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Thread: Decent Espresso Machines (DE1) - Any thoughts?

  1. #1101
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    Yeah,

    It's good to see comercial appliances with cords attached properly tagged and tested...Whilst the tags look daggy, I've gotten used to seeing them and I kind of like to see them they reassure me everything is safe and properly tested.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by bigdaddy; 20th March 2018 at 02:28 PM. Reason: spelling

  2. #1102
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    You'd hope so. Some of the blokes i have seen testing appliances would even make a kettle nervous.

  3. #1103
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy View Post
    Yeah,

    It's good to see comercial appliances with cords attached properly tagged and tested...Whilst the tags look daggy, I've gotten used to seeing them and I kind of like to see them they reassure me everything is safe and properly tested.

    Cheers.
    It's quite standard operating procedure for equipment at exhibitions or for shop fit-outs in a mall for the machines to have a megger test before they turn the power on. I'm quite certain the test is primarily for the benefit of the organiser/mall operator as a tripped main box RCD would cut all power to all exhibitors/tenants and be very embarrassing and troublesome.

    I guess you could also say that it "certifies" the equipment but I do not think that is why they do it. If a machine fails an earth leakage test then something basic is wrong.
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  4. #1104
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    Schedule change:

    We're at Five Senses at 8am on Thursday (not wednesday as I mistakenly wrote)

    Rao got it right:
    https://www.scottrao.com/blog/2018/2/26/decent-mice

    ---

    As to getting into the MICE show, I don't have any insight. Barista Hustle has obtained our passes, that's all I know. Sorry.

    Here's the MICE web site:
    Melbourne International Coffee Expo (MICE)

  5. #1105
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    DE1+ sighting in VancouverÖ

    DE1+ sighting in VancouverÖ

    IMG_20180318_104253.jpg
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    Beating a previous record



    Here's Matt Perger trying different puck preparation techniques, and watching the resulting shot on the DE1+. By making a constant flow show, he can see if different techniques are resulting in a better coffee puck (and thus a better shot). Higher pressure, and more gentle erosion (pressure decrease curve) are the goal.

    Big surprise, both Matt and were yesterday finding that nutating (this is a slightly rotated tamping technique) consistently improved the puck

    Note: the video contains some rude language.

  7. #1107
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    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post


    Here's Matt Perger trying different puck preparation techniques, and watching the resulting shot on the DE1+. By making a constant flow show, he can see if different techniques are resulting in a better coffee puck (and thus a better shot). Higher pressure, and more gentle erosion (pressure decrease curve) are the goal.

    Big surprise, both Matt and were yesterday finding that nutating (this is a slightly rotated tamping technique) consistently improved the puck

    Note: the video contains some rude language.
    Ah wow! Very interesting regarding nutation, in what sense did it produce a better shot (according to the graph), was it just a more even flow through the puck? I know he used it in comps but then later spoke against using it in general..

    Might just ask you guys in person tomorrow anyways if i catch you hehe

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    The start of HB's review

    31989_nakedshot.jpg

    Damian Scisci took this lovely photo of an espresso bouncing off the built in mirror lip on his DE1+ espresso machine.

    In separate news, Tom Chips of Home Barista has indicated that heíll be writing an extensive review in the future, but heís also posting his impressions as he goes.

    As Home Barista is a forum, youíll find TomCís posts mixed with a wide variety of user comments (and rambles <smile>)
    https://www.home-barista.com/espress...ro-t51565.html
    Last edited by decentespresso; 25th March 2018 at 10:52 AM.
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  9. #1109
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    Promoting Transparency

    clear.jpg

    At the MICE trade show in Australia, one of our two espresso machines sported a clear acrylic case. Quite a few people indicated they'd like their Decent machine to be clear too.

    At the moment, this was done as a one-off, and the case was quite expensive. I'm looking into whether we can offer this as an option in the future.

    For now, it's useful for explaining to people how the machine works.

    -john
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    Had the privilege of playing with this machine at MICE and it was one of the highlights for me.

    To walk away from the pretentiousness of Rocketís new prototype pressure profiling machine - which the rep told me would be around $11,000 - and see the $4,000 Decent with its impressive tablet display and real time feedback brought a smile to my face.

    I think this is the future, no doubt, and it now feels that coffee can have the same semi-automation as roasting which allows for a more controlled, scientific approach.

    My only reservations would be the durability of the machine and that is solely because Iím not a first adopter at $4,000. I expect a solid 10 years of loyal, largely trouble free service, from a circa $2.5k machine so Iíd be keen to hear from Decent about the build quality and thoughts on service costs. I like the fact the tablet is separate - if that goes I assume you just replace the tablet, correct?
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  11. #1111
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    yeah move over pressure profiling, it’s all about that flow rate profiling now.
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  12. #1112
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElShauno View Post
    My only reservations would be the durability of the machine and that is solely because I’m not a first adopter at $4,000. I expect a solid 10 years of loyal, largely trouble free service, from a circa $2.5k machine so I’d be keen to hear from Decent about the build quality and thoughts on service costs. I like the fact the tablet is separate - if that goes I assume you just replace the tablet, correct?
    With tablets getting better every year, I thought it was wise to keep it separate from the espresso machine. The software can be freely downloaded https://decentespresso.com/downloads and will run on any Android tablet (with a caveat for random hardware compatibility issues of some models).

    So yes, if your tablet died, you could buy a replacement from us, or from any other Android tablet vendor. Eventually, we'll also get full functioning versions of our software on other platforms, too.

    However, nothing can replace the "test of time", so I think you're right to be concerned.

    Over the next year, on this forum, you'll hear about people's experiences with our machines, and can likely judge its reliability--and how we conduct ourselves when there's a problem--from that.

    -john

  13. #1113
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    For some time I have thought the main issue in the future (think 10 years) for obsolescence will be the tablet and at least, Bluetooth backward compatibility. Will Bluetooth Version 9 or 10 still work with BT4.1? So just replacing a tablet in those days may not be just a simple answer. I already have older Bluetooth devices that just will not pair with more modern hardware. Unless a new main board with an updated Bluetooth chip was then available for our decade old DE1x (pretty unlikely by then) Maybe my decade old laptop running Linux will be my only answer in 2028!

  14. #1114
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    Quote Originally Posted by gc View Post
    For some time I have thought the main issue in the future (think 10 years) for obsolescence will be the tablet and at least, Bluetooth backward compatibility. Will Bluetooth Version 9 or 10 still work with BT4.1? So just replacing a tablet in those days may not be just a simple answer. I already have older Bluetooth devices that just will not pair with more modern hardware. Unless a new main board with an updated Bluetooth chip was then available for our decade old DE1x (pretty unlikely by then) Maybe my decade old laptop running Linux will be my only answer in 2028!
    That's an interesting point to make, and it's one of the reasons we used an Arduino compatible Bluetooth module. You can literally pull it out and replace it with a newer model, you don't even need to take the case off.

    Here's a photo of the plug for the module, which is in the top back of the case.

    IMG_8407.jpg

    Since we designed the DE1 2 years ago, there have been newer BLE modules released. Some have wifi and NFC built in.

    Our v1.2 DE1s will use a different BLE module, from a Seattle based company, that Ray feels is superior to our current choice.

    I expect that this Arduino expansion port standard will be around for a long time, and that we can continue to "keep up with the times" and so can our customers.

    There's also plans afoot to offer an HTML interface to the DE1, and then use the physical (group head located) buttons to turn espresso on. That should make us fairly future-proof.

    -john
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  15. #1115
    gc
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    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    That's an interesting point to make, and it's one of the reasons we used an Arduino compatible Bluetooth module. You can literally pull it out and replace it with a newer model, you don't even need to take the case off.

    Here's a photo of the plug for the module, which is in the top back of the case.

    IMG_8407.jpg

    Since we designed the DE1 2 years ago, there have been newer BLE modules released. Some have wifi and NFC built in.

    Our v1.2 DE1s will use a different BLE module, from a Seattle based company, that Ray feels is superior to our current choice.

    I expect that this Arduino expansion port standard will be around for a long time, and that we can continue to "keep up with the times" and so can our customers.
    Many thanks for your follow up on this. Very pleased with that possibility. As I'm scheduled for one of the 220V DE1+'s, I have a keen eye to the flexible modularity, and upgradeability, especially of the electronics as you improve later models. eg the BT module you mentioned here.

    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    There's also plans afoot to offer an HTML interface to the DE1, and then use the physical (group head located) buttons to turn espresso on. That should make us fairly future-proof.
    -john
    Unfortunately [or not] we don't get the buttons on the grouphead. The HTML interface sounds like a great idea.

    Have been over on HB as they are drip feeding tidbits from beta users about the actual use of the DE1+Pro. Getting hungry for user experience input now

  16. #1116
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    Quote Originally Posted by gc View Post
    Have been over on HB as they are drip feeding tidbits from beta users about the actual use of the DE1+Pro. Getting hungry for user experience input now
    While Bugs and I were away in Australia, my team back in Hong Kong got started with 20 machines at 220V, and they're all about 60% done now. Though there are Easter holidays coming up (4 day week) I hope we'll be able to ship some of these 220V machines next week.

    @gc please PM me who you are in real life and I'll prioritize you to get one of these machines.

    If anyone else reading this is also a 220V DE1+ (or DE1PRO+) buyer, send me a PM and I'll try to bump you up the queue.

    -john

  17. #1117
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    Robotic Espresso

    IMG_5900.jpg

    In Melbourne, Matt Perger introduced me to Once Alike's https://www.instagram.com/oncealike/ Liam Wilkie https://www.instagram.com/cafeenergy/

    Theyíve built an automated espresso machine using industrial robots, a modified Robur grinder, and a LM Linea espresso machine.

    Liam spent a spent some time pulling shots with the DE1+, and liked it, but Decent might be "too new" and Liam "too committed" to the Linea to make the switch now. For now, thereís just "bro love" between us.
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  18. #1118
    gc
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    Glad there's a glass case between that robot arm and me! Looks like the autodriving car equivalent in the coffee world. I'll have a soy latte god shot please.....and stand back!

  19. #1119
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    Quote Originally Posted by gc View Post
    For some time I have thought the main issue in the future (think 10 years) for obsolescence will be the tablet and at least, Bluetooth backward compatibility. Will Bluetooth Version 9 or 10 still work with BT4.1? So just replacing a tablet in those days may not be just a simple answer. I already have older Bluetooth devices that just will not pair with more modern hardware. Unless a new main board with an updated Bluetooth chip was then available for our decade old DE1x (pretty unlikely by then) Maybe my decade old laptop running Linux will be my only answer in 2028!
    Just like how people who own a McLaren F1 road care have to maintain a contemporary 1990s Compaq laptop to continue operating their vehicle!

    It's good to see this has been considered with the DE1.

  20. #1120
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodhouse View Post
    yeah move over pressure profiling, itís all about that flow rate profiling now.
    Because up to now you can only use a manual lever machine to even out (or actively tinker with) the flow "on the fly". Which is probably why my manual lever Electra (or a friend's Olympia Cremina for that matter) always made vastly better coffee than any of my other espresso machines using the same roasts at the same time. Those include (among a dozen or so others) LM Lineas, 220V & 110V GS3's, a few commercial La Cimbalis and several La Pavonis all the way down to SB 6910 /7000s and Silvias. I even fitted a slightly weaker spring to my Electra to get more feel and hence more control. Ignoring the minor fact that IMO grinders play a much more important role than a standard espresso machine anyway, I cannot see why an even (or forcibly tinkered) flow would not be a good idea. Unless someone can come up with another reason why manual lever machines do such a great job (even with fairly crappy, non standard sized baskets) I reckon it is very likely to be flow control. Certainly it is not temperature stability... The only other contender is pressure - I couldn't match the Olympia with the Strada the same friend has, and after 3 or more years he cannot either so it probably isn't pressure.

    Why do some people deride others attempts to analyse why things work and then use their data to improve things? I always thought that was how real progress worked.

    End rant.

    TampIt
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  21. #1121
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    Decent Espresso Machine Dimensions

    10000 ASSY DE1_Ver1.1 Dimension_20180329 copy.jpg
    A common tech support question we get is "how large is the DE1". Itís actually a complicated question to answer, because do they mean "with the tablet or not?" and "with the portafilter or not?"

    I asked Alex to make me a drawing that shows all the main dimensions. When seeing the machine the first time, people often exclaim that itís much smaller than they expected.

    In unrelated news, today weíre shipping our Pro Grinder to all pre-orders. Itís in stock and shipping as orders come in. I will soon be adding an option to upgrade to SSP burrs (both coated and uncoated), as those arrived from South Korea while I was in Australia last week. https://decentespresso.com/pro_grinder


    -john

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    What's the wait time once ordered ?

    Also what's the servicing like on these as if we have issues with it is it going to have to be self serviced?


    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    10000 ASSY DE1_Ver1.1 Dimension_20180329 copy.jpg
    A common tech support question we get is "how large is the DE1". Itís actually a complicated question to answer, because do they mean "with the tablet or not?" and "with the portafilter or not?"

    I asked Alex to make me a drawing that shows all the main dimensions. When seeing the machine the first time, people often exclaim that itís much smaller than they expected.

    In unrelated news, today weíre shipping our Pro Grinder to all pre-orders. Itís in stock and shipping as orders come in. I will soon be adding an option to upgrade to SSP burrs (both coated and uncoated), as those arrived from South Korea while I was in Australia last week. https://decentespresso.com/pro_grinder


    -john

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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvv View Post
    What's the wait time once ordered ?
    Our next batch of machines will start shipping in July/August.

    Quote Originally Posted by Juvv View Post
    Also what's the servicing like on these as if we have issues with it is it going to have to be self serviced?
    In each major market, we'll have a Decent repair station, which will be staffed by our own people (not resellers). This is the Tesla model, and La Marzocco's (mostly) for the Linea Mini.

    At the moment, I have these about to happen in the USA and UK, and this August, we should have one in Australia too. My mechanical engineer Ben wants to move back home (he's Australian) and we're trying to make that work, or else I'll figure something else out.

    We will also be selling all parts on our web site, in case you want to self-service or use a local repairman instead.

    -john

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    Thanks John that's good news and really shows that you are standing behind your product which is great.

    Are you guys worried a out the longevity of these machines being so digital? Where do you see these machines in 5 10 and 15 years from now , as in these actual first batch models

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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvv View Post
    Are you guys worried a out the longevity of these machines being so digital? Where do you see these machines in 5 10 and 15 years from now , as in these actual first batch models
    Of course I'm worried! It's our reputation at stake if these machines are not reliable. I've been told that many companies have had reliability disasters and prospered, but there's a survival bias to this, as I'm only told about the currently-successful companies.

    All I can do to answer your question is have you read the backlog of conversations here, so you can get a sort of feel for the care we've taken to design these machines in as high quality, and repairable, way that we can.

    But of course, we'll have made mistakes, and we'll try to do the honourable thing so that we develop a reputation as trustworthy despite the inevitable flaws that we'll all learn about. So far, the beta testers found only software bugs, and quality-control improvements we need to make to our build process.

    I don't think that "digital" makes it less reliable. Toyota cars were more digitals than GM's, and they were more reliable for it. Reliability in espresso machines seems to mostly be a question of water handling, as well as the inevitable wearing out of moving parts.

    -john
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    Respectable answer mate! I also wasn't trying to push you into a corner, I was just honestly interested and you answered with such an honest answer. Refreshing ! I'll go back and read through the thread.
    Dunno if I could wait till August for a new machine haha !

  27. #1127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvv View Post
    Respectable answer mate! I also wasn't trying to push you into a corner, I was just honestly interested and you answered with such an honest answer. Refreshing
    No worries, it's a good question.
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvv View Post
    Dunno if I could wait till August for a new machine haha !
    Yeah, I know, I wish I could speed that up but we're starting with just 4 people assembling machines, with a big backlog of orders already, and I don't want to compromise on quality by ramping up too fast or outsourcing it all.

    So far, we've learned so, so much in building our own machines, that I can't imagine how it would ever have been possible to outsource manufacturing without it being a total disaster. For a product this complex, we really need to have the designers and assemblers eating lunch together.

    -john
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    I think that's probably for the best. People are paying good money and quality is so important in this industry.

    I think with that attitude you'll go just fine with these bad boys !

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    00100dPORTRAIT_00100_BURST20180322213709930_COVER.jpg

    Australian-living-in-Canada Ben Champion is taking photos while making espresso with his DE1+. Heís got a knack for this, Iíd say.
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  30. #1130
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    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    00100dPORTRAIT_00100_BURST20180322213709930_COVER.jpg

    Australian-living-in-Canada Ben Champion is taking photos while making espresso with his DE1+. He’s got a knack for this, I’d say.
    I think you're right. Very professional photo.

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    I did a cool video for my mates cafe , it basically is him pouring a coffee but it's an unlimited pour and nothing is moving in the pic except the coffee.

    Is Ben on the forum I wanna get some feedback!

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    I'm always lurking, what do you want to know?

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    News on the drip tray

    News on the drip tray
    (and avoiding potential aluminum tarnishing)

    IMG_8422.jpg

    We received a sample of electroplated aluminum applied to our drip tray (left=electroplated, right=normal [after 3 months]).

    I vigorously rubbed the bottom of a rough ceramic mug all over the plating, which did produce micro-scratches that were visible if you really, really, really looked for them. Seems pretty durable.

    The downside is that the electroplating is not guaranteed to be food safe, so with this process, I can't recommend that people recycle the waste water from the drip tray onto their garden. There's always a compromise, it seems.

    And, I don't yet have a price quote for what this electroplating process would cost.

    -john

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    gc
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    Honestly, what is wrong with stainless steel? It works for everyone else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gc View Post
    Honestly, what is wrong with stainless steel? It works for everyone else.
    Manufacturing is often a lot slower than people realize. For these parts, 3 months is a reasonable lead time (in aluminum), once we decide to go ahead with it. For a Stainless Steel version, 4 months is the quoted delay. We've already paid about USD$10,000 for an aluminum mold, which took 2 months to make. A new mold for stainless will cost about $15,000 and take 2 months to make. These fixed costs are not trivial when you're making small quantities of a product, as we are.

    As I don't want this seemingly trivial part to stop the entire shipping schedule, we'll proceed with the aluminum drip tray covers we already have made (plus, we paid USD$7 each for 1000 of them, plus the mold cost). Thus far, one beta tester of 6 has had tarnishing/blemishes appear, so the phenomena is not necessarily universal. We will replace any tarnished ones gratis, once we have a solution in stock.

    Most other machines use punched stainless steel, which leaves sharp edges and tends to pool water droplets. We're casting metal, which is a different approach, meant to avoid that problem, but it's more expensive, and more complicated.

    If you were to look back at the extensive HB discussion about drip tray covers, you'd find that a lot of forum participants don't particularly like the current designs of drip tray covers.

    It's also not a certain thing that this design will work in Stainless, because there was a lot of hand-work to clean up mold lines, something which will be more difficult on stainless than the softer aluminum. We don't want to hold up manufacturing for a few months due to this piece, so we're considering a few alternatives.

    We're trying to solve those problems with a different design and approach, but there are bumps in the road.

    -john
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    Well what a journey! Just read every page of this thread and what a journey you guys have been on. Wish you and your team all the best John

  37. #1137
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    John,
    Re: the drip tray.
    I do appreciate the pragmatism based on the already sunk costs of the drip tray, but never thought it an issue that really needed solving, unlike the many dissatisfied commentators that you mentioned earlier. A quick wipe on the pressed SS drip tray on my HX machine never seemed too onerous. And stainless is virtually incorruptable in this use case. Aluminium will eventually suffer oxidation, pitting and staining like any aluminium cooking pots and pans unfortunately - but we always knew that. (didn't you?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by gc View Post
    John,
    Re: the drip tray.
    I do appreciate the pragmatism based on the already sunk costs of the drip tray, but never thought it an issue that really needed solving, unlike the many dissatisfied commentators that you mentioned earlier. A quick wipe on the pressed SS drip tray on my HX machine never seemed too onerous. And stainless is virtually incorruptable in this use case. Aluminium will eventually suffer oxidation, pitting and staining like any aluminium cooking pots and pans unfortunately - but we always knew that. (didn't you?)
    My assumption is that we're going to end up with stainless steel with this, but:
    1) it will likely take 4 to 6 months to move to stainless for this piece, because
    2) we might have technical challenges with removing mold "parting lines" on our thin bars.
    3) our thin bars might be too thin for stainless to flow evenly
    4) we might have to change the design in a few ways, to accommodate this different material (crossbars, thicker lines, greater spacing) and the iteration cycle is very slow.

    Various metal molding companies have called all these things out to us during the bidding process, and it took about 6 months for us to get the current-model aluminum trays to be acceptable (there's a log of previous iterations on this forum).

    My engineer Fabrice is specifically a molding specialist (he used to work for a big mold consulting company in France) and he suggests that it typically takes a year to move a part successfully to molding. ODE told me it took them 2 years to get their pump molds perfect.

    These real-world timelines, and my desire to actually ship machines in the meantime, suggest that I need to find acceptable compromises now, and slowly improve parts (and thus, the machine) over time.

    -john
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    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    My assumption is that we're going to end up with stainless steel with this, but:
    1) it will likely take 4 to 6 months to move to stainless for this piece, because
    2) we might have technical challenges with removing mold "parting lines" on our thin bars.
    3) our thin bars might be too thin for stainless to flow evenly
    4) we might have to change the design in a few ways, to accommodate this different material (crossbars, thicker lines, greater spacing) and the iteration cycle is very slow.

    Various metal molding companies have called all these things out to us during the bidding process, and it took about 6 months for us to get the current-model aluminum trays to be acceptable (there's a log of previous iterations on this forum).

    My engineer Fabrice is specifically a molding specialist (he used to work for a big mold consulting company in France) and he suggests that it typically takes a year to move a part successfully to molding. ODE told me it took them 2 years to get their pump molds perfect.

    These real-world timelines, and my desire to actually ship machines in the meantime, suggest that I need to find acceptable compromises now, and slowly improve parts (and thus, the machine) over time.

    -john
    If it pans out that your solution to this possible problem is you do go to stainless steel say in 12 months time and in the meantime customers have the aluminium tray and tarnishing is an issue...Would you automatically change that tray to stainless steel or the better solution?

    Cheers.

  40. #1140
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy View Post
    If it pans out that your solution to this possible problem is you do go to stainless steel say in 12 months time and in the meantime customers have the aluminium tray and tarnishing is an issue...Would you automatically change that tray to stainless steel or the better solution?
    If their tray had tarnished, then I'd replace it for free. If their tray had not tarnished, then it would be something the customer could choose to purchase.

    I hope you understand, that as we change (and improve) our espresso machines, we can't be offering no-cost retrofits to all previous customers, unless we're actually fixing a problem.

    -john
    herzog and simonsk8r like this.

  41. #1141
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    Thatís reasonable.
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  42. #1142
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    I understand...No manufacturer is expected to retrofit improvements to previous customers items, and you are not expected to either... That's why I asked the question "if tarnishing is an issue" No need to replace anything if there is no issue...I also like the offer for the customer to purchase a different tray if they wish...It's good to see you are willing to stand by your product...

    Cheers.

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    Decent in London: next week!

    In case anyone in Australia is flying to London next week...

    prufrock.jpg

    Mat North will be demonstrating the DE1+ at Prufrock Coffee in London, at two events (afternoon and evening), as part of the London Coffee Festival.


    Wednesday April 11th
    Free, but tickets required due to limited space.

    https://www.fcp.coffee/blog/post/a-d...ening-with-the


    Last edited by decentespresso; 5th April 2018 at 11:35 AM.

  44. #1144
    gc
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    That link didn't work for me, here or on CF in UK. Just comes up with a place holder on the site. Is url complete or truncated. I want my son in London to see the machine I'm getting and maybe stimulate his own interest.

  45. #1145
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    Quote Originally Posted by gc View Post
    That link didn't work for me, here or on CF in UK. Just comes up with a place holder on the site. Is url complete or truncated. I want my son in London to see the machine I'm getting and maybe stimulate his own interest.
    I have edited the post so that the URL is now a link. Let me know if that works better for you.

    If not, here are links directly to Prufrock:

    Afternoon: https://www.prufrockcoffee.com/booki...sso-afternoon/

    Evening: https://www.prufrockcoffee.com/booki...resso-evening/
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  46. #1146
    gc
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    Thanks for those links. The edited one still didn't work, but the others were fine.

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    matboxes.jpg

    Mat North, the cafť owner of Full Court Press https://www.fcp.coffee/ in Bristol, UK, is now in possession of the first Decent Espresso machine in the UK.

    He's going to lend his little baby (espresso machine) for a few days to Assembly Coffee https://www.assemblycoffee.co.uk/ who will have it at their booth during London Coffee Festival. Mat will also be giving two Decent demos at Prufrock on Wednesday https://www.fcp.coffee/blog/post/a-d...ening-with-the

    Mat was our first machine sent to UK/EU, and thus by a different carrier than we normally use, where it received a different kind of abuse.

    In the photos above, you can see that the cardboard box corners were pretty damaged. Thankfully, not so much as to actually tear the cardboard box open, nor to damage the suitcase inside. And the espresso machine itself is fine.

    I suspect the issue here is that the suitcase has rounded corners, which creates a weak air gap on the cardboard corners.

    Our next set of cardboard boxes are going to have duct taped corners, and we'll check in with the recipients to get photos and see if the box has survived better.


    Suitcases forever?

    We're considering permanently shipping all our espresso machines in suitcases, even after these 300 pre-sales are done.

    The reasons for this are:
    (1) the hard suitcase shell (with foam inside) has so far meant that not a single espresso machine we've shipped has been damaged in transit
    (2) when we double boxed our espresso machine, the shipping cost rose from USD$120 to USD$400 (!!) because we were penalized for over-some-magic-size boundary and charged as if the package weighed 40kg (instead of 19kg).
    (3) about half the people who thus far have received a DE1+, have taken it to local cafes and roasters, to show it off. That's really appreciated, and something we want to encourage.
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  48. #1148
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    Sounds good but my wife wants to know if the suitcases come in different colours..

    Cheers from old fart��

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    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    31989_nakedshot.jpg

    Damian Scisci took this lovely photo of an espresso bouncing off the built in mirror lip on his DE1+ espresso machine.

    In separate news, Tom Chips of Home Barista has indicated that he’ll be writing an extensive review in the future, but he’s also posting his impressions as he goes.

    As Home Barista is a forum, you’ll find TomC’s posts mixed with a wide variety of user comments (and rambles <smile>)
    https://www.home-barista.com/espress...ro-t51565.html
    Tom Chips (like many other H-B members) is an arrogant xxxx!

  50. #1150
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    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post


    Suitcases forever?

    We're considering permanently shipping all our espresso machines in suitcases, even after these 300 pre-sales are done.

    The reasons for this are:
    (1) the hard suitcase shell (with foam inside) has so far meant that not a single espresso machine we've shipped has been damaged in transit
    (2) when we double boxed our espresso machine, the shipping cost rose from USD$120 to USD$400 (!!) because we were penalized for over-some-magic-size boundary and charged as if the package weighed 40kg (instead of 19kg).
    (3) about half the people who thus far have received a DE1+, have taken it to local cafes and roasters, to show it off. That's really appreciated, and something we want to encourage.
    In My Humble Opinion...If you kept the price points on the machines the same, you did not increase them, then adding your suitcase at no cost, you'd be on a winner there...A great value item to what promises to be a very nice machine....

    Cheers.

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