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Thread: Advice needed: replacing my now twice-faulty BES920

  1. #1
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    Advice needed: replacing my now twice-faulty BES920

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    So, I'm a bit fed up with my current machine, and want to move into the pointy end. I've had the 920 for 4.5 years now, and it has needed repairs twice; the second time is right now. I believe it's the solenoid (again). Took great care of it, two coffees a day, and did all the right things; got a lemon I guess.

    Symptoms are basically that once starting a cycle, the pre-infusion happens for the usual 7 odd seconds, but then a noisier "pump" doesn't kick in. I've worked out that if I fully flush the boilers (via the descale port), it comes good again for 10 or so shots. Will be trying my luck and having a go at Breville for a repair, and then moving on from it.

    My summary: I'm no barista, but know my good vs bad taste, and I'm an engineer, so not afraid of a process of getting the right coffee based on grind, etc. I'm in Victoria.

    Anyway, looking at an Italian machine, something along the lines of a Magister. Brewing house down the road wants $2,100 for the Magister Stella Pro. They say "parts only" warranty though, and the short answers have me cautious. The other warning light is that I basically can't seem to find this brand sold anywhere in Australia (at least Vic)... odd.

    Based on what I can tell, I'd want an E61, no fancy electronics (another bad point for the 920), so easier/cheaper to service/repair, and stainless steel is always sexy. Budget up to around the $2k mark. I think I've read here to perhaps avoid the Quickmill stuff?

    I've never descaled (that warning on the 920 conveniently popped up each time for repair), and I think I'd need to filter the water as well to potentially avoid scaling issues?

    So... yeah. Any help appreciated, as I'm pretty sure I only have a week or so left with this damned 920.

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    I was in your position a few weeks ago and went through Expobar Office Leva.

    A fine machine albeit a little rough around the edges in terms of cosmetic finishing.

    $2K.
    A very fair price imo for an E61 HX that is as capable as machines $3K+

    I purchased new from CoffeeARoma.

    No PID which many will claim is important, but I prefer the lack of electronics. My research suggests the machine should last 10+ years without any major $ spent, the typical issues around 10 years are minor $50 replacement parts that are user replaceable which means no delivery of the machine to a workshop and no downtime.
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    Quote Originally Posted by flort View Post
    I've had the 920 for 4.5 years now, and it has needed repairs twice; the second time is right now.
    Just to manage expectations, it's likely that even a good european made machine is going to need servicing once or twice in that sort of timeframe. There are wear and tear parts that need to be replaced every couple of years, like anti vac valves, pressurestats, valves and seals.

    The difference I guess is that the main dealers like the site sponsors can service most common machines that they sell, and parts are often pretty standard. With a service every couple of years, good machines will perform for many years.
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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Donít buy a Magister.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Don’t buy a Magister.
    Why is that mate?

    Mal.

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    For around $2K the Lelit Mara is worth considering too - temperature stable HX with E61 with good parts availability.

    charlie

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    Oh, this thread lit up finally, thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by BobSac View Post
    I was in your position a few weeks ago and went through Expobar Office Leva.
    Yep, nice, that's exactly what I did.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobSac View Post
    A fine machine albeit a little rough around the edges in terms of cosmetic finishing.

    $2K.
    A very fair price imo for an E61 HX that is as capable as machines $3K+
    Yeah. And you know what? That's what I love about the Leva... I love that it's rough. It weighs a ton, is tough, and super good looking to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobSac View Post
    No PID which many will claim is important, but I prefer the lack of electronics. My research suggests the machine should last 10+ years without any major $ spent, the typical issues around 10 years are minor $50 replacement parts that are user replaceable which means no delivery of the machine to a workshop and no downtime.
    Exactly what I found too. Totally agree on the lack of electronics as well, which is ultimately what bit me with the BES920. Too complicated inside.

    I'm still fighting the dialin phase. I'm getting there. The Breville grinder I have probably isn't helping, but making progress. I'm using the single shot filter, but in the double porta; easier to tamp I think because of the two spouts. Struggled initially with the single, because I think I wasn't leaving enough room for the gap to the shower.

    Current issues are:


    • Just not enough flow, but tuning that slowly with grind size, amount, etc. Having to run a bit longer than I think I should be
    • Very dry pucks at the end; not sure if this is just normal with pointy-end machines? Makes binning them quite hard
    • Hitting 11+ BAR when extracting; not sure if the grind is still too fine or what
    • Pretty average steaming. The BES had the wand on the right, and I'm left-handed, so it's like I'm two years old again learning to write, I had a laugh

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    If you're implying "go search and read", I did all that. Thought I'd start up a thread anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    Just to manage expectations, it's likely that even a good european made machine is going to need servicing once or twice in that sort of timeframe. There are wear and tear parts that need to be replaced every couple of years, like anti vac valves, pressurestats, valves and seals.

    The difference I guess is that the main dealers like the site sponsors can service most common machines that they sell, and parts are often pretty standard. With a service every couple of years, good machines will perform for many years.
    Yeah, servicing is one thing. Faults is another. I totally get that there are "moving parts" so to speak, but this was beyond a joke I feel. Not a lie, only doing two cups a day. It wasn't getting hammered, and was well looked after.

    I laughed when the service guy the first time around half had a go at me for not caring for it; I did everything as instructed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Why is that mate?

    Mal.
    Glad I didn't, but also interested as to why... it's why I was hesitant on them, and posed it here; distinct lack of noise around them.

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Why is that mate?

    Mal.
    I could be harsh and say that theyíre crap. Maybe a nicer way of saying it is- for around $2000 there are at least 3 or 4 other brands that offer much better value for money. Iíd suggest the OP fills in the quote form on CS to see what site sponsors have at that price point at the moment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by flort View Post
    Yeah, servicing is one thing. Faults is another. I totally get that there are "moving parts" so to speak, but this was beyond a joke I feel. Not a lie, only doing two cups a day. It wasn't getting hammered, and was well looked after.

    I laughed when the service guy the first time around half had a go at me for not caring for it; I did everything as instructed.
    If the service tech said something to imply that the level of care couldíve been better heís probably seen some evidence to indicate this other than the fault. I would try not to take offense and listen to any advice they might have on proper care, cleaning and preventative maintenance. Note that what Breville direct you to do in the manual is what I would consider very much the bare minimum and would be a lot lower level of care than most machines owned by forum members would receive. Itís one of the most important things to learn as a $4000 prosumer machine can be killed just as quickly as an appliance brand machine without due care.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    If the service tech said something to imply that the level of care couldíve been better heís probably seen some evidence to indicate this other than the fault. I would try not to take offense and listen to any advice they might have on proper care, cleaning and preventative maintenance.
    The best he came up with was that I was tightening the group too much, and the o-ring was borked. That was his only advice, other than to say "yep, we see these machines all the time, with the solenoid being the main thing." $82 on it's own.

    Meanwhile, this was the repair list:

    • Inner shower screen
    • One way valve
    • Solenoid ("cpl" I think?)
    • O-rings
    • OPV


    I'm obviously no expert, but some of that seems wear and tear, and some not.

    He may have also caught wiff of it being a repair covered under extended warranty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flort View Post
    I'm still fighting the dialin phase. I'm getting there. The Breville grinder I have probably isn't helping, but making progress. I'm using the single shot filter, but in the double porta; easier to tamp I think because of the two spouts. Struggled initially with the single, because I think I wasn't leaving enough room for the gap to the shower.

    Current issues are:
    • Just not enough flow, but tuning that slowly with grind size, amount, etc. Having to run a bit longer than I think I should be
    • Very dry pucks at the end; not sure if this is just normal with pointy-end machines? Makes binning them quite hard
    • Hitting 11+ BAR when extracting; not sure if the grind is still too fine or what
    This sounds to me like it could all be caused by overdosing. How many grams of coffee are you putting in this single basket?
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    This sounds to me like it could all be caused by overdosing. How many grams of coffee are you putting in this single basket?
    Not sure, will have to weigh it. I've read it's around 16g for a double - what do you recommend for the single in a Leva, stock basket?

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    Ok, so I dosed up this morning, and weighed it. Came in around 14g, though I dosed a little less than yesterday. Flow was ok, but didn't stay dark long, and went light brown quickly.

    The shot was weak. Dry puck.

    Logic tells me that I would have to make the grind finer at the same dose, but not sure.

  18. #18
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    I don't know the Leva well enough to suggest a dose for the single basket, but 14g sounds high. Yes, as you lower the dose the grind will need to get finer. What's your grinder set to?

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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    I don't know the Leva well enough to suggest a dose for the single basket, but 14g sounds high. Yes, as you lower the dose the grind will need to get finer. What's your grinder set to?
    Got to agree with that.
    The symptoms point to overdosing and coarse grind.
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    Thanks for the help thus far!

    First, the grinder is a Breville BCGxxx I think. Little LCD panel, with just a horizontal series of markers, so couldn't really articulate it to you. Definitely towards the fine end though.

    More experimentation: dialled up even finer, got out the scales and ground a 8g amount. Looked waaaaaaayyyy too little, even for the single basket. Barely filled it halfway, but gave it a go anyway. I seriously doubt the tamping worked well.

    Not all that good. Doesn't taste terrible, but nowhere near good. Puck was a lot wetter, and as expected, was pocked etc (way too little grind, methinks).

    Using basic logic, to get more in it, something else has to change... grind size vs weight. Sticking with say, 8g, if I go coarser, it'll of course fill more basket, but probably run too fast. I went finer, and ended up with same weight, but heaps less to fill the basket.

    Gut tells me I need to end up with heaps more in the basket, which means heaps more weight, or coarser.

    Spent a good part of today googling for volumes for the single basket, and have seen anywhere from 7-12. Ugh.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by flort View Post
    Thanks for the help thus far!

    First, the grinder is a Breville BCGxxx I think. Little LCD panel, with just a horizontal series of markers, so couldn't really articulate it to you. Definitely towards the fine end though.
    It should have a number displayed in the bottom right of the screen that is the grind setting.

    Quote Originally Posted by flort View Post
    More experimentation: dialled up even finer, got out the scales and ground a 8g amount. Looked waaaaaaayyyy too little, even for the single basket. Barely filled it halfway, but gave it a go anyway. I seriously doubt the tamping worked well.

    Not all that good. Doesn't taste terrible, but nowhere near good. Puck was a lot wetter, and as expected, was pocked etc (way too little grind, methinks).

    Using basic logic, to get more in it, something else has to change... grind size vs weight. Sticking with say, 8g, if I go coarser, it'll of course fill more basket, but probably run too fast. I went finer, and ended up with same weight, but heaps less to fill the basket.

    Gut tells me I need to end up with heaps more in the basket, which means heaps more weight, or coarser.

    Spent a good part of today googling for volumes for the single basket, and have seen anywhere from 7-12. Ugh.
    So you've tried 14g and 8g and nothing in the middle? Sounds like it'll be in there somewhere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    It should have a number displayed in the bottom right of the screen that is the grind setting.
    Yeah, nah. This is the BCG800, readout looks like this:




    So you've tried 14g and 8g and nothing in the middle? Sounds like it'll be in there somewhere.
    I've now tried in the middle, no real difference. I've read a lot of hate for the single baskets... maybe that's it?

    First cup this morning, I kinda half filled (loose) the basket... weak. Second, I went nuts and filled it like one would with a double basket, turned the grinder one or two clicks toward coarse... stronger, but still not there. Interestingly, the puck was dry unlike the first cup; perhaps that proves overdosing.

    I was using the single basket with the Breville, stacked fairly well. Perhaps the "sweet spot" for me between the two machines is that I'm looking for a almost 1.5 of the Leva single. If so, I see myself using the double and wasting coffee, sadly.

    A little in no-mands land at the moment!

  23. #23
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    Ah, that's right. It's been a few years since I owned an 800. Are you weighing your doses every time? It's pretty necessary to do so with any Breville SG as the weight of coffee they output in a given time can vary wildly shot to shot, which will make it near impossible to dial in properly. Pick a dose, say 11g, and stick with it for a while. Adjust through grind setting little by little until you're getting around 22g in the cup in 25-30s. You want to get consistent enough with it that you can pull 5 shots in a row and have them all within 1g yield and 1-2s time. Once you've done that if the dose isn't working change it by 1g and adjust the grind to suit and do it all again. Single baskets will amplify any inconsistencies or problems so it's best to take them slow and not change too much too quickly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by flort View Post
    Oh, this thread lit up finally, thanks



    Yep, nice, that's exactly what I did.


    Yeah. And you know what? That's what I love about the Leva... I love that it's rough. It weighs a ton, is tough, and super good looking to me.



    Exactly what I found too. Totally agree on the lack of electronics as well, which is ultimately what bit me with the BES920. Too complicated inside.

    I'm still fighting the dialin phase. I'm getting there. The Breville grinder I have probably isn't helping, but making progress. I'm using the single shot filter, but in the double porta; easier to tamp I think because of the two spouts. Struggled initially with the single, because I think I wasn't leaving enough room for the gap to the shower.

    Current issues are:


    • Just not enough flow, but tuning that slowly with grind size, amount, etc. Having to run a bit longer than I think I should be
    • Very dry pucks at the end; not sure if this is just normal with pointy-end machines? Makes binning them quite hard
    • Hitting 11+ BAR when extracting; not sure if the grind is still too fine or what
    • Pretty average steaming. The BES had the wand on the right, and I'm left-handed, so it's like I'm two years old again learning to write, I had a laugh
    The steam on the Office Leva sucks.
    I'm trying to fix it too.

    I think it's the fact that it has too much flow, i.e. too many or too large holes. My Silvia does a much, MUCH better job.

    Mine was set to 12.5 bar new, I eventually found the dial and reduced it to 9, then back up to 10, then 11, now down to 10 again where it seems best.

    I've used my 10 year old Sunbeam EM0840 (or whatever the numbers are) and it's OK, so I doubt it's the grinder, but a better grinder will give you more consistency.



    I use a Macap M7D and it's much better than the back-up Sunbram for easy and consistent shots.

    My pucks were dry when the machine was new and I was dialling in the settings, but now they tap out easily and super clean.

    Hope that helps.
    Last edited by BobSac; 4 Weeks Ago at 11:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flort View Post
    • Hitting 11+ BAR when extracting; not sure if the grind is still too fine or what
    • Pretty average steaming.
    That's what I call a box seller machine. The reseller picked up a box, took a margin and did precisely nothing else. Not good enough to leave a bench test to the end user.

    Expobar Office machines should have stellar steam. Valves are really narrow and this compromises steam from a large boiler with a big element. A simple valve change would improve steam performance dramatically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobSac View Post
    The steam on the Office Leva sucks.
    I'm trying to fix it too.

    I think it's the fact that it has too much flow, i.e. too many or too large holes. My Silvia does a much, MUCH better job.
    Sorry, let me clarify my original statement -- I meant my steaming skills were bad, not the machine itself.

    That said, I have noticed on first use from cold, it needs a good 8+ seconds of run while it kinda coughs and splutters, before "just" steam is emitted.

    I've also noticed there is a much shorter window between starting and "right temp, turn off" compared to the BES920. Gives me far less time to texture.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobSac View Post
    Mine was set to 12.5 bar new, I eventually found the dial and reduced it to 9, then back up to 10, then 11, now down to 10 again where it seems best.
    Interesting. I haven't yet put the stopper in to see what mine truly runs at. How did you decide "seems best"?

    Quote Originally Posted by BobSac View Post
    I use a Macap M7D and it's much better than the back-up Sunbram for easy and consistent shots.
    Wow. Expensive machine. Not sure I can go there; to me that's a nuts amount of money. Each their own

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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    Are you weighing your doses every time?
    I wasn't, but with your advice here, I am now.

    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    Pick a dose, say 11g, and stick with it for a while. Adjust through grind setting little by little until you're getting around 22g in the cup in 25-30s.
    Ok. Started this today.

    Run 1: I had a laugh, ended up with around 60+ mls, fail, finer grind
    Run 2: Much better, getting there, around 25mls in 25 seconds, taste is getting there!

    Next run, I might go for 13-14g, ratio as above, to see if I can get that final "kick". Sound logical? Seems massively OD'd, but maybe that's just the nature of this combo of machine, the basket, the beans I'm using, and the taste I want. Still much better than wasting half of a double I think.

    Thanks heaps thus far, ninja! Will report more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caffeinator View Post
    That's what I call a box seller machine. The reseller picked up a box, took a margin and did precisely nothing else. Not good enough to leave a bench test to the end user.

    Expobar Office machines should have stellar steam. Valves are really narrow and this compromises steam from a large boiler with a big element. A simple valve change would improve steam performance dramatically.
    I think I might agree with you here. I didn't know what to expect, post-sales, to be honest. I'm not going to name the place, because otherwise the experience/chat/advice was good I thought.

    Again, re my earlier clarification, I don't think there's an issue with the steamer... maybe there is.

    What are you saying though? That out of the box, the Leva steam is compromised and needs a valve change, or it should be great out of the box, but can be made even better? I do wonder about all the cough/splutter I mention above though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caffeinator View Post
    That's what I call a box seller machine. The reseller picked up a box, took a margin and did precisely nothing else. Not good enough to leave a bench test to the end user.
    Expobar Office machines should have stellar steam. Valves are really narrow and this compromises steam from a large boiler with a big element. A simple valve change would improve steam performance dramatically.
    I think they set/leave them at 11bar?
    Some users may prefer it at 11, I'm running 10 now, but they may change, maybe 9, maybe 11.
    It's not a big deal to adjust brew pressure on the Office Leva, but what was annoying was that my adjustment 'knob' wasn't located where it was supposed to be, I needed to open the machine and massage the plumbing a little. That's mildly annoying for 5-10 minutes.

    Yes, a Profitec or Rocket probably wouldn't have these issues, but I wasn't going to pay $800 more for Appartamento and, I'm sure I'm alone here, I don't like the Rocket branding splashed all over their machines, I've removed the Expobar nameplate from mine and painted the back cover (see below) to match it to the grinder which was also torn down and customised. After I purchase a product I like not to continue advertising for the company that manufactured it. Again, I'm sure I'm alone here, I'm sure most users love the rocket branding especially.


    Quote Originally Posted by flort View Post
    Sorry, let me clarify my original statement -- I meant my steaming skills were bad, not the machine itself.

    That said, I have noticed on first use from cold, it needs a good 8+ seconds of run while it kinda coughs and splutters, before "just" steam is emitted.

    I've also noticed there is a much shorter window between starting and "right temp, turn off" compared to the BES920. Gives me far less time to texture.



    Interesting. I haven't yet put the stopper in to see what mine truly runs at. How did you decide "seems best"?



    Wow. Expensive machine. Not sure I can go there; to me that's a nuts amount of money. Each their own

    The stream might be good if you're steaming much more milk than for a single serve, I haven't tried. I prefer a single hole tip with more pressure as a result (I think that's how it works).
    I'd describe the steaming characteristics of the Expobar as unforgiving, perhaps a much more skilled barista would be able to show me what I'm doing wrong.

    The M7D is probably a bit much, as you can see, the $50 Sunbeam that's 10 years old (no service or burr replacement) did OK, the Macap is used because we're now making 25-35 coffees a day and the 3 second vs 20 second grind time is nice, so is the perfect consistency shot to shot.

    Our coffee's now take 1 min each from grind to serve:

    https://youtu.be/jvTPl1RHd3M

    We're using the Expobar in a semi-commercial environment, the coffee is for customers and they're free, so we're prioritising quality, but also careful of cost.
    I couldn't justify this set up if it was for myself at home, so if that's you, you're very lucky! Enjoy, the machine does get better as you learn it's strengths and weaknesses, like any product really
    Last edited by BobSac; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flort View Post
    Run 1: I had a laugh, ended up with around 60+ mls, fail, finer grind
    Run 2: Much better, getting there, around 25mls in 25 seconds, taste is getting there!

    Next run, I might go for 13-14g, ratio as above, to see if I can get that final "kick". Sound logical? Seems massively OD'd, but maybe that's just the nature of this combo of machine, the basket, the beans I'm using, and the taste I want. Still much better than wasting half of a double I think.

    Thanks heaps thus far, ninja! Will report more.
    When you measure the yield, measure it in grams rather than mls, gives you a better idea of what's going on. If you're consistently able to get the same results at 11g and it's not doing it for you then try 12 or 13, you'll need to experiment to find what works best. If you try changing too much too quickly you end up changing more than one thing at a time and getting inconsistent results. As this machine is new to you I'd recommend taking it quite slowly until you can guess pretty well what each change is going to do.

    In regards to grinders, they're more important than you might think. If at some point you are wanting to improve your quality look at upgrading the grinder as the first port of call. Something like a Macap M2 series or the Compak K3 series are great little home grinders. For not much more money though you could get a Mahlkoenig Vario, which punch well above their weight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    When you measure the yield, measure it in grams rather than mls, gives you a better idea of what's going on.
    Sorry, I meant grams! So yes, doing it as advised I'm literally grinding, weighing, tamp, time, run into a small glass, then weighing again.

    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    In regards to grinders, they're more important than you might think. If at some point you are wanting to improve your quality look at upgrading the grinder as the first port of call. Something like a Macap M2 series or the Compak K3 series are great little home grinders. For not much more money though you could get a Mahlkoenig Vario, which punch well above their weight.
    Didn't want to give the impression that I think better quality grinder != worth it. I totally get it. For home, I just can't get my head around how (in my opinion) insanely expensive they are.

    Will check out those models though, thankyou!

  32. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    132
    Quote Originally Posted by flort View Post
    .What are you saying though? That out of the box, the Leva steam is compromised and needs a valve change, or it should be great out of the box, but can be made even better?
    My opinion is that the salesperson should also be walking you through pros and cons to help you choose appropriately.

    The OPV should be set correctly and that the machine should be opened and inspected for faults and leaks and then run up to check that it's operating correctly. Heartbreak (if any) should happen to the sales bloke, not to you. Good operations do this. Box sellers may promise the world, but ultimately care only about the next box that they can shift. You can get that level of service from any cheap appliance store, but it's not acceptable from a specialist operation.

    The Office leva has a good size boiler and plenty of element capacity. The very narrow valves fitted form an effective choke in my opinion. Opening restrictions to the steam wand would improve steam performance.
    Dimal likes this.

  33. #33
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by Caffeinator View Post
    My opinion is that the salesperson should also be walking you through pros and cons to help you choose appropriately.

    The OPV should be set correctly and that the machine should be opened and inspected for faults and leaks and then run up to check that it's operating correctly. Heartbreak (if any) should happen to the sales bloke, not to you. Good operations do this. Box sellers may promise the world, but ultimately care only about the next box that they can shift. You can get that level of service from any cheap appliance store, but it's not acceptable from a specialist operation.

    The Office leva has a good size boiler and plenty of element capacity. The very narrow valves fitted form an effective choke in my opinion. Opening restrictions to the steam wand would improve steam performance.
    I now officially have a fog of buyers remorse. I do agree with you, except the choosing; I had already basically done the research and chosen. It was all rather hands-off I admit; there were no other close shops that had the Leva though.

    The machine appears all good. Just not 100% sure on the BAR, and the initial steam spluttering.

    What do you recommend? Get the seller over to have a look, or...

  34. #34
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    16
    So, an update. I've persisted with the single basket, and I think I have results.

    I've now gotten 14g into the single, with a 28g yield. Until today, I wasn't happy with the taste though, and about the only thing I tweaked was steaming length; perhaps the flat or off taste I had prior was purely down to milk technique? Burning it perhaps.

    I am seeing a slight screen imprint at this dose, so I still need to tweak a little more, just not sure how. More tamping won't help, I don't think. Less grams, weaker. Coarser, same grams maybe? Brain tells me finer, but I'm now at the max there, the machine chokes going any finer.

    I tried underdosing the double basket, with varying levels of fail. I assume I'd need 20g or so for the double to "work", and that'd be too much of a hit for me, and also don't wanna throw half away.

    Wondering if I just need some kinda middleground basket... 16-18g perhaps?

    Funny, I also pulled out my Breville single basket, and it seemingly worked heaps better all round. Only got it working that one day though. They appear the same capacity, only difference is less of a bend/curve halfday vertically down -- the Expobar one is more... bulgey.



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