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Thread: Upgraditis Hits - Advice Please

  1. #1
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    Upgraditis Hits - Advice Please

    Hey guys and gals,

    I’d appreciate some advice as it’s upgrade time and I’m totally lost with the amount of machines on the market

    I currently have a first gen Breville Dual Boiler, but the time between servicing/repairs has reduced over time so I’ve decided to bite the bullet and upgrade!

    Budget is around $3k but I can probably get away with another $3/400 with the boss I like the flexibility that the BDB gives in terms of temp control but my main gripes have been weak steam and early blonding when pulling a shot. The dual boiler isn’t a make or break on the next machine tbh, just want to improve shot quality and be able to run steam for 2 coffees. Lever machines are also out as the missus won’t be keen on them. I should also add that I’ve already upgraded my grinder to a Macap M4D.

    Thanks for your thoughts

  2. #2
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Evening Mick, there's a smorgasbord of machines available in your price range.

    I'm biased toward the Bezzera range for obvious reasons, I've had a great run out of my machine and it's still going strong.
    https://www.casaespresso.com.au/domestic-coffee-machines/bezzera.html

    Why not scroll to the bottom of the page and take advantage of the sponsor quote form explaining your requirements, I'm sure you will get a good response.
    eaglemick likes this.

  3. #3
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    Thanks Yelta, they are nice looking machines

    I’ve used the quote form in the past but just wanted to get some views to try and narrow down my options

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    I can vouch for the ecm technika profi with rotary pump, have had it for over 5 years still going strong.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglemick View Post
    Budget is around $3k but I can probably get away with another $3/400 with the boss I like the flexibility that the BDB gives in terms of temp control but my main gripes have been weak steam and early blonding when pulling a shot. The dual boiler isn’t a make or break on the next machine tbh, just want to improve shot quality and be able to run steam for 2 coffees.
    Out in a couple of weeks or so and seems to tick quite a few of your boxes. Almost sounds like its been made to order.

    https://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-equipment-extreme-machines-3000/49642-profitec-pro-600-dual-boiler-0-75l-1l-mid-july.html


    If you only need to make 2 coffees at a time and shot quality and temp control are top of the list there may be another option worth considering.
    It is at the pointy end of single boilers but if you don't need the capacity of an Hx or want to save $1500 on the dual boiler machine listed above, this may be worth a look. The only feature missing is simultaneous brewing/steaming but you gain better temp control than an Hx. Should be equal to the Brew part of most Dual Boilers twice the price but you do need to wait the minute or so to heat-up to steam after brewing.

    https://www.ecm.de/en/products/detai.../classika-pid/
    Last edited by CafeLotta; 11th July 2018 at 08:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    Out in a couple of weeks or so and seems to tick quite a few of your boxes. Almost sounds like its been made to order.
    Looks good. I didn’t realise you have to wait a number of minutes between shot and building up steam pressure so maybe a dual boiler is the way to go! Any difference between steam pressure on dual vs single?

  7. #7
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglemick View Post
    Looks good. I didn’t realise you have to wait a number of minutes between shot and building up steam pressure so maybe a dual boiler is the way to go! Any difference between steam pressure on dual vs single?
    If you get your routine down pat, you should be right to steam 1 or 2 minutes after the second brew I'd imagine. The Profitec 600 dual boiler has a dedicated 1L steam boiler which would have stronger and longer duration steam. The downside is the added cost to purchase and servicing/repair costs would probably be higher with the 2 boilers.

    For 2 coffees at a time (or per day?), the ECM Classika PID (0.75L SS boiler with 1200W element) would easily do the job steaming milk but with the 1 to 2 minute wait before you steam.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJFB2g-AcGQ
    Last edited by CafeLotta; 12th July 2018 at 08:12 AM.
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  8. #8
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    My personal opinion but for only a couple of coffees a day I think a dual boiler is a bit of overkill. A good quality HX for $800-$1000 less will do everything you need. ECM Technika, Bezzera Domus, Profitec Pro 500 all fantastic machines that will not disappoint.
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  9. #9
    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    At $2500 to $3000 you have a fantastic choice of top quality heat exchange machines.

    A few to consider would be the Bezzera Galetea, ECM Mechanika, Izzo Vivi PID.

    Stretch a touch more and you can upspec to a rotary pump, think Bezzera Mitica or ECM Technika RT.

    You will find most of these listed here with specs and info:
    https://www.casaespresso.com.au/dome...-machines.html


    Cheers

    Antony
    www.casaespresso.com.au
    eaglemick likes this.

  10. #10
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    Thanks Antony,

    I guess at the end of the day these are all going to make great coffee and meet my requirement of generating good steam for milk based drinks. The ECM Technika with the rotary pump is pretty tempting mind!

    I just need to show the pics and measurements to the boss lady now for approval

  11. #11
    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    Spot on Eaglemick,

    They are all good options, the decision will come down to your personal preferences (and boss ladys)

    Regards

    Antony
    www.casaespresso.com.au

  12. #12
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcachon View Post
    My personal opinion but for only a couple of coffees a day I think a dual boiler is a bit of overkill.
    It seemed like precise temperature control for a "better" shot was a requirement originally listed. If steam is the main priority, an Hx and developing a good routine would do. Even an Hx with PID won't match the more precise brew temperature control of a dedicated brew boiler with PID (Single or Dual Boiler). The Profitec 600 is interesting because it has a significantly smaller steam boiler than other E61 dual boilers so doesn't seem like overkill if both precise temperature control and strong steam are requirements. For lower output users, its the bridge between E61 based HX and larger dual boiler machines. Horses for courses. If priced competitively, it will put a dent in higher end Hx machine sales.

    At the end of the day, developing good technique (dosing, tamping, grind adjustment etc.) and the skills to work with the strengths and weaknesses of your machine is what's most important. A terrible shot can be equally produced on a low end or high end machine with the wrong technique.
    Last edited by CafeLotta; 12th July 2018 at 05:56 PM.

  13. #13
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    Thanks for all the advice guys!

    I was determined to pick up a machine today so drove over to a nearby CS sponsor, Jetblack Espresso, https://coffeesnobs.com.au/sponsors/...-espresso.html, to check out the ECM and Rocket machines.

    I ended up going for the Rocket Giotto Type R in the end despite being convinced the ECM Technika R was the one I was more interested in before going

    Looking forwards to getting home this arvo and getting some espresso on the go

    Mick

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    It seemed like precise temperature control for a "better" shot was a requirement originally listed. If steam is the main priority, an Hx and developing a good routine would do. Even an Hx with PID won't match the more precise brew temperature control of a dedicated brew boiler with PID (Single or Dual Boiler). The Profitec 600 is interesting because it has a significantly smaller steam boiler than other E61 dual boilers so doesn't seem like overkill if both precise temperature control and strong steam are requirements. For lower output users, its the bridge between E61 based HX and larger dual boiler machines. Horses for courses. If priced competitively, it will put a dent in higher end Hx machine sales.

    At the end of the day, developing good technique (dosing, tamping, grind adjustment etc.) and the skills to work with the strengths and weaknesses of your machine is what's most important. A terrible shot can be equally produced on a low end or high end machine with the wrong technique.
    Thats not how I interpeted the original post. Flexibility of temperature control was cited as a postive aspect for the BDB. In this regard I don't believe a quality HX machine will suffer by comparison to the Breville. "Precise" temperature control is a very different matter.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglemick View Post
    Thanks for all the advice guys!

    I was determined to pick up a machine today so drove over to a nearby CS sponsor, Jetblack Espresso, https://coffeesnobs.com.au/sponsors/...-espresso.html, to check out the ECM and Rocket machines.

    I ended up going for the Rocket Giotto Type R in the end despite being convinced the ECM Technika R was the one I was more interested in before going

    Looking forwards to getting home this arvo and getting some espresso on the go

    Mick
    Great pick up Mick. I doubt you will be suffering any upgraditis for quite a long time.

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