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    Filling the tank and emptying the drop tray isn't a big deal. Like I said you are overstating its advantage. Nice to have in the right environment but not essential.

    I also have nicely filtered water, I can fill a glass for a drink or fill a jug and top up the espresso machine. I can also pack up my machine and take it on holiday, bit more difficult to do that with a plumbed in machine.

    Pros and cons. Just trying to bring balance to your claims.
    Not difficult at all, just unscrew the inlet hose and your away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logga View Post
    Not difficult at all, just unscrew the inlet hose and your away.
    Yes, you could do that. I have had two machines plumbed in the Bezzera BZ40 which weighs over 30kg I think and this Wega Mini Nova Classic which weighs 25kg. It isn't just whether it is plumbed in but the size and weight and plumbed in models are bigger anyway.

    If I had the money for a spare house for holidays, I'd buy a Silvia. If you're going away say in a caravan then a Silvia is as big you would want.

    It should go without saying it is easier day to day to have the machine plumbed in. You can run all the water you want through it for whatever reason, no drip tray to empty and if you have guests over, it makes life much easier. I had the tank ones before and I'd never go back to one. If I had no choice though then I could live with it, no problem. Lots of people here on the forum have no choice regarding plumbing it in and life goes on.
    Logga likes this.

  44. #44
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    Hi All,

    Similar position to Dan. Have BES920 from 2011 paired with Smart Grinder. Getting a touch of upgraditis. BUT my head keeps asking - am I going to notice a significant increase in coffee quality from a apartmento, profitec, etc (ie ~$2500 machine)? From what I can see, the build quality of the BES is def. inferior, but in terms of temp / pressure stability its pretty good. The e61 grouphead may provide superioir thermal stability, but the HX aspect - how can that compare to a thermostat controlled boiler?

    Help me shut the voices up!

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by howser999 View Post
    Hi All,

    Similar position to Dan. Have BES920 from 2011 paired with Smart Grinder. Getting a touch of upgraditis. BUT my head keeps asking - am I going to notice a significant increase in coffee quality from a apartmento, profitec, etc (ie ~$2500 machine)? From what I can see, the build quality of the BES is def. inferior, but in terms of temp / pressure stability its pretty good. The e61 grouphead may provide superioir thermal stability, but the HX aspect - how can that compare to a thermostat controlled boiler?

    Help me shut the voices up!
    You never upgrade really to get better coffee, I don't think so anyway. That is not unless you have a crap thermoblock machine or something really cheap.

    From a practical point of view, of course, just keep it until it dies which may not be too long to wait. I think you'd be going well to get five years out of such a machine.

    That is the issue though, if you get a prosumer level machine, it may not die for decades and when it does, you just replace the part and keep going. It will also sell for a good price and look great in your kitchen all the while.

    I'm not a huge fan of dual boiler machines, not that there is anything wrong with them, but I like simple. Nothing simpler than a HX machine with an E61 head. The dual boiler also means more parts to go wrong and a more expensive machine. If you want to have total control over temperature and you like experimenting with temperature then it is the only way to go. Everyone is different.

    You are doing what lots of people do including myself, you start off with a consumer type machine and grinder then join a forum and soon want more.

    I should suggest restraint on your part and responsibility. I won't though, just go out and get good stuff. The sponsors on the site will help you spend your money (wisely).

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    Quote Originally Posted by howser999 View Post
    Hi All,

    Similar position to Dan. Have BES920 from 2011 paired with Smart Grinder. Getting a touch of upgraditis. BUT my head keeps asking - am I going to notice a significant increase in coffee quality from a apartmento, profitec, etc (ie ~$2500 machine)? From what I can see, the build quality of the BES is def. inferior, but in terms of temp / pressure stability its pretty good. The e61 grouphead may provide superioir thermal stability, but the HX aspect - how can that compare to a thermostat controlled boiler?

    Help me shut the voices up!

    The pressure profile of the E61 group head (with in-built passive pre-infusion) paired with a vibe pump is very forgiving and can often be the difference between a great shot and a sink shot. A well designed HX with E61 group head is very temperature stable.

    charlie
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetBlack_Espresso View Post
    The pressure profile of the E61 group head (with in-built passive pre-infusion) paired with a vibe pump is very forgiving and can often be the difference between a great shot and a sink shot. A well designed HX with E61 group head is very temperature stable.

    charlie
    Well, I agree. Mind you I have only owned my Wega for a week. The Mini Nova Classic has a rotary pump with E61 head. It always seems to turn out a good shot, almost impossible not too. Like most users I only have the hardware I own for a comparison, the previous the Bezzera BZ40 which was a great machine also.

    It is fair enough mentioning the pre-infusion and that. It all happens behind the scenes in that lovely E61 head. I'd say though it is probably easier to pull a good shot on the new machine and that probably is due to the pre-infusion. I have yet to see evidence of any channeling in the puck and it always produces a solid well formed puck as though it has had a high roughage vegan diet.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by howser999 View Post
    Hi All,

    Similar position to Dan. Have BES920 from 2011 paired with Smart Grinder. Getting a touch of upgraditis. BUT my head keeps asking - am I going to notice a significant increase in coffee quality from a apartmento, profitec, etc (ie ~$2500 machine)? From what I can see, the build quality of the BES is def. inferior, but in terms of temp / pressure stability its pretty good. The e61 grouphead may provide superioir thermal stability, but the HX aspect - how can that compare to a thermostat controlled boiler?

    Help me shut the voices up!
    Hi Howser
    I doubt that you would notice a great deal of difference between a well made brew on your current setup and on an E61 machine. I used to get great coffee out of a little Sunbeam Cafe Roma - it just took 1/2 hour to make!

    However, having said that, E-61 style machines are much more forgiving if you don't get everything quite right – it is very hard to choke one for example if you grind a little fine or slightly overdose. Also, making back to back brews is much quicker, as you can pull shots and steam milk at the same time (if you can be bothered), the steaming is much faster and there is very little time required for the machine to recover so you can go again. And, as mentioned, longevity will be much better and parts are fairly cheap and readily available.

    I think the other advice is sound. Keep your current setup as long as you can, until it dies. Perhaps save for a better grinder first (you will notice more difference with a new grinder and current machine than new machine and current grinder, and a good grinder will last you many many years) and then just wait for the 'appliance pop' … !!

    Cheers Matt
    Dimal, magnafunk and KopiV like this.

  49. #49
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    Thanks for the advice everyone.

    I think Ill go the path of grinder upgrade (but for the love of god, where are the digital timed grinders for <$900!!!) then wait for my machine to reach its use by date.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by howser999 View Post
    Thanks for the advice everyone.

    I think Ill go the path of grinder upgrade (but for the love of god, where are the digital timed grinders for <$900!!!)
    Where are they for $500? I'll buy a semi load... In fact where are they for $250? I'll buy 2 semi loads



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