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Thread: new machine

  1. #1
    Kat
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    new machine

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I was talking to my hubby about him buying me a grinder as it sounds like this is what you need to have good coffee. He said that he doesnt mind buying me a machine with it all in one but he wont have another machine separate. So.... hes a bit of a stainless steel freak and Im wondering if you can recommend a good machine with a grinder all in one. I normally make Espresso shots into steamed milk. (Latte) (Currently have a Krups) Usually about 4 cups a day, however, would like to be able to make more easily when we have visitors instead of hiding it away as otherwise you spend all evening making coffee for everyone!!!
    Can you advise me? Price range of $1500-3000

  2. #2
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    Re: new machine

    Kat,

    There arent too many machines with grinders built in - other than superautomatics.... STAY AWAY from them....

    You could get something like a Lelit Combi (around the $800 mark) which has a built in Lux grinder and the case is stainless steel..... they are a single boiler machine (have to wait for the boiler to heat up to texture milk).... however they are pretty reasonable machines....

    The main problem with combined machine/grinders is that heat is the enemy of beans.... causing them to go stale rapidly..... and inside a machine it is - HOT!!!

    Are you sure you cant twist his arm re seperate units?????? ;)

  3. #3
    Kat
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    Re: new machine

    I dont know that much about grinding or anything but is it possible to keep the beans separate and just put in the required amount per cups of coffee you are doing at the time?

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    Re: new machine

    Quote Originally Posted by Kat link=1214279862/0#2 date=1214281750
    I dont know that much about grinding or anything but is it possible to keep the beans separate and just put in the required amount per cups of coffee you are doing at the time?
    Kat,

    That is what I do with my large commercial grinder.....

    It doesnt work equally well with all grinders unfortunately as some make the beans bounce about and produce a slightly less consistent grind unless there are quite a few in the hopper.... but it is one way to eliminate the heat problem with Combi units and many of us do it with our stand alone grinders as well..... to ensure the beans are as fresh as possible.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: new machine

    Kat sounds like you need an automatic
    good idea with adding beans as required

    Check Gilkatho
    In your price range
    Jura machines this link is to the Jura ENA colours available to suit kitchen (but not s/steel)

    http://www.gilkatho.com.au/shop/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=246

    KK

  6. #6
    Kat
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    Re: new machine

    Okay, just did a big research on the Lelit Combi and it seems its all pretty positive! Sooooo just another quick question, in looking on your site someone said that you need a better tamper with it. Do you know why? Also, what one and also is there anything else I should purchase at the same time?

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    TC
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    Re: new machine

    Quote Originally Posted by Kat link=1214279862/0#5 date=1214285040
    Okay, just did a big research on the Lelit Combi and it seems its all pretty positive! Sooooo just another quick question, in looking on your site someone said that you need a better tamper with it. *Do you know why? Also, what one and also is there anything else I should purchase at the same time? *
    Stay tuned....A client of mine is popping a 2nd hand Mokita (same same) up for sale soon.... ;)

  8. #8
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: new machine

    Also try this link from talk coffee
    I would recomend that you call Chris and have a chat he wont bite

    Expobar Office Volumetric
    S/Steel auto machine

    http://www.talkcoffee.com.au/equipment/coffee-machine-expobar-volumetric.php

    KK

  9. #9
    Kat
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    Re: new machine

    Okay KK, but JavaB says steer away from an automatic???? Looks pretty flash and VERY automatic, even cleans itself! Think the Combi sounds better? Are you saying this automatic one is okay for some reason? Yikes, this is all sounding too confusing, maybe I should stick with my Krups and put up with not so great coffee. Getting confused here.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: new machine

    Quote Originally Posted by Kat link=1214279862/0#8 date=1214285476
    Okay KK, but JavaB says steer away from an automatic???? Looks pretty flash and VERY automatic, even cleans itself! Think the Combi sounds better? Are you saying this automatic one is okay for some reason? *Yikes, this is all sounding too confusing, maybe I should stick with my Krups and put up with not so great coffee. Getting confused here.

    Give Chris from talk coffee a call or PM him with your details and he will call you back
    If confuzed he is the person to consult
    KK

  11. #11
    Kat
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    Re: new machine

    mmmm, I can get swayed very easily when someone talks to me in person, I am easily pressured and hate that feeling, so Id prefer to have this chat, its easier and I can research for myself aswell without feeling like I have to buy now! Just me, maybe thats weird but........... anyhow, another question is are there any site sponsors in south australia? Just thinking buy local, its easier for warranty.
    Thanks

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    Re: new machine

    Quote Originally Posted by Kat link=1214279862/0#8 date=1214285476
    Okay KK, but JavaB says steer away from an automatic???? Looks pretty flash and VERY automatic, even cleans itself! Think the Combi sounds better? Are you saying this automatic one is okay for some reason? Yikes, this is all sounding too confusing, maybe I should stick with my Krups and put up with not so great coffee. Getting confused here.
    Firstly, welcome, and dont worry, its not as confusing as it sounds.

    Secondly, do not put up with "not so great coffee".

    Thirdly, JavaB was referring to SUPER Automatics. That is, press a button and it all happens. The Expobar KK is referring to about is and Automatic machine as far as having a volumetric dose. There is no grinder built in. So a button for single shots, button for doubles, etc.

    It sounds like your best bet (to keep everyone happy in the fam) is the Lelit combo, or equivalent (Mokita etc).

    Hope that solves some confusion.

    YeeZa

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    Re: new machine

    Kat,

    Yep, YeeZa is spot on!

    I was referring to the totally auto machines (Super automatic)..... they do the grinding, tamping extraction.... the lot for you!! But they dont (in general) do it very well..... they tend to be unreliable and need lots of expensive maintenance.... so not a good purchase. If you get a Jura super auto - they are good - but very expensive!!!

    The machine Koffee Kosmo linked to is an automatic (not a super auto) and they are a great machine..... but they dont have a built in grinder..... so unless you can change hubbies mind......

  14. #14
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: new machine

    Kat,
    You havent mentioned what machine you have currently.
    In most cases, more automatic means more problems.
    Honestly, I think your best bet is separate machines--stainless should be available, or maybe you can trade your husband?
    In SA, Mark Barun of the The Coffee Barun (see panel on the left of the screen) would be happy to talk coffee.
    I have not found Chris from Talk Coffee to be a pressure seller.
    Good luck,
    Greg


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    Re: new machine

    hey Kat.
    I would agree with what everyones suggested so far.

    you mention that you want to be able to make drinks for guests and not be in the kitchen forever.

    your price range will let you grab a nice heat exchanger machine (~$2000) which allows you to make espresso and steam milk at the same time. you can then spend ~$700 for a great grinder which will last you 27.6 years.

    the Lelit combi type of machine is a nice little machine, but becomes difficult to make coffees for guests easily, because you cant make espresso and steam milk simultaneously.

    i would personally stay away from superautomatics. they are expensive to buy, to maintain, to repair, and dont produce the greatest final product.

    but they are the way forward if you dont want to invest ANY time at all and make average coffee.

    i reckon if uve found this forum, then youd be fairly easily convinced into taking a home espresso course (like what chris at Talk coffee runs) and be making great shots at home.

    from the little experience i have with Chris, I can say confidently, that he aint gonna pressure you at all. i dont think hes in this just for the money. really.

    keep us posted!

    aaron


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    Re: new machine

    Kat

    I have had a LeLit combi for almost a year and am very happy with it. I only put into the grinder the amount of beans needed for immediate use. The inbuilt grinder grinds OK and leaves no residue. The coffee shot produced is great, but like all machines, the operator dictates the final results. Steaming milk is excellent, producing great microfoam. The machine looks good, is clean to operate, easy to clean and takes up minimal bench space. On the occasions that we have had visitors the LeLit has performed OK for a single boiler machine.

    I would recommend the LeLit if you are not making a lot of coffees at the same time and your budget is limited.

    Cheers

  17. #17
    Senior Member GregJW's Avatar
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    Re: new machine

    Hey Kat,

    I second SunnyCoasters comments. The LeLits a good value for money machine. Conical grinder does a good job, good basics with the brass single boiler (similar to Silvia). Good looking stainless steel unit and convenient all in one footprint. Its not a "Pointy End" machine (in price or build quality) but Ive been very happy with it at its price.

    Just get nice, fresh beans ;), learn the ropes (by hanging around here on Coffee Snobs and practice) and get a good tamper. The plastic one on the machine (as on most machines) is too small and near useless. You will need to get a 57mm hand held one. (Also a milk jug or 2, knock box, backflush detergent and descaler, rubber back flush disc, maybe a milk thermometer, shot glass, tamp map, timer, scales, heat gun, breadmaker,... hang on Greg, one thing at a time.)

    Research as much as you can on this and other sites, and enjoy the ride. Let us know how you go.

  18. #18
    Kat
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    Re: new machine

    Thanks everyone, youve all been fantastic, nice to hear what everyone thinks. At this stage Im leaning heavily towards the Lelit Combi. Then I want to learn about how to roast beans in a popcorn maker!!!
    Kat
    PS Funny you should mention the bread machine. Its my birthday this week, thats why Im looking into this as it began with me wanting a grinder - hubby thought hed like me to have a bread machine!!!! Problem is, having started researching stuff on this site due to a problem earlier with my Krups, Im getting more and more interested in making coffee and beginning from scratch which is why I began looking at grinders. :D I think this site is a bit addictive, maybe its the coffee!

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    Re: new machine

    The Lelit sounds like a good machine, but it depends how often you are likely to be making coffees for 4 or more people.

    I have a Saeco Via Venezia, & it is a real chore making coffees for this many people, it is just too time consuming. It is nice making coffees for guests, and the feedback makes you feel pretty good, but it becomes pretty tiresome taking so long on a single boiler machine.

    If you can afford one, Id think very seriously about avoiding the upgrade path & going straight to a HX type machine. This type of machine enabless you to steam immediately without a wait, & would enable you to churn out a number of coffees in a much shorter space of time.

    This is why a Nuova Simonelli Oscar is currently appealling to me, still relatively affordable compared to some of the other HX type machines, but supposed to be the goods under the bonnet.


    Good luck with your choices............cheers............Sean

  20. #20
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: new machine

    Yes Scooter you are very right about the upgrade path
    I remember my first post was about a Silvia and any mods
    The answers I received made me then consider a VBM leveta (better machine at the same cost as a PID Silvia)
    I ended up getting a Bezzera Galatea for the reasons you stated above we make lots of coffees at one sitting so it made sense to get a HX machine and have not regretted my purchase
    KK

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    Re: new machine

    hey kat
    me again - ppl have said that the lelit combi is a great machine - and it is- for the price.
    but for entertaining, its really going to be a long chore.
    if you have 1500-3000 then i would seriously consider heat exchanger machines to make life a lot easier and paired with a nice grinder youll never look back.


  22. #22
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: new machine

    Agreed.

    It is good for the money....but...you have more money.

    If you have a budget of $3000 you can do better than the Lelit.

  23. #23
    Kat
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    Re: new machine

    Okay, okay, I know Im fussy and Im finding this all rather hard, but.... I have just looked at the Jura that KoffeeKosmo suggested, it DOES have a grinder, any other opinions on this one? I have to make a decision in the next few days. I HAVE to have one with a grinder with it.
    Kat

  24. #24
    Senior Member GregJW's Avatar
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    Re: new machine

    Yeah, I gotta concur with TG. IF I had $3000 to spend on coffee making gear (big if) Id forget about the combi idea. Id get a good quality grinder as first priority, after trying some out (eg. Mazzer, Macap, Compak) - say, about $700. Then try out as many HX machines as I could (eg Giotto, VBM, Bezzera, Diadema, etc) and try and get one for about $2200 (stock-take time at present - deals can be made, especially if youre getting a package!). And with the extra $100 get a Pullman tamper.

    Anyway, thats what Id do. Whatever you do but, Kat, make sure you use good, FRESH beans and learn as much about how to use your gear properly as you can, so you get the most out of your investment and the most enjoyment from it.

    Greg

  25. #25
    Senior Member GregJW's Avatar
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    Re: new machine

    Sorry Kat, you jumped in there with that Jura idea while I was typing my last post.

    Juras are superautomatic machines which basically do everything for you. Not very popular around these parts as they generally (from my limited experience and what others have said) make mediocre coffee and require lots of maintenance over a relatively limited lifespan.

    Nevertheless, Juras are said to have the best reputation in this class and you should be able to find one in your budget.

    If you go this road, my previous last paragraph still applies.

    Greg

  26. #26
    Kat
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    Re: new machine

    Actually, I just read all the info. on it and Im not impressed, it looks tooooo automatic, doesnt look like you actually make the coffee or need any skill, looks like it just does it all itself, not really what Im interested in. Im interested in making coffee, the real way, and want to learn how to roast, how to grind and all the rest. Thinking again Im wondering if I should talk hubby into letting me just get a grinder which is what I wanted in the first place and just get that bit right before going for a better machine. Its just that its another thing in the kitchen and he likes a clean clear bench with nothing on it. :D

  27. #27
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: new machine

    Kat
    Just an idea for the benchtop
    Have a sliding base made, to slide into a cupboard,
    The equipment sits on this to allow access and storage

    That will satisfy the hubby and you get the best equipment you can afford

    If you want to show off the machine you could leave the cupboard doors open or have them made in glass

    KK :)

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    Re: new machine

    Kat,

    Many CS members would die if they had access to the budget you have!

    You can afford really top shelf machines which will make you great espresso given a little effort on your part. The only problem you have to overcome is having them in one box..... Would you build an oven into a fridge? No because they have separate and clear functions.... which dont really "get on together"..... even though they are both used to prepare food.

    Great coffee machines dont have grinders built in.... neither do great grinders come installed in coffee machines.... they end up being two separate units - in close proximity to each other.....

    Maybe something like KK suggested above is worth a thought...... after all Ill bet hubby doesnt store his lawnmower in the boot of the car (together with his golf clubs maybe ;) ;D ;D)!

  29. #29
    TC
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    Re: new machine

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaB link=1214279862/20#27 date=1214485149
    Kat,

    Many CS members would die if they had access to the budget you have!

    You can afford really top shelf machines which will make you great espresso given a little effort on your part. The only problem you have to overcome is having them in one box..... Would you build an oven into a fridge? No because they have separate and clear functions.... which dont really "get on together"..... even though they are both used to prepare food.

    Great coffee machines dont have grinders built in.... neither do great grinders come installed in coffee machines.... they end up being two separate units - in close proximity to each other.....

    Maybe something like KK suggested above is worth a thought...... after all Ill bet hubby doesnt store his lawnmower in the boot of the car (together with his golf clubs maybe ;) ;D ;D)!
    Like all of the others, I would aslo recommend that you do it properly if you want great coffee and purchase a separate machine and a good (maybe small) grinder? This should hopefully keep SO happy. Please feel most welcome to call if youd like to discuss some pros and cons and get some more information.

    regards

    Chris

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    Re: new machine

    Kat, Im a brand new snob and a total newbie to home espresso. I too am going through the motions of buying a home espresso setup with the same budget as you. I know your pain. :)

    The advice being given with regard to "you should reconsider the combo idea" is worth listening too. Im certainly no expert but I have had the opportunity to see and taste the difference between these combo machines, autos and the like and frankly I just wouldnt even consider spending upto $3K on any of them. The difference in quality of beverage produced when compared to a good grinder matched with a good HX machine is chalk and cheese.

    Perhaps approach hubby with this scenario: All experience and knowledge suggests that the grind is critical to good espresso. What do we do if our machine does a decent job but we discover its the damn inbuilt grinder that is letting us down? Worse, your research is showing that the combos involve certain compromises - but for the same money you can buy a no compromise machine and pair it with a no compromise grinder.

    Or theres always the "just put your foot down because your the wife" option. As a husband I can testify that that approach has an irritatingly high success rate! ;D

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    Re: new machine

    Hi Kat,
    I just cant get my head around a bloke not wanting more gadgets, and being worried about a clear bench space....you poor thing !!!
    I offer no solutions but to try and explain to hubby how much it would mean to you if he could give up a tiny bit of his beloved bench to accomodate equipment that will serve you both well for many years, instead of compromising on a machine that will more than likely end up sitting on the bench being under-utilised.
    Maybe if you have enough room in your dining room, you could set up a small table/bench to have your coffee *stuff, separate from the kitchen bench ??? Be creative and look for solutions...dont compromise !!!
    In SA, Mark at The Coffee Barun would be good to talk to if you wanted someone local.
    Good luck!
    Cheers,
    buff

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    Re: new machine

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecker link=1214279862/20#29 date=1214522225
    Or theres always the "just put your foot down because your the wife" option. *As a husband I can testify that that approach has an irritatingly high success rate! * ;D
    ;D ;D ;D

  33. #33
    Kat
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    Re: new machine

    Thanks for the advice everyone, actually when I put the price range down I simply did so because that was the range that said you could get stainless steel and hubby wanted stainless steel, he said to find out info. and his two pre-requisites were stainless and all in one.
    I wont be putting the foot down, I am just thrilled that hes even saying yes. You see, I first got the Krups in my home by noticing it for free in the flybuys with enough points, I got that one through the use of its something for nothing so why not choose something Id never be allowed to buy! ;) it worked wonders and I got it here. After him being a total espresso is awful kind of person he now quite enjoys me making one! I am on cloud 9 that he wants to get me something for my birthday that is not a rainwater tank or something we need so Im happy to go on the few restrictions he has given me. I think the Lelit is more convincing on the price range too and Im just so pleased that he wants to spoil me.
    Thinking seriously of going the Lelit Combi, hubby stayed up till all hours last night to look into it more with me, the only concern, being a technician himself is that it looks like Coffee Connoisseurs are the only company in the whole of Australia who know anything about this machine and he is a one man band so what happens then if things so wrong. He also is at a loss as to why its so important to have such an expensive tamper and wonders what other options there are.
    We arent big spenders as a rule, this is quite the exception and only because he wants to spoil me!

  34. #34
    Senior Member GregJW's Avatar
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    Re: new machine

    Hey again Kat,

    The LeLit retailer has a good rep., when I got mine it had been bench tested and ready to go, Ive had no problems and you dont hear any bad stories at all about these machines, and it comes with a 12 month back to base warranty.

    Just read the instructions properly before use (especially the bit about priming before use and re-priming the boiler after steaming) and keep the box it comes in.

    Greg

    PS. A good tamper is a must. We googled and picked one up for about $50 (timber handle on 57mm stainless steel base) but Id also consider paying extra for a Pullman.

  35. #35
    TC
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    Re: new machine

    Quote Originally Posted by Kat link=1214279862/20#32 date=1214531524
    Thanks for the advice everyone, actually when I put the price range down I simply did so because that was the range that said you could get stainless steel and hubby wanted stainless steel, he said to find out info. and his two pre-requisites were stainless and all in one.
    I wont be putting the foot down, I am just thrilled that hes even saying yes. *You see, I first got the Krups in my home by noticing it for free in the flybuys with enough points, I got that one through the use of its something for nothing so why not choose something Id never be allowed to buy! ;) it worked wonders and I got it here. *After him being a total espresso is awful kind of person he now quite enjoys me making one! I am on cloud 9 that he wants to get me something for my birthday that is not a rainwater tank or something we need so Im happy to go on the few restrictions he has given me. *I think the Lelit is more convincing on the price range too and Im just so pleased that he wants to spoil me.
    Thinking seriously of going the Lelit Combi, hubby stayed up till all hours last night to look into it more with me, the only concern, being a technician himself is that it looks like there is only one company in the whole of Australia who know anything about this machine and he is a one man band so what happens then if things so wrong. *He also is at a loss as to why its so important to have such an expensive tamper and wonders what other options there are. *
    We arent big spenders as a rule, this is quite the exception and only because he wants to spoil me!

  36. #36
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    Re: new machine

    :) I know where youre coming from. When I first ventured into these murky waters my wifes initial reaction to the likely cost of a grinder cant be printed in a public forum! :o I had to physically ready myself when I approached the actual machine cost with her! It was a matter of yelling it from as far away as possible and then running.


  37. #37
    Senior Member redzone121's Avatar
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    Re: new machine

    I know where youre coming from. When I first ventured into these murky waters my wifes initial reaction to the likely cost of a grinder cant be printed in a public forum! I had to physically ready myself when I approached the actual machine cost with her! It was a matter of yelling it from as far away as possible and then running.

    Nice "Wrecker" *;D

    Kat, if you are anything remotely like any of us, go for what set up will make the best coffee or else you will end up with an auto machine for sale a month or 2 down the track *;)
    CB

  38. #38
    Kat
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    Re: new machine

    Ive ordered the Lelit Combi and am looking forward eagerly to its arrival! Thanks everyone for your input. Much appreciated!
    Kat



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