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Thread: Rocket Cellini Evoluzione Pump Issue

  1. #1
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    Rocket Cellini Evoluzione Pump Issue

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hello,

    Last night I cleaned the brew head and everything working fine. The machine is just under 2 years old. This morning I turned the machine on and the pump started running as if the boiler was empty and will not stop nor build pressure. Thoughts please?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
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    Couple of points
    1. You should post in the 1500-3000 section
    2. Sounds like a pump issue but may also be a symptom of other issues such as a faulty over pressure valve
    3. When was the machine last serviced
    4. Is water leaking out of the machine

    If you are not familiar with electrics I would suggest getting the machine serviced by a technician

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    4. Is water leaking out of the machine

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan View Post
    Couple of points
    1. You should post in the 1500-3000 section
    2. Sounds like a pump issue but may also be a symptom of other issues such as a faulty over pressure valve
    3. When was the machine last serviced
    4. Is water leaking out of the machine

    If you are not familiar with electrics I would suggest getting the machine serviced by a technician
    Thanks for the prompt reply. I am new and don't know where the 1500-3000 section is.

    I just pulled the discharge tubing and tried the pump again, no water.... The suction line is clear, but there are two components that are electrically connected and I am not sure what their purpose is. Again, the machine is just less than two years old, was sent back for a cross threaded tube leak repair only. I have no repair shop close that I know of to even begin shipping for a repair. I also descale quarterly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkroman View Post
    4. Is water leaking out of the machine
    No water leaks.

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    Also, I disconnected the suction line and no water drains from the tank. It appears there are two selenoid valves on the suction line with a switch for tank water or direct water connection. The switch is still on the "tank", but it appears there might have been an electrical spark from one of the selenoid areas which appears on the inside cover of the machine. I can't see where it came from though.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
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    I would check if the pump is actually pumping water

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan View Post
    I would check if the pump is actually pumping water
    Read my last three posts...

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    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
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    If you have short to earth, you earth leakage device should have tripped turning your power off. If you have one fitted to your power supply. other than that I can’t help, I don’t have much experience with solenoids

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan View Post
    If you have short to earth, you earth leakage device should have tripped turning your power off. If you have one fitted to your power supply. other than that I can’t help, I don’t have much experience with solenoids
    Thanks Stan. I pulled apart the surgcal tubing and tried to blow through the solenoid with no luck. Then I noticed arcing on the back of the machine cover, and the plastic on the solenoid slightly melted on both sides. Attaching some pictures for thoughts before I try to order a new part. Not being able to blow through is strange even if there is some orifice in the line. Also, my meter died years ago to test it as you describe... :/

    https://gyazo.com/e99520b2ddc41e625ce023c5604bb74c
    https://gyazo.com/93e9eb39013dbf7ee8a74f12b49d4cd2

    https://gyazo.com/0afc0efdb5a9683bec17a91f753e336c
    Last edited by MrBaros; 9th August 2018 at 07:55 PM.

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    Solved... The solenoid from the water tank had failed. Rather than trying to find the part from Italy (which is not listed at Rocket Italy) I elected to remove the valve and drill out the disk. I don't plan to plum the machine to water piping to even need the two solenoid setup and switch anyway. Pump works great again...

    Thanks for eveyone's help. I think this is one in a million as far as problems go and maybe it will help someone else one day.

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    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBaros View Post
    I think this is one in a million as far as problems go and maybe it will help someone else one day.

    If anyone else has this problem I hope they do not follow your path.

    If a solenoid coil burns out you simply detach the coil and replace it: this problem is so common they are made with replaceable coils. All you need is the coil voltage and the spigot size and you'll be able to find the part. Five minutes of searching showed me that Rocket use solenoids from ODE, I think the coil you want is a 230V x 22mm
    Last edited by Lyrebird; 9th August 2018 at 10:34 PM.
    fg1972 likes this.

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    Also if you still have the wires connected to the solenoid the machine will still be trying to power it which could cause heating issues or even melt the solenoid. I personally would change out the solenoid

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    Thanks again for the help. The selonoid was already partially melted (see the links I posted) and I did try and take it apart with no luck. I am in CA, so 110 voltage here and no stock solenoids available for the machine even from Italy.

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    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
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    I've had solenoids in the cooling system at the winery burn out so badly they looked like they'd doubled in size and I've always been able to get them off: you do know how to get the coil off the body?

    You gave no indication you were in the USA, the coil you want is as you say 110V, I would be amazed if there weren't suppliers near you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyrebird View Post
    I've had solenoids in the cooling system at the winery burn out so badly they looked like they'd doubled in size and I've always been able to get them off: you do know how to get the coil off the body?

    You gave no indication you were in the USA, the coil you want is as you say 110V, I would be amazed if there weren't suppliers near you.
    I didn't realize this was a non-US site either. I removed the top nut and tried to pull the solenoid....nothing. The bottom where it bolts to the brass won't budge, but I assume the solonoid would come off with the top nut removed. The Ode link shown above shows the solenoid attached to a brass body and not removing the solenoid. I've searched and found no supplier for this set up. I am fine with the fix I have and don't really want to spend money for another potentially bad solenoid that I don't need on the system anyway. Rest at ease, I also disconnected the wiring.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
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    OK but if you want to return it to stock, the fact that it has a nut on top means it is definitely a removeable coil.

    Try this: remove the top nut and the washer underneath it. Remove the electrical connections to the solenoid. With a large adjustable spanner or similar, grip the body of the coil and give it a twist on the spigot. Continue to twist back and forth whilst pulling it up and off the spigot.

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    Posting in the same thread with a slightly different issue.

    I think the rotary pump in my Evoluzione V2 is on the way out - it's about 6 years old and has had quite heavy use for a home machine. It's plumbed in - but symptoms are the same whether it's running on the tank or water line (pressure reduced to about 2-3 bar and filtered).
    The pump started getting a bit noisy when refilling the boiler about a year ago, that seems to be getting worse. But it's not noisy when pumping through the brew head and seems to be building up pressure okay - but there seems to be a delay (if the portafilter is off, it takes a second or two before water flows through to the brewhead - I'm pretty sure that this used to be immediate - but I could be wrong). I've replaced a boiler element, replaced seals etc in the group - everything seems to be fine. Water is quite soft - scale buildup is negligible - only a trace on the element in the boiler after about 5 years use.
    I'm wondering if I should bite the bullet and get a replacement pump shipped and ready for installation before stripping it down. But I can't nut out why the pump would be quiet when pumping against ~ 9 bar when brewing, vs pumping against ~1 bar when filling the tank - which makes me wonder if it's not the pump - but some other issue.

    As an afterthought, after looking at the schematic, I'm wondering if the pump is actually okay, and the noise is coming from a loose coil on a solenoid. Unless someone suggests otherwise, I'll wait before ordering a pump, strip the machine down and have a better look to see if I can work out what's going on.
    Last edited by Bobrob; 8th September 2018 at 08:06 AM.

  19. #19
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    Sounds like the HX circuit is draining, a few possible causes;

    - check the three piston seals in the group
    - check the o-ring on the bottom of the mushroom
    - Check HX one way valve or solenoids in brew path

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    Quote Originally Posted by kofekitt View Post
    Sounds like the HX circuit is draining, a few possible causes;

    - check the three piston seals in the group
    - check the o-ring on the bottom of the mushroom
    - Check HX one way valve or solenoids in brew path
    Yes - I agree. I think there are two problems - the self-draining of the Hx circuit (which I think is recent - it's a couple of years since I replaced the seals - so that job is probably due - and pretty easy), but that's not explaining the "pump" noise - which may be not be a faulty pump but a noisy solenoid. It's filling the tank in normal time too - when I've read of rotary pump faults, the problem discussed seems to be noise when extracting coffee / failing to build pressure. I'll strip it down next week and take a look - I might be able to use a piece of garden hose to locate where the noise is coming from if it's not obvious when operating it with the covers off (with obvious care over electrical safety).



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