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Thread: Decent Espresso Machines (DE1) - Any thoughts?

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    "It tasted better than coffee I've tasted on $20,000 or $30,000 espresso machines" (40:20)

    At this podcast:
    https://anchor.fm/jonathon-sciola/ep...Culture-e1cq54

    Veteran coffee guru and robotic crusader Liam Wilkie is interviewed on the super interesting https://www.facebook.com/Jonathonsci...-356414814159/ Melbourne Coffee Culture podcast and opines extensively about Decent Espresso (starting at 34:20), as well as many other pro topics. Well enlightening and worth listening to the entire thing.

    FWIW, we're using a 1.2 meter long stainless steel "thermocoil" to heat water.

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    It's a shame video reviews from early owners are so slow in forthcoming

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    The machines were only posted out 5 minutes ago..

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    Quote Originally Posted by mentasm View Post
    It's a shame video reviews from early owners are so slow in forthcoming
    The only video reviews I know of at the moment, are from Damian Scisci:
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF8...gcL6MIXjLe-qkg

    this written review came out yesterday from jwcrema:
    https://www.home-barista.com/espress...st-t52255.html

    -john

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    Just posted a Tariff Concession Order which could be helpful for those about to receive a Decent machine in the next few days, gets the 5% duty to zero - https://coffeesnobs.com.au/general-c...tml#post629762

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    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    Just posted a Tariff Concession Order which could be helpful for those about to receive a Decent machine in the next few days, gets the 5% duty to zero - https://coffeesnobs.com.au/general-c...tml#post629762
    Forgive my ignorance, but is it the receiver who has to submit this, or is it up to DecentEspresso and their shipping people to sort it? I've been a bit anxious [and ignorant] of any additional tax/import charges that may possibly arise. Have any Aussies received their DE yet? And any additional fees?

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    GC, the buck stops with you as the importer. Decent has no obligation as the sender and if a broker does it they are lodging on your behalf. Depending who they use for shipping they may offer a Customs Broker service (like DHL, UPS, etc) but also may not. These brokers submit thousands of different items each day and are often aren't experienced enough, paid enough or don't have the time to look for the exemptions. You want to make sure they claim this TCO - which the Decent is eligible for - otherwise you will pay the 10% GST, 5% duty and any possible AQIS fees (unlikely but Casa Espresso has recently been hit) and the brokers fees (usually $50 on items like this). This TCO will remove the 5% duty. Don't do anything till the shipping company contacts you, they may well have a broker. John may have posted who they use, if so you could ring them or it may be common knowledge here.
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    With high value items like our espresso machines, we prefer to ship DDP (duty paid) and to use a courier such as UPS or TNT (for AU shipments), who act as our agent through customs.

    That being said, I totally agree with @338 that the customs brokers don't really know much, and my experience is that they are generally happier if shipments go through faster through their system by having you pay the maximum possibly duty.

    We're just ramping up shipments globally, so we'll have to figure this out together over the next few months.

    As it happens, I yesterday spent an hour reading EU rules on software imports and duty. In the EU's case, if the software is deemed as a "good", then it's VAT and duty payable, and that happens if the software is (for example) on a CD. However, if the software is downloaded over the internet, or receives updates over the internet, then it gets classified as a service and is not then subject to import duty.

    What I don't know is how close AU law tracks EU law on this, but at any rate, it makes interesting reading.

    Here's a page on the issue:
    https://businessdatabase.indicator-f...021105/related

    Imported computer software can be treated as either a supply of goods or a supply of services, and depending on this the VAT treatment can differ. If you buy from outside the EU via a download (including by phone), this is always treated as a supply of services.
    Under the SERVICES section of this article you will find this:
    enhancements and updates of existing specific programs; and enhancements and updates of existing normalised programs supplied under contractual obligation to customers who have bought the original program.
    Thus far, espresso machines shipped to the UK have not been stopped, but 1 machine to Germany is currently being queried by customs. We'll have to wait and see, and sort it out when problems happen, with each country and each package.

    Update: German customs released the DE1+ that they held for 24h, so either they agreed with our assessment, or simply didn't feel like arguing with us about it.

    -john

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    338
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    John, not so much duty but GST (10%) has been captured on software delivered to Au clients recently as a big push has been made on this. Even applies to software as a service. So you would still be up for 10% GST, not sure of duty on software, easy to check - https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/busi/...classification


    PS Even though you say that the broker acts as your agent, in AU the broker is the agent for the importer who bears ultimate responsibility for the contents of the declaration. I assume this is due to it being easier to prosecute someone within AU than outside. Small distinction but relevant if pushing the envelope

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    Is there an approximate timeline for when a decent espresso machine with full australian compliance/certification will be made abailable?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melbroaster View Post
    Is there an approximate timeline for when a decent espresso machine with full australian compliance/certification will be made abailable?
    For full AU compliance with a testing certificate, I'd place that toward the end of 2018. First we need to redesign the group head to have a physical controller, then wait 2 months for UL compliance, then another 2 months for EU compliance certification testing. Then start the paperwork and tests for specific countries, such as AU.

    Sorry for the bad news, but this compliance stuff is slow and tedious. In the meantime, we're shipping a CE compliant machine worldwide.

    Speaking of group head controllers, we just finished the technical work for the first pass on this, and we're ordering the parts to prototype it now.

    -john

    grupc.jpg

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    Thanks John, credit to you for such a quick personal response.

    Ps. Coffeesnobs wanting a well cared for Linea Mini mark your calendars for late 2018.....
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    Our man Shin in South Korea has been visiting cafťs nonstop with his DE1+, and.... that means a cleaning of the group head parts is a good idea.

    Coffee is food, after all, and cleaning out gunk will even out the flow from the shower screen, as well as keep old coffee flavors from intruding on your fresh coffee.

    Shing made a quite hilarious, and useful English/Korean video of how he took everything apart and cleaned it.

    I know quite a few cafťs that do this every evening with their professional machines. If you're a home user, I recommend doing this when you notice that the water flowing out of the shower is uneven, which likely indicates coffee oil buildup.



    Keen eyes will notice that the brass parts look a bit ugly due to brass tarnishing. I pointed this out to Shin. He bought some brass cleaner and was pleased to see the parts restored to their like-new glory:

    preview-full-20180501_154152.jpg
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    Bad Day Coffee on the beautiful Eastern coast of Taiwan continues his amazing series of handmade Lego versions of classic espresso machines https://www.instagram.com/explore/lo...ad-day-coffee/ with a LEGO DECENT ESPRESSO MACHINE.

    His photos of classic machines he's made is amazing (I recommend browsing them as a great distraction from real work) and I'm so flattered to be part of his collection.

    lego-de1.jpg
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    screen 2018-05-07 at 12.42.52 PM.jpg

    I was asked this question via tech support today, and I thought Iíd share my answer.

    This is a very advanced barista technique, so I donít expect most people to need it, but it emerged with my working 1:1 with Matt Perger, and it was the cleanest solution to a set of real coffee making problems, with a very particular technique in espresso making.

    -john

    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    In sentence form, "rise" means "if time runs out on this preinfusion step, and we havenít hit the pressure indicated above, please add a short step after preinfusion, with the flow on max, in order to get pressure to this number. End this short step as soon as this pressure is reached".

    Imagine a barista saying "I want preinfusion to compress the puck to at least 4 bar, but I also donít want preinfusion taking more than 20 seconds to do so". RISE guarantees 4 bar as the preinfusion steps end and the shot progresses.

    I know, thereís a lot of concepts packed into RISE.

    ps: I find RISE to be hugely useful for preinfusion rates under 2 ml/s. Itís pretty much impossible for me to pull those shots otherwise. With those slow preinfusion flow rates, virtually no pressure is created, and so Iím using time to end preinfusion, with a "slam flow to max" short step to compress the puck. Iím trying to automate what Iíve seen some baristas do with paddles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    screen 2018-05-07 at 12.42.52 PM.jpg

    I was asked this question via tech support today, and I thought Iíd share my answer.

    This is a very advanced barista technique, so I donít expect most people to need it, but it emerged with my working 1:1 with Matt Perger, and it was the cleanest solution to a set of real coffee making problems, with a very particular technique in espresso making.

    -john

    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

    In sentence form, "rise" means "if time runs out on this preinfusion step, and we havenít hit the pressure indicated above, please add a short step after preinfusion, with the flow on max, in order to get pressure to this number. End this short step as soon as this pressure is reached".

    Imagine a barista saying "I want preinfusion to compress the puck to at least 4 bar, but I also donít want preinfusion taking more than 20 seconds to do so". RISE guarantees 4 bar as the preinfusion steps end and the shot progresses.

    I know, thereís a lot of concepts packed into RISE.

    ps: I find RISE to be hugely useful for preinfusion rates under 2 ml/s. Itís pretty much impossible for me to pull those shots otherwise. With those slow preinfusion flow rates, virtually no pressure is created, and so Iím using time to end preinfusion, with a "slam flow to max" short step to compress the puck. Iím trying to automate what Iíve seen some baristas do with paddles.
    I occasionally do something similar to this, although it's usually in respose to a puck preparation issue or old beans (from which there is too little CO2 coming out of solution).

    The concept of "rise" is perhaps a bit vague. Something like "ensure min. preinfusion pressure is reached." perhaps?

    I'm very curious to see if machines like the DE1+ will change the way people think about pressure and flow, and the relationship between them.

    Still not sure if the concept of "puck compression" captures the whole situation. Some literature refers to "consolidation", which I understand includes the impact of what is usually described as "fines migration": https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...60877414004737

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrJack View Post
    I occasionally do something similar to this, although it's usually in respose to a puck preparation issue or old beans (from which there is too little CO2 coming out of solution). The concept of "rise" is perhaps a bit vague. Something like "ensure min. preinfusion pressure is reached." perhaps?

    I'm very curious to see if machines like the DE1+ will change the way people think about pressure and flow, and the relationship between them.

    Still not sure if the concept of "puck compression" captures the whole situation. Some literature refers to "consolidation", which I understand includes the impact of what is usually described as "fines migration": https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...60877414004737
    I agree with everything you've written, and would just note:

    - there's not enough space on the tablet for a detailed explanation. If you can propose a different word that's better, I have no attachment to "rise", I just couldn't find better. I use "rise" because "rise and hold" are the words I use to describe the 2nd stage of a pressure profile. My intention is to make a video explaining the whole thing, pulling actual shots. Eventually, hopefully, proper coffee people will make better videos than me

    - regarding "not sure... captures the whole situation." I completely agree, and if you were to look at screen pics on this forum from two years ago, you would have seen "guarantee" as the label there, and an additional checkbox-optional step for "compress". I really didn't like having two separate controls, both for advanced users only, and when Perger visited me here I spent a good part of the day on this with him, we came up with a consolidated "rise" checkbox concept.

    The fundamental problem is that this feature performs two different functions, depending on what the barista intended:

    1) if beans or puck prep were imperfect, and you'd like the machine to correct (that's your example)

    2) the flow rate is intentionally set low enough (say, <2 ml/s) such that pressure >1 bar will never be reached, and you would like the machine to time out preinfusion, then compress the puck, then continue the shot.

    #2 is the case for me when I make my version of "Slayer shots", with a 37 second preinfusion and a rise to 4 bar, followed by a 12s hold step. I know this sounds insane, but it makes great coffee.

    Mark @ Synesso made me an insanely great shot at his factory some years ago, which did something crazy like this, so (a) I learned something that day about "received wisdom" in espresso recipes and (b) I'm not sure we should call these things "slayer shots", anyway. Though it's possible to make shots like this on a Slayer, it's shall-we-say "not common" and my first successful taste of this approach was from a Synesso.

    -john

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    DE1PRO News

    catering2.jpg

    We've been shipping DE1PRO machines to customers, but without the plumbing kit, as we haven't quite nailed it yet. At the MICE conference, I was able to heavily stress our beta plumbing kit, and found issues with minor leaking, due to the tubing not being thick enough to prevent kinks.

    I didn't want to delay the PRO users from getting their machines, so we've been sending them not-plumbed-in drip trays, and will follow up with a package of the parts they need to plumb in, once I'm confident of our design.

    People want to supply their espresso machines two different ways: with pressurized water, and from a water tank. For this reason, we "externalized" the plumbing kit, providing two different versions. PRO users will receive both kits, to use the one appropriate for their situation.

    Professional machines generally only plumb with pressurized water, and require a "flow jet" to be purchased if you're using a tank, to recreate the pressurized water situation.

    At MICE, we witnessed one vendor completely burn their machine out in 24h when their flow jet failed, and they didn't notice (thereby burning their pump out).

    No flow jet is required with our setup.

    With the "Catering kit" (for water tanks) the DE1PRO sends power to the external pump to automatically top up our 2-liter water tank.

    Two other reasons to keep this kit external:
    - if your water is dirty, you'll jam the external pump, which is easily replaced. This happened to me 2 years ago, when I stayed at an AirBnb that had kittens, and cat hair got into my water source.
    - if you burn out the external pump, it's easily replaced.

    So.... photos below of the latest iteration of the plumbing kit. This version hopefully fixes the leaking and tube kinking issues, and also locks onto the back of the machine, so it can't fall off the table accidentally.

    We'll be testing this new model extensively for 3 days while we pull hundreds of espressos at the HK trade show we're exhibiting at this week.

    Trade shows are good that way, in that they force us to use our own stuff, in a high-pressure situation. We always break something, learn and improve.

  20. #1220
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    Have any Aussies received their Decent yet? Care to share a review of how it works in local conditions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    Have any Aussies received their Decent yet? Care to share a review of how it works in local conditions?
    Funny you should mention that......I got mine delivered an hour ago, so still in the shock and unboxing process. A review will be a little while. My first stop is setting up the tablet because I am more familiar with that stuff.

    Now, back to unboxing.......
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    I'd love to see some photos, gc, if you get a chance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gc View Post
    Funny you should mention that......I got mine delivered an hour ago, so still in the shock and unboxing process. A review will be a little while. My first stop is setting up the tablet because I am more familiar with that stuff.

    Now, back to unboxing.......

    Please start a new thread with your review as it will just get lost inside this monster thread. Cheers.

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    If I ever get my DE1 there'll be pics everywhere. Apparently, even though I was one of the first to put money in I will be one of the last to get the thing
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcCee View Post
    If I ever get my DE1 there'll be pics everywhere. Apparently, even though I was one of the first to put money in I will be one of the last to get the thing
    At least we won't think that your review was coloured, consciously or subconsciously, by being bumped above others in the queue. (not implying others are). Hope your machine comes soon enough, will be good to read a review from the base model, less things to confuse the review.

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    The Plus and pro machines get priority because of profit constraints on the DE1 (there isnt any). Which is fair enough I guess but us DE1 schmilligans weren't the duffers that did the original pricing structure. I'm hoping to get it for my wife's birthday in June. This year
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    Genuinely sorry to hear that JMcCee, hope you do manage to get it for her, you have mentioned her and the suitcase for her a few times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    Have any Aussies received their Decent yet? Care to share a review of how it works in local conditions?
    I just received and set up my DE1+ today, and managed to get in three shots. Will have to wait for the weekend to properly experiment (and provide some thoughts and photos), but very happy so far!
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    I am surprised none of you stayed up and made 30 shots at midnight and then used all that caffeinated energy to write a review for the rest of us
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcCee View Post
    If I ever get my DE1 there'll be pics everywhere. Apparently, even though I was one of the first to put money in I will be one of the last to get the thing
    Take joy in the value proposition. The DE1 looks like a value leader to me!
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    any idea on when we can put order in again for the DE1+ ? also any chance of having a kit or package or something with espresso machines / scales / tampers etc at all down the track?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayuki View Post
    any idea on when we can put order in again for the DE1+ ? also any chance of having a kit or package or something with espresso machines / scales / tampers etc at all down the track?
    I upgraded to the DE1+ so I imagine there are a few other upgrades/cancellations in the wind. I would contact Decent direct and ask. Currently, any Plus ordered comes with an accessory package.

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    So when does the Non Disclosure Agreement expire and you Aussie users are allowed to talk about your machines? Or is everyone an Apple user and can't work out how to turn android on?

    Only kidding and understand this is a machine of many layers, but assume there must be some first impressions. Even if it is only 'I am still stuck in the splatter stage". Thanks Bromell for your initial thoughts.

    Jmcree hope this means your wife gets her birthday present.

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    Tried the DE1 out on Saturday. Given the size, features and price, it’s very good.
    My only issues are no manual controls, weird choice of material for the drip tray and water reservoir.

    If everything is ok with these guys in 12+ months I’m probably buying the next version.

    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    So when does the Non Disclosure Agreement expire and you Aussie users are allowed to talk about your machines? Or is everyone an Apple user and can't work out how to turn android on?

    Only kidding and understand this is a machine of many layers, but assume there must be some first impressions. Even if it is only 'I am still stuck in the splatter stage". Thanks Bromell for your initial thoughts.

    Jmcree hope this means your wife gets her birthday present.
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    Big thanks recurve boy (archer?). I take it you would like the water reservoir to be larger? It seems the other two concerns are in progress at the moment.

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    Both the drop tray and reservoir are ceramic. Which seems odd to me. It’s all very nice, but I’d rather stainless steel so there’s no chance of chipping. The reservoir is also just an open tray. I’m a bit concerned what happens if you have ... wild life in your area.

    I know there are manual control options for the high end models, but I’d like it on the low end machine.

    Just have to wait and see if all the electronics will last and what servicing the machine will be like.



    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    Big thanks recurve boy (archer?). I take it you would like the water reservoir to be larger? It seems the other two concerns are in progress at the moment.

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    Thanks Recurve for your experience. I remember John stated that he chose ceramic due to reading Amazon reviews worried about plastic in the water path. I am sure there is some reason, probably like cost, why stainless wasn't chosen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by recurve_boy View Post
    Both the drop tray and reservoir are ceramic. Which seems odd to me. It’s all very nice, but I’d rather stainless steel so there’s no chance of chipping. The reservoir is also just an open tray. I’m a bit concerned what happens if you have ... wild life in your area.
    I've not yet announced it, but we're working on a stainless steel lid, very much like what you'd find on a frying pan, for people who would prefer to cover their water tanks further. Some photos below. It'll be available as an optional accessory. It does slow down water re-filling to use it, but it's a better solution than asking people to plastic wrap the water tank (which works, but lacks longevity).

    lid.jpg


    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    Thanks Recurve for your experience. I remember John stated that he chose ceramic due to reading Amazon reviews worried about plastic in the water path. I am sure there is some reason, probably like cost, why stainless wasn't chosen.
    Stainless steel could color the taste of water (a "metallic taste"), and so that made it not acceptable to me. Ceramic doesn't have any effect on water taste, and it's a material that (unless you drop it) won't change with age.

    We are using very high fire temperature porcelain, which you'll have a very hard time chipping. In fact, drilling these to make them plumbed requires diamond tipped bits, as the porcelain we use is the same as floor tiles, and this stuff is really, really hard and durable.

    That being said, the water tank simply slides in and water is sucked up. If you want to use a different water vessel, you are welcome to use whatever you like. I've used a lasagna baking dish as well as a stainless steel catering pan.

    -john

  39. #1239
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    Quote Originally Posted by recurve_boy View Post
    Both the drop tray and reservoir are ceramic. Which seems odd to me. It’s all very nice, but I’d rather stainless steel so there’s no chance of chipping. The reservoir is also just an open tray. I’m a bit concerned what happens if you have ... wild life in your area.

    I know there are manual control options for the high end models, but I’d like it on the low end machine.

    Just have to wait and see if all the electronics will last and what servicing the machine will be like.
    There was a dicussion a couple of years ago about the drip tray and reservoir material. I cant recall the exact narrative but it would be interesting to go back and have a read.

    Any prosumer machine reservoir is open no? But I'll take your point about wildlife and keep the roo's and echidnas at bay

  40. #1240
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    JMcCee, by the look of John's diagram it seems as if it is the whole top of the reservoir is open, about 200mm x 200mm, where by comparison my molded plastic reservoir in my machine has a 30mm circular cut out. I can see the shock value for Recurve, about 400 cm2 versus 7 cm2 of exposed area.

  41. #1241
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    Walking before you can run

    IMG_8699.jpg

    A little over 3 weeks ago, I reported that we'd jumped from making 5 espresso machines at once to 20 at once. It took us 8 days to do so, which was a big speedup. We also had just brought in 5 new employees to help build, where previously we had 2 people fulltime on building (and several engineers helping part-time).

    Unfortunately, I soon learned that I had pushed too hard, to soon, to speed things up. We quickly discovered that 12 of the 20 machines (60%) had some sort of problem and had to be repaired.

    That took us another 11 days so that it took us 21 days to build 20 machines, with the last machine being finally repaired today (that last one took two electrical engineers, 3 days to figure out).

    If you're interested in the gory details, below I detail all the little things we've learned in building the past 20 machines.

    One procedure change we're making is to have each person do fewer things so that we have less variation. One person=one assembly task, for now.

    When I was given a tour of Nuova Simonelli's factory, I was told that the newest employees are placed at the start of the assembly line. The most experienced go at the end. Now I understand why.

    Part of the problem was adding so many new people. Some of them did things in a new way, that caused a new problem.

    Here are the gory details, for those who want to know:

    (1) one person tightened the screws on a particular PC board much tighter than needed, causing microfractures in the PC board, which were exposed by our 1700 volt safety test. We now use soft plastic washers on the PC boards, never tighten by hand, and always use a verified torque setting on an electric screwdriver.

    (2) on some machines, during assembly the power supply rubbed against the legs, scratching them. We now cut a piece of thick yellow electrical tape and place it on the leg to prevent scratching.

    (3) the silicone o-rings that seal the water connections are quite vulnerable to tearing. If you use tweezers to insert them, unless you're really skilled, you can easily nick the o-ring, which shows up as a water leak under pressure. 40% of our "mixing chambers" had some sort of leak due to this.

    (4) the metal clips that hold the water tubes in place are really convenient. However: we found a slight problem. Most other espresso machines use plastic connectors with these clips. I was worried about heat and longevity, so I had ours made of metal. Unfortunately, the reduced friction of "metal clip on metal connector" means that the clips now slide too easily, and can fall out, causing a water leak. We're designing our own new clips to fit tighter and bending them slightly to hold them in.

    (5) if any wire is not tucked in and pulled tight, you run the risk of scrapping the insulation off the wire when you put the case on.

    (6) the water level sensor has a cable with a double-locking connector. However, if you don't push it in far enough, only one side locks, and with each lift of the water lever, the cable comes slightly more out. This causes the machine to occasionally read "out of water" when it isn't. We now have a 2nd person check that this cable is pushed in and double locked.

    (7) we decided to wire all machines to both pass UL and EU safety standards. That requires both thermal fuses and a thermostat. Unfortunately, that also means that electricity has 3 safety connections it has to pass through to drive the pump. That's 3 more opportunities for a loose connection. We're going to "cold crimp" the thermostats to the power cable using a special machine we've bought, instead of using an insulated spade connector. This will remove one extra "hop" of complexity.

    Not quality related, but we're now spacing out each machine more on the tables, and putting each into a yellow nylon box. This allows us to rotate them easier, easing back strain. We're also putting an articulated light permanently above each machine so my staff can see in better.



    What's next?

    Instead of switching back to 220V machines, we're going to make another run of 110V machines after these are done (probably starting tomorrow). The idea is to "change less stuff". We're going to make 40 machines at a time so that each person becomes more expert at their job. We're expanding from 2 to 5 tables so that visibility is better.

    With each iteration, we discover new ways to do things incorrectly. Hopefully, with time, we'll get less good at that.

    IMG_8700.jpg
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  42. #1242
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    For some reason I haven't been getting email notifications here for a while.So just checked in since my last post. I'm having some problems with either me, or the DE1+ - not sure which at this stage, but will report back when I get it sorted and everything works OK. Hopefully, just issues with early release model.

  43. #1243
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    Quote Originally Posted by gc View Post
    For some reason I haven't been getting email notifications here for a while.So just checked in since my last post. I'm having some problems with either me, or the DE1+ - not sure which at this stage, but will report back when I get it sorted and everything works OK. Hopefully, just issues with early release model.
    Hi Gc, come onto the "Decent Diaspora" basecamp group, to which you should have been invited, and please post your issues there. We'll sort you, regardless of whether the problem is you or the tech.

    -john
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  44. #1244
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    Calibrating "stop at weight"

    screen 2018-05-15 at 5.52.02 PM.jpg

    For those of you who have bought a bluetooth "Skale" from us, your DE1+s can automatically stop your espresso making when a goal weight is reached.

    However, you have probably noticed that the final weight of the shot is a few grams off from the weight you asked for.

    The reason for this is that after the STOP button is "pressed for you", there is still residual pressure and water in the group, that continues to pour into the cup.

    Exactly how much more goes into your cup after the STOP button depends on a number of factors:
    - the pressure that was in place when the shot was stopped
    - the flow rate at the time of stopping
    - your dose weight and grind size
    - some delay between water entering the group and eventually causing a weight increase on the scale
    - basket size (and thus, hole size)
    - uncertainty on the scale, due to espresso droplets causing "sensor noise" (or "jitter")

    I had factory set the DE1+ to stop at 75% of the goal weight you set. I now think that's a few percentage points too soon, and have changed the default to 80%.

    However, it's unlikely that this 80% number will be "just perfect" for you, so I now allow you to calibrate the "Stop at weight" feature to your liking.

    To do so, go to Settings->Machine->Calibrate, and tap on the scroll bar. It allows a setting between 60% and 100%.

    The beta testers suggested an auto calibration approach, and that's a possibility for the future. However, as you change programs, doses, baskets, this auto-calibration will be off. It's not an easy problem to "solve", though I think I've seen a new pro machine which claims to have an "auto calibration" feature now.

    This video from James Hoffmann, about calibrating this exact same thing on the Black Eagle, illustrates some of the issues. It's reassuring that this venerable machine has the same issue (though Simonelli decided to calibrate in grams, not percentage).



    The new tablet software, that I will post shortly, has this feature.

    -john
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  45. #1245
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    Hi Decent Espresso, I believe the La Marzocco Strada AV has this feature: I'm new to espresso/coffee and have been watching Chris Baca's YouTube videos, and there's a video where LM rep explains LM profiled 1000s of shots to predict during the shot how each one will go, including drips at the end.

  46. #1246
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    Quote Originally Posted by RexChan View Post
    Hi Decent Espresso, I believe the La Marzocco Strada AV has this feature: I'm new to espresso/coffee and have been watching Chris Baca's YouTube videos, and there's a video where LM rep explains LM profiled 1000s of shots to predict during the shot how each one will go, including drips at the end.
    Thanks for jogging my memory. I now remember reading a product announcement of the new version of the Strada AV.

    I've pulled some shots on the Strada AV, more than I have on the Black Eagle. It's really a workhorse: something for us to aspire to.

    -john

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    Mea Culpa

    IMG_8719.jpg

    So far, of the 45 machines we've sent out, we've been able to guide people with a problem back to a machine in good working condition without needing to send them a replacement machine.

    Except in three cases.

    Today, all three of these customers are getting free replacement machines from us. We'll pay to get those machines back to us and study them to figure out why they are anomalies.

    The 3 different causes of failure are interesting stories, though.

    - Michael's machine makes espresso about 5ļC hotter than the goal setting. We can't figure out why, but it's probably a defective temperature sensor (or bad connection) causing the control system to get confused. We thought that Michael must be "doing something weird" but have crossed out all the possibilities and now think "something is weird with his machine".

    - Jack was using the "calibrate" page when he accidentally didn't enter a decimal point, thus entering a huge number in by accident (ie, 300 ml/second flow rate, instead of 3.00). This caused the firmware to crash whenever the DE1+ was booted. Whoops: we hadn't thought to create an emergency mechanism for clearing the calibration settings. The DIP switch settings should have put Jack into "safe mode" so he could upgrade his firmware, but didn't do their job right.

    - Christian's machine had a retaining clip fall out during transport, so that steam was leaking. We resolved that with a video chat, but when he put the case back on, a pump wire wasn't tucked in enough, and the case scraped the insulation off as he closed it. This caused a short and blew a safety triac on one of our PC boards.

    Each new type of failure teaches us something.

    There is a positive side to our slowly ramping up our manufacturing speed: most of the big problems will have been solved by the time we can manage to ship machines at a reasonable pace.

  48. #1248
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    James Hoffmann DE1+ review

    James Hoffmann posted today that he's making a series of videos about our DE1+ Decent espresso machine, and this is his first.

    gc, RavenMad, bigdaddy and 1 others like this.

  49. #1249
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    For the nay sayers above I would like to point out that the DE+ is a simply great machine and the whole DE team should take a bow.
    I have had mine for a couple of weeks and had an irritating problem in the beginning which John, from HK, talked me and a freind through, and in a matter of five minutes we were making some very decent coffees.

  50. #1250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_Weis View Post
    For the nay sayers above I would like to point out that the DE+ is a simply great machine and the whole DE team should take a bow.
    I have had mine for a couple of weeks and had an irritating problem in the beginning which John, from HK, talked me and a freind through, and in a matter of five minutes we were making some very decent coffees.
    Bob great to read another post from someone who has one. Just to give a little more information, what is it you really like about the DE+? Anything you don't like?

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