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Thread: ECM Giotto Premium Plus - eBay 'bargain' from US arrived today....

  1. #1
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    ECM Giotto Premium Plus - eBay 'bargain' from US arrived today....

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    So, I haven't gotten home to open the box yet, but my 'bargain' ECM Giotto Premium Plus arrived today.

    Why 'bargain' and not Bargain?

    Well, the price was good, with a 10% eBay discount, and shipping from East Coast USA was reasonable, but GST and conversion pushed price to just over $1k AUD. So reasonable, but not really cheap.

    And it does need work. Seller says just a new pump, but hmmmm... I bet it needs more.

    Also not as much a bargain as I've since seen a good condition working one, with a semi decent grinder for $1000 on sunshine coast, and no apparently a 'new' one for AUD$1650 in Melbs. Must be new-old stock I'm guessing though, or some sort of fake, as it's definitely badge ECM.

    Anyway, when i get mine opened up, and see where I stand I'll update... with photos.

  2. #2
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    Ummmmmm , just checking - you know USA uses 110 volt and we use 240 volt?
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  3. #3
    Senior Member noidle22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kofekitt View Post
    Ummmmmm , just checking - you know USA uses 110 volt and we use 240 volt?
    That is going to be an unpleasant surprise if he doesn't know. RIP the repair budget.

  4. #4
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    They are a beautiful design. Worst case, its a decent kitchen sculpture.

    Cheers
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  5. #5
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    All good, have already factored in a 240V to 110V 1500W step down transformer.....

  6. #6
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    Or will that not do the trick?

  7. #7
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    If it's a machine with a Rotary Pump, then you will also have to change-out the Start/Run Capacitor since the US uses a 60Hz mains supply, whereas we use 50Hz...

    Mal.

  8. #8
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    It's a vibe pump. Will I still run into a freq issue? (obviously I should have asked these questions before I purchased....)

  9. #9
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    It should be Ok...
    At worst, you may have to install a Dropping Resistor to compensate for the slightly higher current flow.

    Mal.

  10. #10
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    Okay, update. Turns out the US bought eBay Giotto was in worse conditioned than described, and drip tray bracket and feet were damaged in transit. eBay seller provided a full refund, so I bought the working Giotto on Sunshine Coast, yo be picked up by courier tomorrow or Tuesday.

    The working one was actually slightly cheaper than the non working US eBay one, and even comes with a semi decent grinder (surplus to requirements as I have a fairly new Quamar Q50S).

    At least I'll have a few spares, as the eBay seller doesnt want his one returned.

    So it may be that with selling the extra grinder, my current La Pavoni Europicola and maybe the extra Giotto I should have a cost free upgrade!
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
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    I'm always on the lookout for donor machines for my dastardly experiments. The 110V doesn't worry me as I will discard the pump and control board anyway and the element is a $150 changeover. PM sent.
    Last edited by Lyrebird; 28th October 2018 at 07:16 PM.
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  12. #12
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Dastardly, eh?
    You don't have a long black pencil moustache do you Lb...

    Mal.
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  13. #13
    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
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    I have a cunning plan, m'lord....
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  14. #14
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Is it as cunning as a fox that had recently been made a professor of cunning at Oxford University?
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  15. #15
    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
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    To continue this thread: I bought the machine above from fotografa, intending to use it as a second donor body for my variable speed pump experiments, which would probably mean it sat on the shelf for a while until I worked on the first.

    When it turned up I removed the covers (no easy feat given that some idiot Septic had replaced some of the screws with zinc plated non metric screws)



    Start

    and worked out that I could convert it to 240V fairly cheaply and use it at the winery (replacing my old Silvia) until the variable speed experiment is ready.

    I stripped out all the 120V bits:




    The element, solenoid coil, controller and pump will all need to be replaced with 240V versions. The wiring is in poor condition so that might as well be replaced too. I happened to have a suitable controller and pump (and the associated wiring harness) which came out of the first donor machine so that’s a straight swap.










    The mains switch is marked with a 240V rating so it can stay. I forgot to include the Sirai pstat in the pic, it is also marked with a 240V rating.

    I couldn’t find ratings on the thermostat, the brew switch or the indicator lamp (neon, I think). The brew switch is no drama, it's in poor condition and I was going to replace it with a roller plunger switch in any case. The indicator is almost certainly 120V so out it goes. I am pretty sure the thermostat is 240V but “pretty sure” doesn’t cut it with mains components so out it goes too.






    I ordered the replacement parts today from JetBlack as they had a good price on the element (the most expensive part) and had all the other bits in stock. Total came to $175 including shipping. If I’d had to buy a new controller, harness and pump that would add another $380 which would have rendered the project a non-starter.

    Sorry for the lousy pics, I'm no fotografa.

    TBC.
    Last edited by Lyrebird; 10th November 2018 at 09:07 AM.
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  16. #16
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Nice outcome Lb...

    Mal.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
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    Quick update: the parts arrived from JetBlack and I found I'd ordered the wrong size Parker solenoid coil: I should have known it was too big as it's the size we use on the chiller system at the winery. I'll get around this by swapping out the entire solenoid as I have a spare 240V AC solenoid (an ODE) since I've changed the one on the other machine to a 24V DC ex SMC.

    Checked the new thermostat and found the ratings, checked the old one and it is indeed 240V rated so I could have used it.

    Meanwhile I've cleaned up the chassis which was in fairly poor nick:


    Chassis before

    Some of the features on this confirm my prejudice against Italian engineering as being more concerned with form than function: the feet in the above pic are held on with long M4 screws, all of which are bent and 3/5 of which have damaged the rivnut to which the fix in the chassis. Partly this is because the whole drip tray assembly is cantilevered off the front of the machine and, to make matters worse, two of the feet are attached to this. No wonder it bent.

    I hacked together a couple of support brackets and replaced the feet with much stronger ones (M6, which in theory will be about 5 times as stiff), the brackets are SS but the feet I could get off the shelf are in gal so I'll have to replace them at some stage.


    Bracing

    As you can probably tell I've done a basic rust removal and respray, I think I'll get the thing re-powdercoated eventually.
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  18. #18
    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
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    So I finally got around to rewiring this thing this week, only to find that despite both being labelled "Gicar RL30 Micro ST" the two controllers are not the same: the one out of the Izzo (240V) is missing one relay and connection compared to the one out of the ECM (120V). The boards, however, bear the same design number and look to be identical.


    RL_30s_1

    There are five options as I see it:

    1. Buy a new controller (about $250).

    2. Use one of my DIY controllers (about $60).

    3. Replace the power transformer on the 120V controller with a new 240V Tx (about $6).

    4. Swap the transformers from board to board (no cost but I end up with one non functioning board).

    5. Rejig the control schema for the ECM to suit the Izzo controller (no cost but a bit of faffing about).

    I opted for #3, a suitable transformer* is available off the shelf from RS components but stock is in the UK so there's a 5 day lead time. I'm impatient to finish (despite having done nothing for weeks) so I decided to swap the transformers now and put the new transformer on the donor board when it arrives.



    RL_30s_2


    RL_30_noTx

    Surgery seemed successful and the patient lived, so on to wiring it up.

    In the end I used the fibreglass sheathed wiring from the Izzo for anything attached to the boiler and new PVC insulated wire for just about everything else.


    Wired

    Testing will have to wait until Monday. Once I have it working I'll post up the wiring schematic, I couldn't find one so I drew it myself.




    * It's not the same but it looks like it can be hacked to suit. I'll post a thread on this when it arrives and I mount it up.
    Last edited by Lyrebird; 7th December 2018 at 09:56 PM.
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  19. #19
    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
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    Replacement transformer arrived today. The original Tx has a 2VA rating, the 12V single secondary transformer available had only 1.5 VA so I opted for a 2 x 6V unit with a 2.3 VA rating (RS stock number 1213827) . Of course this means it has extra pins but the PCB is already drilled to accept those pins:


    RL_30_Tx

    The secondaries are laid out to allow easy connection in series so all that was required is a single wire linking pins 6 and 10:


    RL_30_Tx_wire
    Last edited by Lyrebird; 13th December 2018 at 10:05 PM.
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