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Thread: Peru Grace Estate

  1. #1
    Senior Member GregJW's Avatar
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    Peru Grace Estate

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    What a great little bean.

    Did my first roast of these from last bean bay (in popper).
    Easiest roast Ive ever done by the proverbial country mile.

    Very clear and audible first cracks, a nice gap, then (something Ive been struggling with) very clear and audible second cracks.

    Took it to 30 secs into rolling second @ 230 deg. I recalled getting these as brown beans from Andy and they were a nice dark roast. This mornings roast looks a good one (about CS 10-11) and smells great!

    How long have others been taking this bean into RSC?

    BTW, Ive been trying to attach single photos but keep getting this message:

    NOTICE: If you had an attachment in your post, you will need to reselect the attachment again in the browse box for security reasons.

    I think Im doing it right (although obviously not ;D), photos is a jpg file, 448 x 336 mm, 43.0kb.

    What am I doing wrong? :-/

    Greg

  2. #2
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    You get that message when you hit the Preview button instead of the Post button.

  3. #3
    Senior Member GregJW's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Yeah, youre right, TG. Ill try going straight to post with this photo.

    Hopefully,...



  4. #4
    Senior Member GregJW's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Thank you TG. Im an embarrassment to my children :-[ .

    Photo is this mornings Popper Peru.

    Sorry about the morning sunshine.

  5. #5
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    mmmm... yum! About to roast mine for the first time thismorning in BM.

    Will let you know how I go.

  6. #6
    Senior Member javabeen's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Nice roast, should cup nicely too, dont forget to tell us how you go brewing it.

    Javabeen.

  7. #7
    Senior Member GregJW's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Hi all,

    Bit late getting back on this.

    Let these beans sit about 1 week. Went a bit too oily, still brewed up ok. Nice chocolaty taste although slight burnt hint.

    Ive pulled back a bit from the dark side, going up to 15 sec max into rolling second. Not as dark but not getting oily.

    Ive been getting early blonding but (say, about 10-15 secs) not only on Peru but all my beans. Very frustrating. Its only really started since I switched from buying brown to roasting in the popper. Could this be a popper thing? Or a roasting technique thing? Ive tried up-dosing, down-dosing, etc. I havent changed my extraction technique (I dont think).

    Im now pulling my shots shorter and still getting bitterness. :(

  8. #8
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Gday Greg,

    My experience with the revered PGE is to never roast beyond the CS9-10 region as this brings out the best in my view..... Basically, this equates to about 4:30 minutes past 1st-Crack in my Corretto and well shy of the first snaps of 2nd-Crack. They tend to go ashy very quickly so the best idea is, leave 2nd-Crack for those really tough little Ethiopian and Yemen varieties and play nice with nearly all the rest.... ;)

    Mal.

  9. #9
    Senior Member GregJW's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Thanks Mal,

    I have pulled them back, was blowing holes in the poor little fellas. Doing medium roasts now - more caramelly (?).

    Still getting that early blonding but. Dont know if its me, my machine, the beans (all different varieties) or the way Im roasting them. :P

    Ethiopian eh?

    Yemen eh?

    Hmmm...thanks for the heads-up.

    Greg.


  10. #10
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Greg - what looks like early blonding may not be.

    My Classic produces a crema that looks quite golden during the extraction, but once in the cup it is quite red/brown. Especially if the beans have only rested a few days. The crema does have the red/brown streaks in it too. It may just be your machine.

    I know mine is due for a service and it is going in for one after xmas, when I have some money for it.

  11. #11
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Im getting early blonding as well on just about anything Im brewing up. It must be Ambient Temp changes... not sure... I might drop the brew temp down to 92deg and see what happens.

  12. #12
    Senior Member GregJW's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    You may be right Lucinda, and I am only resting my beans a day or 2 now (damn popper cant keep up with demand). Might get some Espresso Wow from Andy - just for scientific purposes ::) to see if it happens with that.

    And I hadnt thought of ambient temp increase Marc. Good suggestion. It has coincided with the increase in temps around here. I havent PIDd my Lelit unfortunately, might try a bit more surfing.

    Thanks guys.

    Greg

  13. #13
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Time to invest in a coretto as I was havoing much the same issue.

    Am about to go out and do a roast now.

    Not sure what I am going to roast though.

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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    My first successful roast with these beans, roasted to around 8-9.My BM stopped the dough cycle around 23 min.

    Tried some this morning after a 48 hour wait and was a bit dissapointed. Had it as a latte and found that it didnt cut through the milk.

    Anyone else experience this? After drinking Andys WOW, I found this a little wanting.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Quote Originally Posted by expressman link=1193913160/0#13 date=1196663106
    My first successful roast with these beans, roasted to around 8-9.My BM stopped the dough cycle around 23 min.

    Tried some this morning after a 48 hour wait and was a bit dissapointed. Had it as a latte and found that it didnt cut through the milk.

    Anyone else experience this? After drinking Andys WOW, I found this a little wanting.
    Hehe...I imagine after trying Andys award winning coffee anything is going to taste "a little wanting". ::)

    Dont know much about BM roasting though 8-9 after 23 minutes sounds like a long roast at a low temp. At a guess, your beans may not have roasted thoroughly so maybe move that HG a little closer and use a thermocouple to check your temps?

  16. #16
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Agree Dennis,

    You need to aim for 1st-Crack occurring within an 8-10 minute window from the start, back the heat off or move the gun further away once a rapid rolling crack is under way, then aim for a CS9-10 roast in a 13-15 minute window. You dont really want the PGE to enter 2nd-Crack as this will kill off a lot of the wonderful complexity this bean has to offer. Basically though, if you prefer chocolate and caramel flavours to subtle spice and citrusy notes, then you could take it to the edge of Rolling 2nd-Crack but definitely no further.

    Hope this helps a bit mate :),
    Mal.

  17. #17
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Thanks for the great feedback!

    I will try and be a little bit more aggresive wth the HG.


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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    I did a batch 300g in the corretto the other day and another batch today.

    I pulled the roast just before the hints of SC starting and this has proved to be very popular in the filter machine at work. Might have to try this also in the plunger tomorrow morning.

  19. #19
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    I roasted this 8 mins to first crack and dropped it before the second and it looked and smelled great - much lighter than my previous roasts. It tasted fantastic only a day later and peaked 2 days post roast. I think when this bean is at its peak it is marvelous. What is striking is that its so rounded and smooth. It really has little linger and is so easy to drink in large quantities. Has anyone else noticed though that at about day 3-4 it drops off quickly and loses a fair bit of smoothness - still really nice but not like days 1-2 (and has longer aftertaste).

    Cheers

    PS. Still my fav bean!

  20. #20
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Just did a 300g roast, I see what everyone meant about the loud 1st crack, first crack came at 8.20 at 185C then slowed and took to start of second at 13.20 at 220C, will give it a try tomorrow after a days rest!

  21. #21
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Had a day off work due to rain (yes rain) first weve had for 50 days!! After the Peru Grace roast this morning I decided to try a 300g batch of Malawi from beanbay, took 1st crack to almost 11min and pulled at start of 2nd at 15.40, CS 9-10 looked great, nice and even.

  22. #22
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Quote Originally Posted by greenman link=1193913160/15#20 date=1202368897
    Had a day off work due to rain (yes rain) first weve had for 50 days!! After the Peru Grace roast this morning I decided to try a 300g batch of Malawi from beanbay, took 1st crack to almost 11min and pulled at start of 2nd at 15.40, CS 9-10 looked great, nice and even.
    I bet you hated that ;D

  23. #23
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    At 4-5 clear day post post I have found that a lighter tamp and a ristretto pour tidies the bean up nicely and gives it back most of what it had at the beginning:)

  24. #24
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    this batch of PVRGA I have noticed that it does not seem to be quite the match of the last lot...but still very good. I have roasted twice now with a nice ramp up with 20 degrees per minute and first crack at about 8 mins and pulled before second at about 200-205 degrees C...but I have noticed that no matter how I grind, dose and tamp I am getting thin crema out of this batch. I assume its just this lot of Peru, but has anyone else noticed this. I remember last time the Peru was not a crema monster, but this lot is a little lighter again.

    Cheers

  25. #25
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Gday Oz,

    What you could try with your next roast batch is to stretch out FC to about 10-11 minutes and the usual slow ramp after that just to the first snaps of SC. This should build more body into the resulting brew and perhaps realise a little more crema so is probably worth trying....

    Cheers mate :),
    Mal.

  26. #26
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Thanks Mal - I will give that a shot! The current brew is a bit thin. It will be easier to stretch it out than to reign it in!

    Cheers and thanks again.

  27. #27
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    It worked out very well Mal...like I remember the first batch. Very good heavy crema and dense espresso with a very smooth finish.

    Cheers and thanks again.

  28. #28
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Glad to hear it mate, its a beautiful coffee though..... 8-)

    Cheers,
    Mal.

  29. #29
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Just did this one...I dropped my guard a bit after the rolling first commenced 190 but I am looking forward to it. FC - 184 @ 11MIN 25 Seconds; Rolling at 190 11m 81 sec and end before second snaps at 205 degrees and 14.7 mins...CS8 and very even.

    Cheers


  30. #30
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Doesnt look to bad Oz 8-).....

    For the next batch perhaps, you could try slowing the 2nd Ramp down a little bit more so that youre heading towards SC occurring at about the 16-17 minute mark. This produces a truly beautiful cup as an S.O. espresso.... really creamy mouth-feel and lots of body, nice and sweet with the soft spice and earthiness that this bean seems to have plenty of. All the best mate :),

    Mal.

  31. #31
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Thanks for the feedback Mal:)

    So perhaps just a snap or 2 into the second....or even better try and pull it a fraction before.

    Cheers mate

  32. #32
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Quote Originally Posted by ozscott link=1193913160/30#30 date=1208680547
    Thanks for the feedback Mal:)

    So perhaps just a snap or 2 into the second....or even better try and pull it a fraction before.

    Cheers mate
    Yes, thats it mate..... just the first few snaps then pull and cool 8-).

    Ive also used this bean in an S.O. blend too mate with a 50/50 blend of the above and using the same thermal ramps with a batch pulled at around 3 minutes post Rolling FC. Makes for a very interesting and slightly more spicy cup with a touch of citrus, sort of a soft lemony sensation, a very clean finish and a light caramel aftertaste. This blend not only makes for great espresso but cuts through milk very well too.

    Cheers again :),
    Mal.

  33. #33
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Thanks Mal - I will try that. When you mean 3 mins past rolling FC you mean 3 mins past the start of the rolling FC?

    Cheers and thanks

  34. #34
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Quote Originally Posted by ozscott link=1193913160/30#32 date=1208688270
    Thanks Mal - I will try that. When you mean 3 mins past rolling FC you mean 3 mins past the start of the rolling FC?

    Cheers and thanks
    Sorry Oz,

    Should have made that more clear.... That is what I meant alright :-[. Its about the best stage of the roast to identify as a repeatable milestone and a good point to use a reference/gauge for other stages of the roast. Trying to use the first couple of pops as a milestone is always fraught with a large degree of error, as is the end of FC. Its a bit different when youre looking at the "completion" end of the roast though because there are so many finishing points used depending on an individuals preferences.

    Taking a batch to the first few snaps of SC for example is a pretty decent method to use when you want to maximise the intrinsic qualities of the bean with just a hint of the roast flavours such as the chocolate notes that a lot of people enjoy. Although in the case of this bean, theres more to lose than to gain IMHO.

    With the Peru Villa Grace Estate, Ive found (by unfortunate experience ::)), if you go too far into SC, even before Rolling SC itself starts, you seem to rapidly lose a lot of the intrinsic characters of the bean to the point that all youre left with is a kind of burnt caramel dominating flavour, with little or none of the soft spiciness and citrus flavours. It just seems a shame to have all these nuances "on tap", as it were, to only then burn them away by roasting too deeply as the bean then loses most of what makes it interesting.

    As with all facets of roasting though Oz, its a very personal thing and you may find that you prefer a darker or even a lighter roast so please only view my roast preferences as a point of reference, not an absolute. Anyway mate, as always, have fun...... :)

    Cheers,
    Mal.

    P.S.
    I should add..... I owe a lot of this helpful information to one very talented "Javaphile" who, a couple of years ago, encouraged me to experiment with slightly lighter roasts. It was while doing this that I really started to learn a lot more about the roasting process and the sort of attention that needs to be paid to each individual bean variety and crop for that matter. Certainly if you want to try and squeeze out the best a bean has to offer :).

  35. #35
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Thanks very much Mal :)

    Appreciate all that info mate - I am lodging that upstairs for the next roast and making written notes also.

    I tried the batch as roasted above - light roast. It looked like a CS8 but could be a bit shy of that (I find it a little hard to use the CS Card and it depends on the light). It is very nice with some nuances that I havent had before in this bean because, following your lead, I didnt go as far with the roast. What I take from your comments is that I need to back off temp as the second crack gets rolling to stop it ramping away as much towards the second crack. I should also get the rolling first back to 10 mins instead of over 11 mins....I got caught out because I assumed that outside it was about 24 when I did my C/Min calcs and in fact it was much cooler and I didnt re-adjust for that!

    Thanks again for all of you kind assistance Mal...will report back matey.

    Cheers

  36. #36
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    I did a large batch today - 1kg. I like the thermal stability and ease of keeping a nice climb with this amount - first time I have used this amount and the new Makita does not burn the beans even when trying to maintain a decent climb getting close to the FC - one inch from the middle of the mass at some stages.

    Here is a chart - dont worry about the name. I got caught out with how cold the beans were this AM - 10 degrees and ambient 12 degrees, so my rate of climb was too slow at about 15 degrees when I got going....I wonder how this will taste. after the gun went on it took 14.5 mins to FC. It looks and smells great.

    Cheers


  37. #37
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Quote Originally Posted by ozscott link=1193913160/20#35 date=1217813443
    I wonder how this will taste. *after the gun went on it took 14.5 mins to FC. *It looks and smells great.
    Should be wonderful Oz..... 8-)

    Its not "that" big a deal if FC is a little slower than the target youre aiming for. Theres a lot more difference noticeable if you shorten up FC significantly; the brews will taste brighter and more acidic the more you ramp up to FC. Not a bad way to go if you find a particular lot of beans a bit flat for your tastes but as you can imagine, you can shorten up FC too much and end up with signs of tipping or irregular roast patterns through the beans when you break them open and this has a decidedly negative impact of the flavour in the cup. Really tastes off to put it lightly.

    Overall your profile looks pretty good mate and Im sure you will be delighted with the results in the cup. Ive found with my Peru VGE of a season or two ago, that the flavour peaked at around days 4-5 and plateaued at this level for a further 4-5 days before the varietal subtleties started to fade away a little. Still made an excellent brew though all the way to the end; an excellent bean in my opinion. All the best mate, :)

    Mal.

  38. #38
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Thanks Mal - appreciate the feedback as always matey.

    I did a back to back with another kg and this time 11.99 mins to FC and rounded out at 17 mins. I have found with 1kg with these 2 batches is much easier to control the roast after the FC to stretch out to the SC.

    Cheers


  39. #39
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Off topic replies have been moved to [link=http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1217861457/0]This Thread[/link]

    Thought this discussion might generate interest on its own merits in a thread of its own...

    Mal.

  40. #40
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal link=1193913160/20#36 date=1217836392
    Quote Originally Posted by ozscott link=1193913160/20#35 date=1217813443
    I wonder how this will taste. *after the gun went on it took 14.5 mins to FC. *It looks and smells great.
    Should be wonderful Oz..... 8-)

    Its not "that" big a deal if FC is a little slower than the target youre aiming for. Theres a lot more difference noticeable if you shorten up FC significantly; the brews will taste brighter and more acidic the more you ramp up to FC. Not a bad way to go if you find a particular lot of beans a bit flat for your tastes but as you can imagine, you can shorten up FC too much and end up with signs of tipping or irregular roast patterns through the beans when you break them open and this has a decidedly negative impact of the flavour in the cup. Really tastes off to put it lightly.

    Overall your profile looks pretty good mate and Im sure you will be delighted with the results in the cup. Ive found with my Peru VGE of a season or two ago, that the flavour peaked at around days 4-5 and plateaued at this level for a further 4-5 days before the varietal subtleties started to fade away a little. Still made an excellent brew though all the way to the end; an excellent bean in my opinion. All the best mate, :)

    Mal.

    Eek... Im roasting with a popper and my first crack comes at around 4:15 !

    Is that too fast? Should i try to prolong it?

  41. #41
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Quote Originally Posted by ezralimm link=1193913160/20#39 date=1220081334
    Eek... Im roasting with a popper and my first crack comes at around 4:15 !

    Is that too fast? Should i try to prolong it?
    Hi "ezra"....

    If possible and it is practical to do so with your particular popper, you would definitely notice an improvement in the cup if you could stretch out the onset of Rolling First Crack (RFC) to between 6-8 minutes, with the first snaps of Second Crack (SC) about 4-6 minutes after that (depending on the bean variety and the depth of roast youre aiming for). I know its not always possible to create these sorts of profiles easily with a popper but what ever you could do to come as close as you can will definitely be worth it. 8-)

    Coarse adjustments to the roast profile can be achieved by reducing the batch size to lengthen the roast and visa versa to shorten it. Probably adjust about 10g at a time until you;re getting a profile thats close to what youre aiming for. There are quite a few mods that can be applied to various types of poppers to assist in their controllability and a search of the "Roasters" category will turn these up for you.

    All the best mate.... :)

    Mal.

  42. #42
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Thanks for the tips mal.

    hmm, are you "blob"? He signs off as "Mal." as well.

    I was thinking of getting a box fan and placing it directly under the popper where the intakes are... Or modding a hair dryer to blow cool air from under the popper to do the same thing.

  43. #43
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    Re: Peru Grace Estate

    Quote Originally Posted by ezralimm link=1193913160/40#41 date=1220947339
    hmm, are you "blob"? He signs off as "Mal." as well.
    Nope... An entirely different Mal ;D

    Quote Originally Posted by ezralimm link=1193913160/40#41 date=1220947339
    I was thinking of getting a box fan and placing it directly under the popper where the intakes are... Or modding a hair dryer to blow cool air from under the popper to do the same thing.
    Youll have to let us know how this works out mate,

    Cheers,
    [s]Blob[/s]... I mean, Mal. ;)



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