Page 45 of 46 FirstFirst ... 3543444546 LastLast
Results 2,201 to 2,250 of 2263
Like Tree1989Likes

Thread: Decent Espresso Machines (DE1) - Any thoughts?

  1. #2201
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,072
    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by luca View Post
    Hi John,

    Thanks for that, yes, I do have that part, but it won’t help. Id plumb it in if having it plumbed in resulted in less work, but it would be more work in my case. I’ve got to refill the tank and I’ve got to remove the drip tray to do it. Since the drip tray is never overflowing by that stage, it’s basically no extra work. If I plumbed in, it would actually be more work, since I probably can’t really slide the tube back and forth much because it has to run through two holes I can’t access much and there’s a lot of friction. Also, the tube probably needs to run backwards under the water tank and there doesn’t look like there’s much room there. So I’d probably have to detach the tubes. Then I’d be holding a tray made out of ceramic that I’d be worried about shattering if I drop it, with a drain exit on the bottom that is dripping and which prevents the tray from simply being put down.
    Oh, I see. Yes, if you're unable to plumb in the water refilling, then plumbing in the drip tray would make things harder, not easier.

    -j

  2. #2202
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Rockingham W.A.
    Posts
    1,505
    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    Can you tell me more about how you successfully make 7g shots?

    I've really struggled with that type of basket and channeling, and eventually ended up using a small tamper head, made for the purpose, and even finer grinding.

    I find that most cafes simply revert to a 15g basket, making double shots, as that's easier and more consistent.

    So... care to share your secrets?


    Attachment 25052 Attachment 25053
    G'day "decentespresso" (doesn't seem like John's writing style to me).

    Not really secrets.

    The short version (maybe useless, but here goes).

    Firstly you need a single basket that is capable of actually being tamped - just like my 7g VST (and so few others - sigh). The first two photos are from VSTs website (renamed by me for clarity). BTW, they refer to it as "ridged" - it isn't really in the sense that it doesn't have a slot for a retaining spring like other "ridged" baskets. That means it is not a "shallow saucer shape" (what the ****** were they thinking when they "designed" those - it cannot ever work). It must have a small deep centre with a shelf to connect it to the 58mm p/f holder. Then you can use anything circa 40mm as a tamper to fit it. The coffee grounds never get onto the shelf as it would take around 10g to do that. The third photo is my 316 stainless single prototype (fits a Pullman handle - I prefer them, personal preference only ). Note: The sides of the stainless are tapered to fit the sides of the VST, the shelf matches the VST shelf. Considering I used a 500 / 600ml "Smartwater Lime and Guava" bottle (about 1/3 full of water to balance it somewhat) for over a year I reckon anything that fits properly will do.

    VST 7g from top.jpegVST 7g from side.jpegTamperPreSingle.jpg


    Secondly, singles are a bit (cough) more finicky in terms of dosing quantity and require a grinder with an even particle spread (specifically: no twin peaks like most conicals). So virtually any good flat burr grinder will do (Mazzer Major, Mahlkoenig Vario gen2+, EK43 etc - FYI, I had no success at all with a Mahlkoenig K30, YMMV).

    Thirdly, I use progressive tamping (taught to me in late '79 by a Northern Italian - my own "coined name" for it). Just like the Swift grinder, tamp about 2ml of "fluff" at a time at a very light tamping pressure. FWIW, I use the weight of the tamper plus just enough extra heft to level it. The Swift uses around 8 pounds - nowhere near Schomer's much quoted "30lbs" (apart from totally disagreeing with him on that, I have no idea how he thought it up in the first place).

    I have a much longer, full answer if needed. Hopefully this will be enough to get you sorted.

    TampIt.
    PS: The photos failed first time around. Relinked them.
    Last edited by TampIt; 14th February 2020 at 12:45 PM.
    level3ninja likes this.

  3. #2203
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,072
    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    The short version (maybe useless, but here goes).
    Are you grinding quite finely, or just normal espresso?

    Can you post a photo of your puck, post tamping? That'd also be very helpful.

    -j

  4. #2204
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Rockingham W.A.
    Posts
    1,505
    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    Are you grinding quite finely, or just normal espresso?

    Can you post a photo of your puck, post tamping? That'd also be very helpful.

    -j
    G'day again decentespresso

    I hope this helps (excerpt from my long version) - I am very time constrained for the next week or two. FWIW, preinfusion is also essential for good coffee, even more so for singles.

    The Electra Eagle (manual lever) really taught me to smell the roast and adjust the preinfusion time & rate to suit. As soon as you feel the puck resistance, pause it for however long it needs. Generally the lighter the roast the longer the preinfusion & pause. A side note: if it smells green and you really must make a cuppa with it, add even more pause time and it will reduce the bitterness a lot (and even bring out some of the regional characteristics). I have posted a few times on CS that some roasts need up to 40 seconds. Oh, one other preinfusion point - the way I set up my Electra it preinfuses very, very slowly. Speeding up the preinfusion always compromised the shot. At a guess it would be under 1ml per second - which is how I set up the DE1 preinfusion (all baskets, not just singles). Another side note: I strongly suspect getting the preinfusion correct reduces channeling. When I ran my 2 group La Pavoni (no preinfusion / huge rotary "instant on" pump) it seemed to channel more - even when using VST baskets in it. Of course, no preinfusion meant it also tasted worse - another expensive toy wasted.

    (sigh) finally over to the grinding / dosing / tamping part. VSTs need a grinder to go about 1/3 finer than standard espresso grind. If you prefer, think of it as about halfway between Turkish and espresso. A lot of grinders cannot do that well, either. If you use a double, you have a fair bit more latitude on the grinding texture - however it is much tastier when getting it correct. I dose the VST to about 7.2g "when I finally get the grind right".

    Enjoy your cuppa (my DE1 is purveying an excellent Honduras as I write this).


    TampIt
    level3ninja likes this.

  5. #2205
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,072

    What's new in the v1.3 Decent Espresso Machine

    I got about 20 emails and DMs yesterday asking me "what's new in v1.3?" and so I put this video together to show & tell:


  6. #2206
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Preston VIC
    Posts
    51
    I would love to test a Decent espresso, never had the chance to play with one. Is there anyone in Melbourne who has it? I can bring some a few kilos of beans as a present

  7. #2207
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,072
    Quote Originally Posted by Vittorio View Post
    I would love to test a Decent espresso, never had the chance to play with one. Is there anyone in Melbourne who has it? I can bring some a few kilos of beans as a present
    There are quite a few Decents in Melbourne. Can I suggest you DM @luca here on Coffee Snobs, maybe he'll be up for it.

    -john
    Vittorio likes this.

  8. #2208
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,072

    Professor Shin's extensive intro to Decent Espresso



    Professor Shin's extensive intro to Decent Espresso

    Shin, who runs Decent Espresso Korean, put this video together, showing how he explains what we do, to someone who knows nothing about us.

    This video is quite long, as it starts with "I assume you know nothing about us" to "you now know all the important stuff"

    His presentation style is very much geared to an Asian audience, who are used to being good students and not interrupting to ask questions. But glammed up with wizbang animations.

    Shin's style is more "wacky professor" than the Western "edutainment" style. Both styles try to educate, but Shin's style is more information dense, yet still zany. Uniquely Asian, and refreshing for it.

    I found the video really interesting, as I struggle as well to explain what we do, to someone completely new to Decent Espresso.

    -john
    bigdaddy and StaticBlue like this.

  9. #2209
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Preston VIC
    Posts
    51
    Thanks John.
    when can we order the new version 1.3 Pro?

  10. #2210
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    Attachment 25068


    When I start to take orders for v1.3 machines, we will offer a USD$1000 "buy back" credit to existing owners.

    • What this means is: v1.0/v1.1 customers can sell us their older DE1 for $1000 discount toward a new v1.3 purchase.
    • It does not matter v1.0 or v1.1, or DE1+ DE1PRO, all are $1000 discount.
    • For other currencies, please use http://xe.com to convert USD$1000 to their currency.
    • We will pay to ship the machine back to HK
    • Parry will check the machine is ok and then tell Mirjam that it is available for sale.
    • Each "buy back" machine should be processed exactly like a "repair" To-dos - Q&A (customer questions)


    -john

    Any chance that Basecamp link can be made into a public PDF so we can see what is involved in a repair process?

  11. #2211
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,072
    Quote Originally Posted by Vittorio View Post
    Thanks John.
    when can we order the new version 1.3 Pro?
    Hopefully in the next 24h. Finalizing the "choose a model" javascript app and new graphics currently.

    I'll announce it here as soon as ordering is up.

    -j
    Screen Shot 2020-02-16 at 11.56.42 AM.jpg
    Dimal and Vittorio like this.

  12. #2212
    day
    day is offline
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    Hopefully in the next 24h. Finalizing the "choose a model" javascript app and new graphics currently.

    I'll announce it here as soon as ordering is up.

    -j
    Screen Shot 2020-02-16 at 11.56.42 AM.jpg
    judt happened to see it up and ready to check out on the website. Happy shopping everyone.
    Vittorio likes this.

  13. #2213
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Preston VIC
    Posts
    51
    You just made my day

  14. #2214
    day
    day is offline
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by Vittorio View Post
    You just made my day
    Excellent, I was apparently able to get into the first round, already got tracking info (though its just in the preshipment phase.)

  15. #2215
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    68
    Does anybody have experience or opinions on the different shipping carriers available? I think it's DPEX vs UPS.

  16. #2216
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,995
    Quote Originally Posted by SeanSheep View Post
    Does anybody have experience or opinions on the different shipping carriers available? I think it's DPEX vs UPS.
    I had UPS courier a grinder to me last year. They were fantastic; very smooth handling of all the import paperwork and stuff. If it’s not much price difference, I’d be inclined to go with ups.
    SeanSheep likes this.

  17. #2217
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,995
    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    There are quite a few Decents in Melbourne. Can I suggest you DM @luca here on Coffee Snobs, maybe he'll be up for it.

    -john
    Sorry, I missed this. Yeah, in principle happy to show people the machine. Last demo I did for someone I just pulled like 5 different shots in a row with the same coffee at the same grind setting to give a good idea of what all of the different settings do, which I think is by far the best way to check it out. Is there anyone in Melbourne other than Vittorio who wants to check it out? It’s the sort of thing where it’s probably fairly efficient to show a few people at once.
    Dimal and 338 like this.

  18. #2218
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    5
    John - your PM's are full. Looking for help with my 1.1 order from Jan 30. Unfortunately I think I may have gotten pushed further out with the release of 1.3 (even though I requested the change on Friday of last week).

  19. #2219
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,072
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalecooper View Post
    John - your PM's are full. Looking for help with my 1.1 order from Jan 30. Unfortunately I think I may have gotten pushed further out with the release of 1.3 (even though I requested the change on Friday of last week).
    Yeah, sorry about that! A bit of DM flurry last night coinciding with v1.3 machines being buyable.

    But if you're a customer, can you contact me with our tech support system Please log in: what is your email address? so that your queries are automatically organized with your account? And also then one of my employees can assist.

    -j

  20. #2220
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,072
    Quote Originally Posted by ashlynnbles View Post
    Any chance that Basecamp link can be made into a public PDF so we can see what is involved in a repair process?
    I assume you mean "repair process on the machine I'm buying" not "in general, please show all machines you are repairing".

    And if so, yes. For each machine we refurb we keep an extensive photo and text log, and we share that with you before you commit to getting that machine.

    But note that the demand for refurbished machines is so great now, that you should expect to wait 6 to 12 months if you want one.

    -j

  21. #2221
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,072

    v1.3 Decent Espresso Machine


  22. #2222
    gc
    gc is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Kuranda, Australia
    Posts
    223
    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    Can you tell me more about how you successfully make 7g shots?

    I've really struggled with that type of basket and channeling, and eventually ended up using a small tamper head, made for the purpose, and even finer grinding.

    I find that most cafes simply revert to a 15g basket, making double shots, as that's easier and more consistent.

    So... care to share your secrets?


    Attachment 25052 Attachment 25053
    Tampit in response wrote:
    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    The other issue I have with the presets is more basic - I use a 7g VST single for both my daily cuppas (a self imposed limit, however I make sure they are damn good ones worth sipping and savouring at length). Most visitors also get that basket. Every preset I saw was aimed at 15g to 18g (or even larger) baskets. FYI, a combo of a good grinder with an even particle spread (I use Mahlkoenig Vario gen2's and 3), a naked p/f and VST baskets boosted my extraction ratio so much that a 15g "standard double" basket was way too strong as a 250ml (or even 350ml) latte, so after about 35 years of doubles I switched to a single basket about ten years ago.

    TampIt
    ......while describing the equipment and reasons Tampit didn't include the actual profile he used which is what makes it all work. I have the same 7gm VST basket, a cheap 40mm tamper off eBay ($A14), and a gen 3 MahlKonig Vario or Sette 270Wi, and Tampit very graciously shared his knowledge and advanced 7 gm profile with me. I managed to tear him away from his extensive social whirl to gain his permission to share the profile here. Its always worked for me, and I haven't found it near as fussy as 15gm shots to create. Even when, using Sette 270Wi it gives a very balanced pour, without channelling. I thought it might be better to describe the profile in screenshots for those who don't have the DE yet and want to see how an advanced shot can be created. Read this in context of post # 2184 above.

    The profile name and preinfusion settings:

    arron's profile name 7gm.jpg

    Tampit has already stated (somewhere!) that a very slow PI works best and here it is fast start up to .9ml/sec flow rate step for 14sec, the latter figure to be varied as to when 1st drops appear. But I find this usually about right.

    Attachment 25130

    Pause:
    To fully soak and expand the puck.

    7gm pause.png

    Rise and hold:
    And then a pressure step with a fast rise To 7bar to fully compress the puck.

    7gm rise and hold.png

    Declining:

    ...and then a smooth decline to a flow rate of .8ml/sec
    7gm decline.png

    ...until the shot is stopped with "Stop at Weight" using bluetooth Skale as cup weight sensor. I stop at 19mls in the cup for a piccolo latte with a small shot of steamed milk.

    Stop at Weight:

    7gm SAW.png

    Using 7.2gms of coffee and 3 step fill/tamp procedure ie 1/3 of dose, tamp lightly, another 1/3 dose tamp lightly, 1/3 dose final normal tamp.

    I have been grateful for this profile because it lets me experiment more without overdosing on caffiene. I have always been constantly amazed at how the DE can extract so much flavour out of so little coffee without any bitterness. But I'll leave Tampit to explain the why's of all this. I'm a mere learner.

  23. #2223
    day
    day is offline
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by SeanSheep View Post
    Does anybody have experience or opinions on the different shipping carriers available? I think it's DPEX vs UPS.
    wow ups really knocked it out the ballpark. Left Alaska yesterday and was delivered to me in South Carolina before noon today.

  24. #2224
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,072
    Quote Originally Posted by day View Post
    wow ups really knocked it out the ballpark. Left Alaska yesterday and was delivered to me in South Carolina before noon today.
    Hong Kong is the busiest air freight airport in the world, for a good reason. The logistics work really well here.

    -john


    Quote Originally Posted by gc View Post
    I have been grateful for this profile because it lets me experiment more without overdosing on caffiene. I have always been constantly amazed at how the DE can extract so much flavour out of so little coffee without any bitterness. But I'll leave Tampit to explain the why's of all this. I'm a mere learner.
    Really, really helpful and interesting, thank you for that extensive documentation!

    -john

  25. #2225
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,072

    3 hours to make a coffee cart

    cart3.jpg

    3 hours to make a coffee cart

    As we were yesterday invited to exhibit at the USA coffee championships in Los Angeles this weekend https://www.instagram.com/p/B8vDmy0h3Ye/ I had to get a coffee cart together in a hurry. Thankfully, I had previously ordered our pre-cut wood top https://decentespresso.com/coffeecart and had the other parts around. A quick visit to IKEA, and 3 hours later, a fully functioning coffee cart.

    This is a DE1PRO in here. It's serial number #0002 (the second machine we built), and it's still going strong. I've not ever put a DE1PRO into this countersunk bracket before. And while the tubing is not completely hidden, and the legs are a bit shorter, it still looks not to bad.

    Tomorrow I'll find more appropriate water containers than a vinegar bottle and a spaghetti pot.

    -john

    Dimal, matth3wh and StaticBlue like this.

  26. #2226
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,072

    Likely to run out of v1.3

    future copy.jpg

    Likely to run out of v1.3

    In the past 10 days, we have sold 125 espresso machines, out of the run of 500 machines we'd planned for the next 6 months.

    We'd planned on restocking in 4 months, to continue production.

    But the coronavirus has added at least 2 months of delay in getting some key parts, such as the side-firing LEDs for the group head controller, which are now a minimum of 4 months out.

    This means that we will likely have a few months where we're totally out of stock of espresso machines.

    So: if you're thinking of getting a Decent Espresso Machine, you might consider getting into the order queue now.

    Our current estimate is that we'll have sold out our v1.3 run in the next 6 weeks, and that we won't be able to start making v1.4 machines until September. It's also likely that because of the parts shortage, that v1.4 machines will sell out quickly as well.

    We have no new user-facing features planned for v1.4. All improvements planned are internal, to ease assembly and to decrease parts complexity.
    
    ----

    In the graphic, I'm sharing with you 5 years of sales quantity numbers. Espresso machine sales have been on a slow and steady climb, but aggressively better with v1.3.
    
    Accessory sales have been climbing much faster and consistently. The "christmas rush" that started in September 2019, was not a rush after all, but a new normal. We had nothing new to sell in January 2020, but accessory sales held at almost the same level as December.

    This is good news for us, as we find that coffee accessory sales are the start to a relationship with us, that often leads to an espresso machine sale. It's much easier to sell something expensive to someone who already has a relationship with you, and has experience both your product, and how you behave when there are problems.

    In May, we're doubling our space, from 5000 sq ft to 11000 sq feet (about 1000 sq meters). And as soon as the coronavirus worries recede, we're hiring heavily in Hong Kong, to increase our manufacturing speed.

    -john
    StaticBlue likes this.

  27. #2227
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,072

    Sale on Returned Items

    IMG_1552c.jpg

    Bugs and I moved back to the USA, where 5 years worth of accessories returned sat waiting for us. The majority of it was "don't like it" and unused, and perfect condition. We organized it all in our kitchen, and shipped it all together back to Hong Kong.

    And so we're selling it all at a 30% (or more) discount.

    The stuff is all on this page:
    https://decentespresso.com/sale

    Some other notes:
    - we're going to exit the grinder business after we sell these remaining Decent Pro Grinders. They have 64mm flat burrs made by Italmill, and we also sell SSP burr upgrades for them. So.. the price has come down to $560 for our grinder. https://decentespresso.com/pro_grinder - I think we have about a dozen grinders left, and then we're out of the business.
    - we're enlarging (by 2x, 6000 sq feet more!) our factory in May, and want to "get rid" of slower selling stuff. To that end, we're discounting James Hoffmann's book "The best of @Jimseven" down to $34.30. https://decentespresso.com/books
    Dimal likes this.

  28. #2228
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,072
    Measuring steam wetness

    I was asked today on the UK Coffee forum:
    "I wonder if one of the early 1.3 owners could do a quick check on the steam quality in terms of „wetness“. As steam has been reengineered it would be great to have numbers to the changes made to quantify them. As a Test Method I would suggest to have 250ml of whole milk, weight it, steam it to 62 degrees Celsius, weight it. "

    Total water used to steam the milk is easy to obtain, as the DE1 tells you how much water it is using to make steam, with the chart I've included in the photo.However, by "wetness" one usually means "percentage of steam that is in the vapor state". ie how much water is carried in the steam.

    That's harder to measure. However, we have done just that in the lab.

    We built a kind of centrifuge that separates steam from water. Only vapor can escape out the top of this. We use this device to measure how dry our steam is, in the lab, as we tune things. We can weigh the water that was trapped, after steaming, and calculate the non-vapor content percentage of the steam.

    -john

    how-wet2.jpg

    StaticBlue likes this.

  29. #2229
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,072

    Trouble shipping out

    quotas.jpg

    Trouble shipping out

    A few people have noticed that our order queue https://decentespresso.com/queue hasn't been moving lately.

    The reason: we've had troubles getting espresso machines shipped for the past 10 days. UPS initially refused our orders, then refused to pick up and told us to use another courrier to get packages inside Hong Kong, to the UPS warehouse. Strange.

    And today...

    We learned about UPS rules in effect: a limit of 150kg of packages shipped per day to the USA, and 300kg per day to EU. That's 6 machines to the USA per day, 12 to EU. That's why they were being weird to us and not accepting all our shipments, and it seems arbitrary. We can work around this limitation now that we know what it is. We are now shipping directly, using our own UPS account, instead of our usual shipping broker.

    We're pretty sure that our shipping broker had gone over their limit, and that's why we have been mostly blocked from shipping for the past 10 days.

    Unfortunately, they weren't communicative, and didn't tell us that this was the issue. Probably they didn't want us to bypass them, which we needed to do, to get around the daily limit that was imposed on them.

    We are now shipping machines directly from our our UPS account, and not using the broker, in order to bypass these limits. It's a bit more expensive for us, but we "gotta do what we gotta do". We're swallowing the extra shipping cost (using the broker is cheaper) and not asking customers for more shipping money.

    I'm fairly sure that these quotas are due to Hong Kong being the world's largest air freight airport. With China's factories back in operation, the coronavirus-struck world needs stuff, badly, and logistics companies are straining under the load. UPS is trying to be fair and evenly spread the load.

    -john
    Dimal likes this.

  30. #2230
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,072

    The "shower basket" is coming

    The "shower basket" is coming

    In about two weeks, we should have the pour over "shower baskets" in stock, and will ship them to everyone who has back ordered one. https://decentespresso.com/basket

    To prepare for this, I'm currently working on:
    - getting several new profiles from Scott Rao, for different "pour over" recipes, using the new shower basket, for different grind dose weights.
    - a video from Rao showing how to make this new kind of pour-over: https://youtu.be/HraNBzMaCW8
    - a new feature to hide profiles you don't want to see. It's an eyeball icon, and then you uncheck the profiles you want to hide.

    hide.jpg


    - We're trying to find a water resistant "motorized cake display stand" to sit the V60 on, so that you don't have to do a stir, and the possibility of channeling is further reduced. For example https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M5HN2AU/ (but able to handle water pouring on it). If you have any tips, please let me know. Rao found he got another 1% extraction when using a (non-water-resistant) rotating stand under his v60.

    51MPHH6ZNNL._AC_SL1000_.jpg


  31. #2231
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,072
    New feature: How to show and hide presets

    By default, only the most popular espresso presets are shown on the Decent Espresso machine. You can choose to show more, or hide those you do not want. Any preset you create, is shown by default.

    I've sometimes found myself struggling to find the preset I wan, mixed in the long list. I'm hoping this new feature addresses that problem.





    Dimal, gc and StaticBlue like this.

  32. #2232
    gc
    gc is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Kuranda, Australia
    Posts
    223
    Updated and used this very useful feature morning. Been wanting to prune my profile list for ages, but didn't want to just delete them and lose them forever. Very pleased.
    decentespresso likes this.

  33. #2233
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    9
    My general observation is that all of these kickstarter type blurbs sound exactly the same (just as all the Facebook miracle product ads all seem t be designed by people who were previously chief designer at (insert market leading phone/drone/espresso maker) before clearing out their desk (stock footage) and deciding to build one themself that's even better for a quarter of the price. At this stage so many products sound like they hold so much promise. Let them meet the market first.

  34. #2234
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,072
    Quote Originally Posted by foxinsox8 View Post
    My general observation is that all of these kickstarter type blurbs sound exactly the same (just as all the Facebook miracle product ads all seem t be designed by people who were previously chief designer at (insert market leading phone/drone/espresso maker) before clearing out their desk (stock footage) and deciding to build one themself that's even better for a quarter of the price. At this stage so many products sound like they hold so much promise. Let them meet the market first.
    Sorry, I don't understand your meaning.

    - We've never been on kickstarter. We're entirely self-funded (me, my partner and her mum)
    - We've been in business 5 years
    - We've sold and shipped 1100 espresso machines
    - We're in our 3rd major release version
    Andy, dan77, Dimal and 8 others like this.

  35. #2235
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    28
    Your the real deal John ! Huge respect.

    Good luck going forward.
    Andy, Dimal, Javaphile and 1 others like this.

  36. #2236
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Internet
    Posts
    17,542
    Quote Originally Posted by foxinsox8 View Post
    My general observation is that all of these kickstarter type blurbs sound exactly the same (just as all the Facebook miracle product ads all seem t be designed by people who were previously chief designer at (insert market leading phone/drone/espresso maker) before clearing out their desk (stock footage) and deciding to build one themself that's even better for a quarter of the price. At this stage so many products sound like they hold so much promise. Let them meet the market first.

    That's a pretty rude post about a product line that not only exists but has already "met the market" and continues to take feedback and add features and tools that everyone loves.

    How many would like to purchase so you can have an actual opinion?
    Dimal, Javaphile, SanderP and 3 others like this.

  37. #2237
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by foxinsox8 View Post
    My general observation is that all of these kickstarter type blurbs sound exactly the same (just as all the Facebook miracle product ads all seem t be designed by people who were previously chief designer at (insert market leading phone/drone/espresso maker) before clearing out their desk (stock footage) and deciding to build one themself that's even better for a quarter of the price. At this stage so many products sound like they hold so much promise. Let them meet the market first.
    I would suggest you do some checking of facts before posting like this. You are quite incorrect. I am sure others who have followed and admired the excellent work done by John and his team at Decent Espresso will echo my view that Decent is a highly reputable company run by genuine, committed people. They do not deserve this sort of cheap shot.

    Please note I am not (yet) a client of Decent and have no association with the company or its people. I have simply watched and admired their achievements on this and other forums for several years.
    Dimal, Javaphile and StaticBlue like this.

  38. #2238
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    504
    Quote Originally Posted by foxinsox8 View Post
    My general observation is that.....
    Commodore opinion.

    Sorta like @rs3h0l3e$.... Everybody's got one. As per the others, buy one and you might actually be able to contribute an informed opinion.
    SanderP likes this.

  39. #2239
    338
    338 is online now
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,029
    Quote Originally Posted by foxinsox8 View Post
    My general observation is that all
    Tim, bored in self isolation already? Try porntube.

    Reasonable to not like a product, but be genuine about it for real reasons, not using a generic dislike spiel
    Dimal, SanderP and Caffeinator like this.

  40. #2240
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,072

    puck resistance

    New: puck resistance

    A new feature today in the Decent App, suggested by Collin Arneson in long conversation about "Stalled Extractions" (itself an interesting topic) brings "Puck resistance" to the Decent Espresso App.

    This new feature appears as a chart line, giving you an idea of how well your puck is resisting water flow.

    Another way to think of this new line, is as a representation of your "coffee puck integrity".

    "Puck resistance" should usually go down over time, since about 20% of the puck material ends up in your espresso. Less puck material should mean less puck resistance to water.

    Because it is calculated as "pressure/flow", it allows you to see the quality of the puck, somewhat independently of a changing pressure or changing flow rate. There are no objective "units" to this: this is a "made up" calculated number that seemed useful in conversation.

    Note that this line is only (at the moment) in the "Insight" skin, and only when you tap to zoom the chart. The new line is in Yellow, as its label.

    -john

    puck_resistance.jpg

    Dimal likes this.

  41. #2241
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    17,584
    Quote Originally Posted by Plane24 View Post
    I would suggest you do some checking of facts before posting like this. You are quite incorrect. I am sure others who have followed and admired the excellent work done by John and his team at Decent Espresso will echo my view that Decent is a highly reputable company run by genuine, committed people. They do not deserve this sort of cheap shot.

    Please note I am not (yet) a client of Decent and have no association with the company or its people. I have simply watched and admired their achievements on this and other forums for several years.
    Ditto from me....

    Mal.

  42. #2242
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,072

    Puck resistance : revisited

    Yesterday I added "puck resistance" to Decent the App, calculated as "pressure / flow"

    But, this calculation bothered me, and it took me a day to figure out why.

    Those of us who have made flow profiled shots have noticed that a small chance in flow, yields a big difference in pressure. Yes, the "resistance" calculation we were using yesterday, implies a linear relationship.

    I've heard Ray tell me that pressure increases to the square of flow. Hopefully I didn't misunderstand. I went searching online for more about this, and that seems to be the case, but "I am not a physicist" so please... someone correct me.

    I have now changed the "puck resistance" calculation to be: pressure / (flow^2) and I'm so far, happier with the results the resistance line is giving me, which are now closer to what I think is actually going on.

    In 3 espressos, let me explain.

    My first espresso was at Niche's grind setting 11, and the flow was a touch too fast, and the shot ended a bit too soon. Puck resistance never amounted to much:

    shot1.png
    
    So, I tried grinding 1 notch finer.

    My second espresso was at Niche's grind setting 10 (finer), with 17g of coffee, 36g in cup (39ml using volumetric stopping). The espresso starts with just a few drips, and "puck resistance" goes "off the chart" to represent this almost "stuck puck" that is the start of my espresso shot. The shot took a long time to finish, and was still fairly slow at the end.

    shot2.png
    
    Instead of changing the grind, I reduced my dose by 1.5g, and I got a shot that had almost linear puck resistance dropping, and flat flow. The slight pressure drop around 23 seconds kept flow constant as puck resistance dropped slightly. But very little pressure adjustment was needed, as puck resistance was holding well.

    shot3.png

    If pressure is held constant, then the flow gives you a reasonable idea of puck resistance. That's what Matt Perger is doing with his DE1, to test his distribution tool. Here is an unpublished photo of one of his tests. Notice how he's using 9 bar constant, in order to assess how well his grooming tool is working at maintaining puck integrity.
    
    perg3.jpg

    Once Matt gets back to his DE1, after the coronavirus lockdown, he'll be able to vary pressure, and now, assess puck resistance as an independent variable.

    Interesting times.

    -john
    Dimal and level3ninja like this.

  43. #2243
    Senior Member FineGrind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    130
    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    Attachment 23496

    John Weiss' extensive review of the DE1+ in Home Barista was quite positive, but did call out a difference in style between his classic La Spaziale machine, and the Decent:

    "DE1 shots feature cleaner taste, greater clarity, and improved flavor separation, whereas body/mouthfeel is noticeably enhanced on the Spaziale. With lighter roasts, where a long preinfusion is practically essential, the DE1 produced obviously superior extractions."
    https://www.home-barista.com/reviews...ew-t57610.html

    Since our espresso machines are "open for tinkering" and the (almost 1000 now) Decent customer base has a lot of tinkerers, for the past 2 years there has been a furious amount of theorizing and experimentation, to figure out *just why* would mouth-feel be different?

    Yes, many people like the "clarity" of Decent espresso shots, but others want to recreate the classic thick mouthfeel. It *should* be possible with the Decent, if one could isolate the important variables.

    Damian was one of the first to create a variety of different spacers which pushed the shower screen down only the coffee puck. He experienced greater shot consistency, increased drink quality, and greater mouthfeel.

    From there, Sheldon machine his own spacers from stainless steel, and experienced similar results.

    Now, Sheldon has produced his own run of stainless steel spacers for v1.0 and v1.1 Decent customers, and is selling them at US$100 at whatever thickness the person wants (they’re made to order).


    The goal here is to determine if thicker mouth-feel is directly causable by having a shower screen pressed against the coffee puck. Initial results indicate "yes", and now the community is moving to a much larger test, with dozens of people participating.

    We want to learn if the spacer change is "better" in "all cases" or just "in some cases". Is there a clarity vs mouth-feel tradeoff?

    Over the next few weeks, we're going to learn a lot...

    -john
    John how is this experiment coming on? And how do I order the spacers? Thank you FG.

  44. #2244
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,072
    Quote Originally Posted by FineGrind View Post
    John how is this experiment coming on? And how do I order the spacers? Thank you FG.
    We haven't publicly published our findings yet but here's what we found:

    - spacers definitely increase drink thickness
    - spacers decrease EY% from 0.5% to 1.5% (depending on the person testing)
    - moderate spacer (5mm) is better than bigger (7mm).
    - spacers cause dry pucks. The bigger the spacer, the drier the puck. However, 5mm produces acceptably dry puck.
    - spacers are more appropriate for medium to dark roasted coffees, where increased body is much desired.
    - I'm not a fan of spacers, as I tend to either drink an espresso of a medium-light roast, or milk my drinks. In both cases, the spacer made a worse drink, for me.
    - But if you are a medium to dark roast, espresso drinker you'll probably like the spacer.

    Sheldon's spacer is my favorite, and you can order it here (membership required)
    https://3.basecamp.com/3671212/bucke...nts/2240098868

    We're working on a replacement water dispersion part, that is thicker, so it acts like a moderate spacer (~4mm), but also disperses water more toward the center than previous iterations. It's also made of Ultem, which is better for temperature stability. It will be backward compatible to v1.1. v1.0 customers should get a 3rd party spacer.

    As an aside, we've also found that have a combination of ultem + stainless in the group keeps the stainless much cleaner than our current combination of brass + stainless. We think there's some ion exchange going on between the alloys. The photo below is from an uncleaned set of parts, after 2 months of home usage.

    As an aside #2, we did not find an extraction advantage to E61 style shower screens (no bolt in the center).

    -john


    preview-full-IMG_1403.jpg
    Last edited by decentespresso; 1 Week Ago at 09:31 AM.

  45. #2245
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,995
    Agree. I've tried spacers. Sloppy pucks and better flavour, please. To me, the whole point of the DE is that it is an espresso machine scalpel for unlocking aroma and flavour from coffee that is otherwise difficult to extract.

    I've also had people over who like darker, more traditional espresso roasts and we've been able to get results that they have really enjoyed just by changing the extraction settings. John's default program, gentle and sweet and a few others are really good for those roasts. Note that you usually end up using substantially lower temperatures for dark roasts. Maybe you might be able to make some mouthfeel improvements over those shots; it's not the sort of coffee I'd spend a lot of time experimenting on that for, but I guess the point I'm making is it's not like the machine is terrible for those shots. In fact, I'm kind of dubious that the spacers make much of a difference in mouthfeel, but since I don't drink a lot of coffees where I care about that, I'll defer to others on that.

  46. #2246
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    203
    I drink medium roast espresso, wife drinks darker roast long blacks. I have a 3.0mm version of Sheldon's spacer on a V1.1. I fully agree with John's comments about the benefits of the spacer for these styles of shot.

  47. #2247
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    46
    Hi.

    1) Does anyone in Perth have one of these to check out, please?

    2) How do we sign up for Sale updates for returned buy back machines?

  48. #2248
    Senior Member FineGrind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    130
    Quote Originally Posted by decentespresso View Post
    That's what Matt Perger is doing with his DE1, to test his distribution tool.
    I can't wait to see what Matt has come up with for distribution. It has been a long time in the making.
    level3ninja likes this.

  49. #2249
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,072
    Quote Originally Posted by eljimberino View Post
    Hi.

    1) Does anyone in Perth have one of these to check out, please?

    2) How do we sign up for Sale updates for returned buy back machines?
    For Sale Updates, you can read here. However, we don't currently do sale offers as we are currently able to sell out all the machines we make, at full price.

    For returned or buy back machines, email mirjam@decentespresso.com and let her know what voltage and model you're interested in. However, I do need to warn you that our waiting list has about 50 people on it, and nobody has yet to sell their machine back to us. Everyone seems happy to keep their current machine.

    So, the only used machines we're able to sell is the occasional broken machine that we've taken back from a customer, gave them a new one, and repaired the broken one. There's not more than 1 a month like that.

    As to Perth, I just checked, and you'd be the first in your city with a Decent.

    -john

  50. #2250
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    46
    Okay - Thanks for your reply John.

    Can I buy one in Australia or is the only option thru the website?

    (Sorry for redundant questions)



Page 45 of 46 FirstFirst ... 3543444546 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •