Results 1 to 23 of 23
Like Tree11Likes
  • 2 Post By Caffeinator
  • 2 Post By WhatEverBeansNecessary
  • 1 Post By Caffeinator
  • 1 Post By RobertJHC
  • 2 Post By Dimal
  • 2 Post By flashpixx
  • 1 Post By Adam76

Thread: Filtration system

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    50

    Filtration system

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hey guys,
    Looking for advice on the different filtration options out there without going all out, plumbed in, RO or anything like that.

    I'm currently using a cheap Britta water filter jug, but I'm pretty sure it's doing nothing at all....

    It's probably the total water hardness that I would think the most important thing to eliminate?

    My last HX machine l used to use Mt Franklin bottled water but the wife didn't like all the bottles and the constant cost.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    2,797
    Don't Brita filters reduce limescale?

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    248
    Impossible to advise you without any data on your water. Have it professionally tested and then come back to your thread.

    Your current setup will remove dirt and algal spores from it and that's about it. Brita jugs have negligible to zero effect when it comes to softening water.
    Dimal and flashpixx like this.

  4. #4
    Senior Member WhatEverBeansNecessary's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    491
    I can definitely recommend a chat to the team at Bombora, but first if you want to get serious you should get your tap water tested. Once you have it tested you can see what you need reduce- is it TDS hardness etc.

    Personally I have a bench top filter system which is good because I am renting so I don't need to do any kitchen mods and can take it with me. It also makes drinking water far more palatable and I change the filter cartridge every 6 ish months. Cost about $120 from memory and spare cartridges about $40.
    Dimal and level3ninja like this.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    96
    If your machine has a tank (not plumbed in) then you can buy those small water softener filters that attach to the end of the water intake tubing. They last a couple of months before you have to “recharge” them by a process involving soaking them in salty water and heating(?). I’ve got 4 that I rotate every 2 months before I recharge the lot in one go. Most online coffee places sell them. They are probably not as effective as RO and other expensive systems but they do soften the water to some degree. I also use a standard water filter system to remove chlorine.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    248
    Nope- you don't rely on an inline filter to do appreciably more than a Brita...
    Dimal likes this.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    50
    Quote Originally Posted by WhatEverBeansNecessary View Post
    I can definitely recommend a chat to the team at Bombora, but first if you want to get serious you should get your tap water tested. Once you have it tested you can see what you need reduce- is it TDS hardness etc.

    Personally I have a bench top filter system which is good because I am renting so I don't need to do any kitchen mods and can take it with me. It also makes drinking water far more palatable and I change the filter cartridge every 6 ish months. Cost about $120 from memory and spare cartridges about $40.
    Thanks, I'll get the water tested asap.

    What bench top system do you have?
    Cheers

  8. #8
    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    574
    Quote Originally Posted by Caffeinator View Post
    Brita jugs have negligible to zero effect when it comes to softening water.
    They have very little effect on TDS but they do soften the water, by substituting monovalent (sodium) cations for divalent (calcium and magnesium) ones. This is quite effective at reducing scale formation.

    Unfortunately this means it is very hard to measure when the resin is exhausted: the easiest and cheapest way is complexometric titration against EDTA using Eriochrome black as indicator. The test is easier than it sounds.
    Last edited by Lyrebird; 1 Week Ago at 09:46 AM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    248
    Try one with 200ppm hardness (or more) which is not uncommon in parts of Australia

  10. #10
    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    574
    In that situation it will exhaust more quickly. A back of the envelope calculation suggests that their stated capacity of 100 litres per recharge is pretty conservative, even with 200 ppm water. Assuming you are quoting hardness as CaCO3, 200 ppm = 2 μM = 4 μEq so their 100 litres is 400 microequivalents. Even the tiny quantity of resin they put in these things will handle that (most resins have a capacity around 1 eq per litre resin).
    Last edited by Lyrebird; 1 Week Ago at 10:29 AM.

  11. #11
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    2,797
    From the Brita website

    "Filtration
    MAXTRA+ MicroFlow Technology reduces:

    limescale build-up
    metals such as lead and copper
    chlorine and other substances that affect water’s taste"
    Last edited by Javaphile; 1 Week Ago at 10:52 AM. Reason: Commercial link removed

  12. #12
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    1
    Hey
    I’ve got a similar machine at home

    I reckon just get a bench top water filter like this
    Commercial link removed as per Site Posting Policy

    It’s good coz you can use it for your drinking water as well as for your machine
    Last edited by Javaphile; 1 Week Ago at 10:50 AM. Reason: Commercial link removed
    Dimal likes this.

  13. #13
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    16,978
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyrebird View Post
    They have very little effect on TDS but they do soften the water, by substituting monovalent (sodium) cations for divalent (calcium and magnesium) ones. This is quite effective at reducing scale formation.

    Unfortunately this means it is very hard to measure when the resin is exhausted: the easiest and cheapest way is complexometric titration against EDTA using Eriochrome black as indicator. The test is easier than it sounds.
    That's easy for you to say Lb...

    Mal.
    robusto and level3ninja like this.

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    50
    One pool shop says l have 90pps calcium hardness.

    Going to try one other shop

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    248
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam76 View Post
    One pool shop says l have 90pps calcium hardness.

    Going to try one other shop
    And then you add Mg++ and some random TDS. Make me suspect that you might be best to use bottled. The jug will be useless I'm afraid.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    574
    @Adam76, if your pool shop test is cheap enough you could ask them to do the hardness test on samples of your water pre and post filtration. That would give you some actual data on which to base your decision.
    Last edited by Lyrebird; 1 Week Ago at 01:52 PM.

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    50
    Thanks, so I'm looking to see what sort of filtration system would be best for my set up and what other people are using?
    Cheers

  18. #18
    Senior Member flashpixx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Perth Western Australia
    Posts
    152
    I went through this exercise when I found the local water in Perth was going to destroy the stainless steel boiler in my ECM Mechanika V Slim.

    Our water is extremely high in Chlorides which the normal goto inline filter the Brita C150 Finest does not remove.

    My solution is to use Pureau water which I buy in 10 litre goon bags for around $8. from Coles, Woolworths etc...

    To that I add the mixture as described in here

    Looks and sounds a bit complex but its not. All you need is a set of digi scales and I use a 5ml syringe, some Epsom Salts and Sodium BiCarbonate both of which are available from your supermarket shelves.

    I mix up 2 litres at a time. I've also experimented with taste while getting a desired pH and TDS, and have reduced the individual component amounts into the Pureau to 4.2 ml per litre rather than 5ml. This gives me a slightly alkaline water and lower TDS than using 5ml. The taste is somehow cleaner and a little sweeter to my mouth anyway.

    Analysis:

    Ph 7.4
    TDS between 70 and 80
    Chlorine nil

    I also bought a TDS meter and an electronic pH meter. But these are optional, I'm just a bit anal.

    The other solution is to buy a Reverse Osmosis unit for about $250, to which you would still need to add the recipe as above.

    I opted not to go this path as RO has a high waste level (1 litre of waste water to 1.25 litres of pure water), and the waste water from the RO is full of the nasties in the water in a concentrated form.
    Dimal and level3ninja like this.

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    50
    Quote Originally Posted by flashpixx View Post
    I went through this exercise when I found the local water in Perth was going to destroy the stainless steel boiler in my ECM Mechanika V Slim.

    Our water is extremely high in Chlorides which the normal goto inline filter the Brita C150 Finest does not remove.

    My solution is to use Pureau water which I buy in 10 litre goon bags for around $8. from Coles, Woolworths etc...

    To that I add the mixture as described in here

    Looks and sounds a bit complex but its not. All you need is a set of digi scales and I use a 5ml syringe, some Epsom Salts and Sodium BiCarbonate both of which are available from your supermarket shelves.

    I mix up 2 litres at a time. I've also experimented with taste while getting a desired pH and TDS, and have reduced the individual component amounts into the Pureau to 4.2 ml per litre rather than 5ml. This gives me a slightly alkaline water and lower TDS than using 5ml. The taste is somehow cleaner and a little sweeter to my mouth anyway.

    Analysis:

    Ph 7.4
    TDS between 70 and 80
    Chlorine nil

    I also bought a TDS meter and an electronic pH meter. But these are optional, I'm just a bit anal.

    The other solution is to buy a Reverse Osmosis unit for about $250, to which you would still need to add the recipe as above.

    I opted not to go this path as RO has a high waste level (1 litre of waste water to 1.25 litres of pure water), and the waste water from the RO is full of the nasties in the water in a concentrated form.
    Wow, sounds like you have the home recipe nailed. Nice machine by the way.

    I was hoping for the lazy way where the filter does it for me!
    flashpixx likes this.

  20. #20
    Senior Member flashpixx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Perth Western Australia
    Posts
    152
    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    From the Brita website

    "Filtration
    MAXTRA+ MicroFlow Technology reduces:

    limescale build-up
    metals such as lead and copper
    chlorine and other substances that affect water’s taste"
    My advice from Bombora and Brita is that these do not work for espresso machines. These are designed for drinking water only. Once the water is introduced to a boiler the whole ball game changes

  21. #21
    Senior Member flashpixx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Perth Western Australia
    Posts
    152
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam76 View Post
    Wow, sounds like you have the home recipe nailed. Nice machine by the way.

    I was hoping for the lazy way where the filter does it for me!
    Get your water professionally tested and go from there. If Bombora are convenient use them, They have a free water testing service and are very thorough

  22. #22
    Senior Member WhatEverBeansNecessary's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    491
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam76 View Post
    Thanks, I'll get the water tested asap.

    What bench top system do you have?
    Cheers
    I have the
    Benchtop Filter System, inc CFS117R Softening Filter 5 Mic - I had the water tested (don't remember the specs at the moment) but I passed them onto Bombora and they recommended the filter.


  23. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    64
    Water hardness and limescale build-up is a favourite topic here - we supposedly have soft water but I still see plenty of limescale around our taps. I didn't want a plumbed in water-supply and there are no lines near my machine, so it would have been expensive anyway.

    I opted for this highly technical mix of mixed-bed resin, recycled Sunbeam softener cartridges, an old yogurt container and food grade plastic tubing: https://coffeesnobs.com.au/general-c...tml#post612949

    Two years on and I replace the resin container each month and in my daughter's Sunbeam less often - I still have the original shipment.

    I bought some Hach test strips with a hardness indicator (you can get them from Bunnings in the pool section - but about $50). Hach do sell water hardness only test strips, but you need to find a stockist because transport kills. Woolies actually sell pool test strips that include hardness indicators... $20 or $15 on special last week! These might not give you a precise read, but it will be close enough. (edit: Just checked - a number of sponsors including JetBlack sell test strips)

    With fresh resin installed, my test strip shows as low as it gets and my TDS meter is 4ppm.

    After two years I just pulled my mushroom apart on the ECM and while there are a few deposits of scale, I thought it was pretty good for my yogurt container filter.



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •