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Thread: PNG Wahgi AA

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    PNG Wahgi AA

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I have found this coffee (purchased from our host) to have an excellent length of flavour and this morning, made the finest coffee I have ever tasted as a double macchiato :)

    However, my attempts at making espressos with this bean have led to good flavour, balance and length, but a fairly thin body. I am curious to hear how others find this coffee and how they enjoy it best?

    Personally I think that the steamed milk adds the creamy texture and body it seems to need, though that may come down to my lack of barista abilities...

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    I found the opposite.

    Although I screwed up the roast! :(
    Went to fast into first crack which led to second crack coming only four and a half minutes later.

    Big body, not much nuance. I like it as an esspresso/restretto.

  3. #3
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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    I prefer beans from this region roasted quicker into First Crack(FC) than usual (for me). Usually aim to get Rolling FC happening at 10:30 to 11:00 minutes, reduce the heat a smidge to about a gradient of 2.5-3.0C/minute and pull before the first snaps of Second Crack(SC) about 5-6 minutes later. For me, this produces a nice lively brew, medium body, lots of fruit, some earthiness and a clean lingering finish of bitter-sweet chocolate.

    If you like a bit more body but want to retain the complexity of other flavours, roast half as per above and then the other half so that after RFC has started, reduce the heat a little less so that the gradient is more like 3.0-3.5C/minute and allow it to enter SC about 5-6 minutes later but stop the roast before Rolling SC starts and immediately cool. When both batches are cool, combine them thoroughly and store in a 1-Way Valve bag in the usual manner. This is only intended to be a guide so dont be scared to try any variation on this theme that appeals to you.

    Give em about 4-5 days minimum rest time and then give em a go as an espresso or ristretto(my favourite). Also works really well in milk so is a great all around bean suited for a wide range of taste preferences. All the best and have fun.... ;D

    Mal.

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    I should point out that I am not home roasting, leaving that to the experts ;)

    Sounds like it could be my technique leading to the thin body rather than the specific beans...

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Quote Originally Posted by 74595D515C300 link=1237180436/2#2 date=1237188402
    I prefer beans from this region roasted quicker into First Crack(FC) than usual (for me). Usually aim to get Rolling FC happening at 10:30 to 11:00 minutes, reduce the heat a smidge to about a gradient of 2.5-3.0C/minute and pull before the first snaps of Second Crack(SC) about 5-6 minutes later. For me, this produces a nice lively brew, medium body, lots of fruit, some earthiness and a clean lingering finish of bitter-sweet chocolate.
    Got home last night and told the misses I was about to do a roast. She jumped up and down, with the words "WAHGI, WAHGI, WAHGI!!!!" coming out of her mouth.

    Roasted it exactly like Mal did above. Cant wait to try. Guess Ill have a good weekend of coffee.

    The only strange thing about this bean is how easily it gets to second crack. 95% of beans I have roasted hit SC at 225C. The others at 224C. Wahgi hits it at 223C. Mmmmm... have to remember that next time.

  6. #6
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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Dont forget to let us know what you think of it "bass" ;)

    Mal.

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Like Mal, Ive been pulling mine before SC. Very nice bean this one.

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Quote Originally Posted by 0F22262A274B0 link=1237180436/5#5 date=1237271548
    Dont forget to let us know what you think of it "bass" ;)

    Mal.
    Excellent!

    Tasting notes for today;

    21/03: Toasty marshmallow smell.
    Mid body.
    Mid to front tongue.
    Little to no acid.
    Chocolaty port taste. Long lingering taste with acid progressing.

    Attached roast chart for those interested.


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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    having probs opening that file with winzip any sugestions thanks

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Quote Originally Posted by 31353F376D68363D345C0 link=1237180436/8#8 date=1237595901
    having probs opening that file with winzip any sugestions thanks
    Worked fine, the only problem was that the second sheet with the pack of sample beans did not come down..... ;D

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Very good info Bassway. How do you get your graph to be so straight? Mine is curved starting a bit steeper at the start of the roast and tapering off slowly towards the end which works ok for me as ideally Im aiming for a slow rise between FC and SC.

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Quote Originally Posted by 1C3725063D172122203721213D520 link=1237180436/10#10 date=1237683419
    Very good info Bassway. How do you get your graph to be so straight? Mine is curved starting a bit steeper at the start of the roast and tapering off slowly towards the end which works ok for me as ideally Im aiming for a slow rise between FC and SC.
    My Corretto is closer to a drum roaster then most Correttos. I use a lid to keep the heat in and have insulated the sidewalls.

    I also use the BM element. This heats at about 8-10C per minute until 130C then about 6C per minute afterwards.

    I preheat the Corretto, usually to about 100C-120C.
    All the way to FC the element is on. The HG is then used to keep the heat up as close to the "ideal". I watch the bean temp, switch the HG on and off at the start of the roast (at the low setting). Then leave it on and use the chaff vent on the lid to regulate a bit (usually 120-160C). Then from 160C to 205C I switch the HG between low and high settings to keep to ideal.

    Once I hit FC the PID is used to regulate the temp. The HG is then always on low.

    The other style of roast I have started to play with is an "S" style. For this I preheat as per usual. I dont use the HG at all till about the 125C - 130C mark (about 7 mins). The HG is switch on low for 1 minute then high till 205C. The heat ramp at that stage is 30C per minute!
    I then cut the roast short of SC.
    I use this for lighter roasts. Seems to roast the bean more evenly. Even though the steep ramp the bean shows no tipping. Shows that too much heat at the start of the roast causes tipping.
    Worked well for a PNG Kimel, gave a different flavour for an Aussie Chesterfield Park but was terrible for a Costa Rica Terrazu. Roasted a Yirga like it on the 19th. Wait and see!

    The setup is very flexible but on the downside you need to watch it and fiddle all the time. Also past SC sometimes the roast can get smoky due low airflow. I usually pull the roast no later then 30 sec past SC so I havent bothered to fix this yet.

    ;DLooks like this post may get moved again! ;D

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    I just roasted up a batch of the wahagi this evening. I used Mals method as a rough quide for a fuller body - not sure if I quite got it:

    The first 150 grams was quite dark (CS 9.5) and well into second crack. The second batch took a little longer- I dropped the heat after first crack- and I cut it 6 minutes later around CS 8.5 just at the fist signs of 2nd crack. I have blended it and sealed it up for sampling in a few days.

    looks very nice... evenly roasted- and smelt good roasting- there was only a little chaff in the collector at the end.

    will report the results. Will be used for espresso.

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    I tried roasting a little shorter.
    FC 211C @ 09:45
    Pulled the roast at 15:30 221C. About a minute, two degrees before SC.

    The smell changed to a soft marshmallow with Jasmine flower. Bit like Yirga but not with the disgustingly overpowering perfume smell.

    Body and acid were about the same.

    Still a little chocolate in the taste but almost gone. The port taste changed to a soft tart berry wine taste. Bit like a light red.

    Still as good as ever.
    Becoming my favourite bean. Wish I had ordered more!

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    It is my favourite bean...and i ordered plenty! *good to see others agree.

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Time to come clean: I dont like Wahgi.

    There, Ive said it! Feel so much better now... :P

    It was early in our roasting days so we may have roasted it far-from-optimally... though Id have thought wed have lucked upon a reasonable profile in the 5 roasts we tried of it! Took it anywhere past SC and it went ashy in a hurry. Much before SC and it was beyond bright and verging on grassy/sour. Seemed to lack sweetness. Could also have been our espresso methods, I guess? More than likely, however, its just not a bean we like. Kimel, on the other hand... :D

    Sorry to interrupt the thread with something so self-indulgent! Just thought Id throw another opinion in. Happy that other adore this bean!
    Cheers,
    Stuart.

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Quote Originally Posted by 7275746073756673606F75010 link=1237180436/15#15 date=1238041739
    Time to come clean: I dont like Wahgi.

    There, Ive said it! Feel so much better now... :P

    It was early in our roasting days so we may have roasted it far-from-optimally... though Id have thought wed have lucked upon a reasonable profile in the 5 roasts we tried of it! Took it anywhere past SC and it went ashy in a hurry. Much before SC and it was beyond bright and verging on grassy/sour. Seemed to lack sweetness. Could also have been our espresso methods, I guess? More than likely, however, its just not a bean we like. Kimel, on the other hand... *:D

    Sorry to interrupt the thread with something so self-indulgent! Just thought Id throw another opinion in. Happy that other adore this bean!
    Cheers,
    Stuart.
    No problem here!

    One of the reasons to home roast is that you get to roast how and what you want.

    Yirgacheffe is one those beans. People love it. I hate it.
    One roast I did of it had a taste like cordial rosewater. Far too much flower taste and smell.
    The smell of soapy Jasmine actually makes me physically sick. Like walking through the ground floor of Myers.

    I did another roast that was low temp to start, then fast ramp to FC, stop a couple degrees short of SC. The Jasmine taste had died back, more of a white grape taste. The [s]smell[/s] stench was still there. Had to hold the group handle at arms length when making one for my misses this morning so I didnt puke.... seriously!
    I can see why people like it. I didnt think that you could get such a taste/smell from a bean. It is amazing, it just doesnt agree with me.

  18. #18
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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Good one Stuart.... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

    Good thing were all different ;)

    Mal.

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Quote Originally Posted by 52514343475149300 link=1237180436/11#11 date=1237707566
    Quote Originally Posted by 1C3725063D172122203721213D520 link=1237180436/10#10 date=1237683419
    Very good info Bassway. How do you get your graph to be so straight? Mine is curved starting a bit steeper at the start of the roast and tapering off slowly towards the end which works ok for me as ideally Im aiming for a slow rise between FC and SC.
    My Corretto is closer to a drum roaster then most Correttos. I use a lid to keep the heat in and have insulated the sidewalls.

    I also use the BM element. This heats at about 8-10C per minute until 130C then about 6C per minute afterwards.

    I preheat the Corretto, usually to about 100C-120C.
    All the way to FC the element is on. The HG is then used to keep the heat up as close to the "ideal". I watch the bean temp, switch the HG on and off at the start of the roast (at the low setting). Then leave it on and use the chaff vent on the lid to regulate a bit (usually 120-160C). Then from 160C to 205C I switch the HG between low and high settings to keep to ideal.

    Once I hit FC the PID is used to regulate the temp. The HG is then always on low.

    The other style of roast I have started to play with is an "S" style. For this I preheat as per usual. I dont use the HG at all till about the 125C - 130C mark (about 7 mins). The HG is switch on low for 1 minute then high till 205C. The heat ramp at that stage is 30C per minute!
    I then cut the roast short of SC.
    I use this for lighter roasts. Seems to roast the bean more evenly. Even though the steep ramp the bean shows no tipping. Shows that too much heat at the start of the roast causes tipping.
    Worked well for a PNG Kimel, gave a different flavour for an Aussie Chesterfield Park but was terrible for a Costa Rica Terrazu. Roasted a Yirga like it on the 19th. Wait and see!

    The setup is very flexible but on the downside you need to watch it and fiddle all the time. Also past SC sometimes the roast can get smoky due low airflow. I usually pull the roast no later then 30 sec past SC so I havent bothered to fix this yet.

    ;DLooks like this post may get moved again! ;D
    That is quite a set up :o

    Im roasting some of this up on the weekend hopefully all goes well.

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Quote Originally Posted by 3B382A2A2E3820590 link=1237180436/16#16 date=1238043145
    Yirgacheffe is one those beans. People love it. I hate it.
    Haha, well there you go! Yirg is one of my favourite beans!! I love a good green tea (jasmine or otherwise) too. Yirg isnt an everyday bean - Id probably tire of it - but it would take a while! Especially when you can roast it dark (into RSC) and get all sorts of crazy cumin/clove/coconut/dark choc flavours from it...

    Er, so, back to the Wahgi (cue someone else).
    Cheers
    Stuart

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    With you Stuart. Way too much funk!

  22. #22
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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    What amazes me about this bean is it seems to be great in all forms, for me anyway. S/B or with milk, Aeropress and even syphon. All other beans I have tried I find best in one or two methods but not this one.
    One of the Wifes favs also.

    Oh well fortunately we are all different.

    Enjoy ;)

    CB

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Yes it is a great bean, roasted this the other day for the first time and i dont know if its me but it seems more aromatic than most other beans.
    But definitely makes a great S/B and L/B

    Mal

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Im running out of green Wahgi, I hope theres going to be more for sale soon, Im getting nervous about telling my wife that weve run out.

    Phil :-[

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Roasting wise with a HG & BM, definitely give it an extended FC of 15-16mins.

    Like Mal has alluded, this bean loses it into 2nd crack.

    Pull before SC starts to crackle

    Expect chaff - PNGs expel a lot when roasting

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Roasted some of the waghis last weekend for filter and brewed it through a clever this morning after 6 days of rest.

    Excellent bean this one - easy and pleasant to drink. Smooth medium body and low on acidity the way I like it. Not sure if its me, but I am tasting crisp malty and chocolate taste to it like a yummy breakfast drink!


  27. #27
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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    chocolatly aftertaste. * *To me, its definetely a dry flavoured bean.

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    This is probably my favourite bean, alongside the Puruvian stuff that I recently ordered and did a roast with on Monday. Brilliant both of them.

    I find the PNG Waghi to have a great, full mouth feel with a long mid palatte and a lingering coacoa-like aftertaste which seems to subdue the perceived bitterness. I generally have a double-shot in a 180ml glass, made as a cappucino or latte.

    May be worth noting that Ive experimented with longer pour times for the double basket and found that the Waghi can give a nice, thick body when pushed out to maybe 35-40 seconds... although it does become a balancing act with tamping etc or youll end up with a bitter, over-extracted shot.

    Cheers - boingk

  29. #29
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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Quote Originally Posted by 2B2620272E22490 link=1237180436/27#27 date=1282114721
    This is probably my favourite bean, alongside the Puruvian stuff that I recently ordered and did a roast with on Monday. Brilliant both of them.

    I find the PNG Waghi to have a great, full mouth feel with a long mid palatte and a lingering coacoa-like aftertaste which seems to subdue the perceived bitterness. I generally have a double-shot in a 180ml glass, made as a cappucino or latte.

    May be worth noting that Ive experimented with longer pour times for the double basket and found that the Waghi can give a nice, thick body when pushed out to maybe 35-40 seconds... although it does become a balancing act with tamping etc or youll end up with a bitter, over-extracted shot.

    Cheers - boingk
    From teh moment I started roasting...

    This bean has been one of my all time greats and stated so many times... But with the addition of another... The cup gets better 8-)

    **************
    Shipped- This order was shipped on 14/04/2009

    Tax Invoice # 69

    Name Quantity Total Item Price
    PNG Wahgi AA 2.50kg $27.50

    **********
    This order has been placed and payment has been received. It will be packed and shipped as soon as possible.

    Tax Invoice # 181 (69)


    Name Quantity Total Item Price
    Peru Ceja de Selva Estate 2.50kg $26.25
    PNG Wahgi AA 5.00kg $55.00


    NOTE: An 80/20 blend with the PNG being teh biggest - is a great cup ;D

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Anger Management - no kidding... might have to try that one! Ive certainly got the goods at hand haha. I went for 2.5kg of each, with good old Dad looking for a kilo of the Peruvian stuff into the bargain.

    Might tell him to use up the Waghi and Eth. Gamballa from last time ;D

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Quote Originally Posted by 4D626B697E416D626D6B69616962780C0 link=1237180436/28#28 date=1282119768
    NOTE:An 80/20 blend with the PNG being the biggest - is a great cup
    I go for a 60/40 split with the peru
    or a 70/30 split with the Ache

  32. #32
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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Quote Originally Posted by 416D6E6B6C5D55020 link=1237180436/30#30 date=1282215166
    with the Ache
    The Indian was "sore"... Im guessing you were blending with the Aceh?
    ;D


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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    :D

    um yeah, what he said
    or Indian Ache Nuggets ;D

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    I was talking to somebody yesterday about mysore nuggets and they said it was too much information.

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    moving along from horrible horrible bean puns...

    Does anyone else find this bean to have too much of a fruity taste to it? I forgot i had a 250g bag sitting around so i opened it up (23 days after roast) and gave it a crack and quite frankly i dont enjoy it. I mean, its not bad, but its just too different. As espresso the "fruityness" (thats the only way i can explain it, excuse my amateur palate) is too overpowering. As a latte its enjoyable but too sweet for my taste. I also had this one roasted before it was sent to me.

  36. #36
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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Quote Originally Posted by 655E515A4A4C3F0 link=1237180436/34#34 date=1283489150
    moving along from horrible horrible bean puns...

    Does anyone else find this bean to have too much of a fruity taste to it? I forgot i had a 250g bag sitting around so i opened it up (23 days after roast) and gave it a crack and quite frankly i dont enjoy it. I mean, its not bad, but its just too different. As espresso the "fruityness" (thats the only way i can explain it, excuse my amateur palate) is too overpowering. As a latte its enjoyable but too sweet for my taste. I also had this one roasted before it was sent to me.
    Hi Zaneus, sounds like you have a lighter roasted Wahgi, the longer you go into the roast you less acidity and fruit and more choc/nutty notes--it has quite a wide roasting range which is why it is such a popular bean with CSers :)

  37. #37
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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Quote Originally Posted by 253027272C2F232C420 link=1237180436/35#35 date=1283546966
    the longer you go into the roast you less acidity and fruit and more choc/nutty notes--it has quite a wide roasting range which is why it is such a popular bean with CSers :)
    At the same time though gm, youve got to really pay attention to the progress of the roast batch after you pass the end of Rolling 1st-Crack as it can really accelerate away from you into 2nd-Crack at almost frightening speed.

    With these and other PNG beans, I really make sure that the thermal gradient after the start of RFC doesnt go above 2-3C/Minute because of this tendency to run away. Can make the difference between a great roast outcome and something quite ordinary, Ive found....

    Mal.

  38. #38
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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Good morning all.

    Roasted 200gms of Waghi AA thursday on the FZ-RR baby roaster.

    Kitchen ambient temp...19 deg.

    Moderate to low heat all the way to first crack at 11 minutes, low heat to second crack at 15 minutes. Beans pulled out, visually C9-10. Heavy aromas towards end of roast.

    Seems like an easy bean to gauge.

    Tasting notes after 3 days rest:
    Bouquet: Slight earthy hints and cocoa. Hint of blackcurrant maybe..
    Taste: Smooth and moderately sweet as an espresso with a moderate to slightly rich body due to C10 roast. Stands out well in a flat white too. Buttery mouthfeel. Lingering finish. After 15 minutes of an espresso i could still relish that upper palate remnants...mmmm.

    Overall, i love it. A great product from Beanbay

    Gary

  39. #39
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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Down to my last 70-80 gms of Waghi. 5 days now after the initial roast and i,m getting a bit more complexity from it. Seems to have a more prominent malty flavour now with a bit more fruit ( blackcurrant...cumquat...sorry, my palate is not trained. Been working around wines for donkeys years and i still dont have a sensitive palate which doesnt help by my inability to put into words from impressions in my mind)
    Definitely more smoother today. Will have to roast more today and keep 80 gms for around 10 days and see if it improves.


    Gary


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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    I prefer it from day 5 onward. To me the flavours are far more developed at this point.

    Of all the beans, this is one of my favourites but I still find its flavours hard to describe...

  41. #41
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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    You,re right Smokey, hard bean to describe as there,s nothing there that really that stands out that says bang! licorice...or marshmallows etc. Mind you, i roasted it to C10 so i,m getting more cocoa flavours and the fruit has diminished together with acidity.

    Gary

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    I have loved the PNG Waghi, so was a little devastated to see it has now sold out. oh well, I do still have a kilo or so, and there is always another bean I havent had yet. I am only a relative noobie, so I wont go trying to add to the very useful info and descriptions below. :)

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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Quote Originally Posted by 4F47474B5E5E13132A0 link=1237180436/41#41 date=1286332734
    I have loved the PNG Waghi, so was a little devastated to see it has now sold out
    Ah, the joy of specialty coffee, it isnt made in a factory so once a crop has sold its gone.

    The great news is we have more on the way but the ship wont land till closer to the end of the month. We have plenty coming so you wont missout.

    8-)

  44. #44
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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Quote Originally Posted by 343C3C3025256868510 link=1237180436/41#41 date=1286332734
    I have loved the PNG Waghi, so was a little devastated to see it has now sold out
    *:( Bad news.................[QUOTE=103F3528510 link=1237180436/42#42 date=1286333517]The great news is we have more on the way..............
    Quote Originally Posted by 103F3528510 link=1237180436/42#42 date=1286333517
    We have plenty coming so you wont missout
    :) Very good news.................

    One [but I have many ::)] of my favorites...

  45. #45
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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    The challenge in attempting to describe flavor, notes and characteristics of many PNGs can be due to the way in which PNG coffees cover the full "flavor wheel".

    PNG coffees can be quite unique in this regard and it is why PNG beans are well respected and sought after by commercial roasters for use in their blends.

    The Australian palate was brought up on the taste of PNGs in their espresso coffees (along with the other usual suspects, e.g. Brazil, etc.).

  46. #46
    Senior Member Rocky's Avatar
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    May 2008
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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    I made my first pour with this bean this morning using the Brownbay product. I thought the pour looked a bit thin suggesting to me that perhaps I need to grind it a bit finer as it was tamped fairly hard. The resulting espresso & machiato were thin, short on the palate and slightly acid. I could not detect any trace of sweetness. My son had a Latte and said it was good. I will pour again on Sunday morning and try a finer grind and see what I get.

  47. #47
    Senior Member Rocky's Avatar
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    May 2008
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    Re: PNG Wahgi AA

    Yes, this bean likes a slightly finer grind. Sundays pour was better looking and produced much nicer coffee. It certainly goes well with milk (Piccolo Latte) and made a nice Macchiato - rich and almost sweet. Still a bit short on the palate but a very pleasant shot. Phew, what a relief.



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