Scace Device Clone- Where?

[Paolo]

Is anyone able to tell me if there is a grouphead temperature measuring device commercially available that is more affordable than a Scace Device, which is currently around AUS$400 delivered.

Cheers,
Paolo

[Paolo]

Re: Scace Device Clone... Where?

I mean (of course) a device for measuring a shot....not for measuring the brewhead....should have been more specific.

[Koffee_Kosmo]

Re: Scace Device Clone- Where?

Pullman has one for hire
It was posted on the sponsors page a short time ago
Hope Greg does not mind if I quote his post  

The right brew pressure is one of the important factors in good espresso, but its one of the things that can be pretty difficult to measure without purpose-made devices. If the pressures off, no amount of grind / tamp / dose adjustment will really yield the best results. Since the pressure rarely needs to be changed once its correct, all most people need is a single opportunity to measure (and set if possible) their machines pressure, so the cost of a device they may only use once or twice is hard to justify for many. While the built-in brew pressure gauges on top-end machines are a very good guide, theyre rarely dead accurate to the pressure at the group; but for those with machines with no gauge, about the only way to approximate the brew pressure is to measure the pump rejection rate and work out the pressure from the pump manufacturers data. A good way of telling if youre right off but hardly accurate.

Perhaps this is the answer. I have just purchased a new 63mm stainless steel cased, glycerine-filled pressure pressure gauge which can read from 0-16 bar (0-1600kpa), and has the right fittings attached to it to allow it to be screwed on to the standard 3/8" spout fittings on most portafilters. Spouts off, basket out, gauge on, and voila - a portafilter pressure gauge! The glycerine filling means the gauge doesnt waver when being hit with the fluctuating pressure of a vibratory pump. Since I dont need this just lying around Im happy for any CSer to borrow this. The cost would be $20 including postage to you, and you then pay to post it back to me. Alternatively, if another CSer wants to borrow it, you each pay $15 and you can sort out the distribution between you with the last person sending it back to me.

Obviously a level of honesty is required here so Im trusting you not to just pass it around to all your coffee-luvn mates to use for nix - the cost of the gauge and associated fittings isnt insignificant and I think the hire fee is a pretty reasonable amount to pay for this service compared to the cost of purchasing a dedicated unit.

The only other condition is that it comes back to me in the condition it went out (minor marks and other reasonable wear and tear is fine) and with all issued components intact. It will come with a list of included fittings. Youre welcome to add any other fittings if you need to match it to your machine but please dont remove the ones that are on there as theyve been tightly locked together and sealed. If it comes back broken or with parts missing (or not at all!) therell be a charge of up to $50 to contribute to the replacement of the missing / damaged part(s), payable by the last person who had it - so make sure you inspect it as soon as you receive it and sort out any faults / missing parts with the person who had it before.

Let me know if youd like to borrow it - greg[_at_]coffeetamperDOTcomDOTau, otherwise feel free to start a thread on the subject if you want to get a group together and save a few dollars.

Greg

KK

[gregpullman]

Re: Scace Device Clone- Where?

No probs at all KK, though the one I have is not actually for temperature but just a gauge for brew pressure. However it wouldnt be that difficult to add a temperature probe so it can do temperature too.

Greg

[TC]

Re: Scace Device Clone- Where?

No probs at all KK, though the one I have is not actually for temperature but just a gauge for brew pressure. However it wouldnt be that difficult to add a temperature probe so it can do temperature too.

Greg

Im not so sure Greg...

Scace did a heap of work to locate the probe correctly, choose the correct puck material to replicate the heat soak of coffee within the portafilter and then also the flow of water through the portafilter.

I suspect that a probe in a group handle with a pressure gauge screwed onto the spout thread will come up well short...

When you buy a Scace, you purchase a whole heap of research and IP...and as with a great tamper, you gets what you pays for

2mcm

[cuppacoffee]

Re: Scace Device Clone- Where?


PM sent Paolo. I thought the current pricing of the scace was actually around US$400 not AU?

Just in regard to the link I sent you..

As you may already know, and for the benefit of those that dont, adding a temp probe does not convert a $100 pressure gauge handle into a scace. To start with, a scace also replicates the existence of a coffee puck.

The link to the unit I sent you is more expensive than a pressure gauge, cheaper than a scace, and might be good enough for whatever you need it for.

Cheers

[Paolo]

Re: Scace Device Clone- Where?

Thanks Greg and KK....but I would like to buy one myself. I already have a pressure gauge portafilter but I would like to ACCURATELY measure brew temperature.

As part of my machines setup, I have a thermocouple hard-wired into the top of each grouphead and connected to a digital thermometer. I can see easily exactly the progress of a cooling shot but do not really know the ACTUAL brew temperature.

If I run the cooling flush until just under an indicated 93C and then screw in a loaded and tamped portafilter I get a shot that runs between 88.5C and 91C...the lower ones (near 88.5C) when I stop the cooling flush to just less than 92.5C.... and towards the higher end (91C) when I finish the cooling flush just under the 93C mark. Any shot that I plan in this way gives GREAT results....so I do all my shots like this.

But in the search for an even BETTER shot, I am curious about ACTUAL brew temperatures....ie. the water temperature when the brew water combines with the temperature of the brass in the brewhead.

Cheers

[gregpullman]

Re: Scace Device Clone- Where?

Agreed 2mcm. Simply adding the probe so it could at least measure temperature wouldnt be that hard as I mentioned, but how that compares to a highly tuned specialist device is another question.

Anyway, all Im hiring out is the pressure gauge which I do know is accurate - my own machine was set to 9 bar with a proper PF pressure gauge before my eyes and this one gives the same reading. If someone reckons they can add a thermocouple to their portafilter and add the gauge to its bottom to read the pressure then best of luck to them.

Greg

[Paolo]

Re: Scace Device Clone- Where?

Thanks, Dennis.
I have already enquired about this one.

As 2mcm said (thanks, 2mcm),

"Scace did a heap of work to locate the probe correctly, choose the correct puck material to replicate the heat soak of coffee within the portafilter and then also the flow of water through the portafilter."



The original Scace device is USD274 and it is purely for measuring brew temp.

The Scace 2 is USD427 and is built into a portafilter with a pressure gauge built-in. It measures brew temp AND brew pressure.



The one that you sent me details of doesnt have the puck material that 2mcm mentioned...but I am still looking into it.

I just thought that there MUST be other ways of achieving the same measurement already existing somewhere.

[Wushoes]

Re: Scace Device Clone- Where?

I think Sparky has built his own.

[Dimal]

Re: Scace Device Clone- Where?

You can always use a "bead type" t/couple and site it on top of the coffee puck that is prepared in the normal way, then lock the PF into the Group as per normal and then pull the shot.

This is the method Sparky used for quite some time and that I adopted when I obtained a suitable t/couple. Locking the PF in as per normal prevents any leaks around the t/c cable and if you leave the t/c set aside with the new kinks in the cable, you can re-use it many times without causing any damage to the t/c cable or the Group Gasket.

If you couple this with your Pressure Measuring PF you will have what is effectively a Scace Device but with a genuine coffee puck in place.... 8-)

Mal.

[Paolo]

Re: Scace Device Clone- Where?

Thanks Mal,
That sounds like an entirely sensible and practical idea.

I am still surprised that there doesnt appear to be a plethora of gizmos out there that have been developed for this particular application.

Cheers,
Paolo

[Dimal]

Re: Scace Device Clone- Where?

Thanks Mal,
That sounds like an entirely sensible and practical idea.

I am still surprised that there doesnt appear to be a plethora of gizmos out there that have been developed for this particular application.

Cheers,
Paolo

I think a lot of techie/engineering types have just constructed their own and not made a big fuss about it, to be honest. I spent many years in the early part of my career both designing and constructing specialist instruments for prototypical applications and something like this doesnt present a huge challenge. I may construct a device of my own design one of these days but that will probably be down the track a bit.

For the time being though, you cant beat the use of the t/c bead sitting on top of a standard prepared coffee puck... 8-)

All the best,
Mal.

[Paolo]

Re: Scace Device Clone- Where?

Hey Mal,
If you ever do decide to make a "Mace" (Mal/Scace)....could you make a pair of them? I would love to have one myself.

Cheers,
Paolo

[Dimal]

Re: Scace Device Clone- Where?

Ill keep it in mind Paolo.... ;D

Mal.