Just how much is 30ml

[Cicarda]

Just how much is 30ml
Sounds such an obvious question ! I have been experimenting with my silvia to produce the 30mls of coffee in the 25 to 30 sec mark. Can someone tell me should I only be measuring the liquid in the shot as 30ml or include any crema produced? Also if the shot sits for 30 sec to 1min the crema slowly reduces and the vol of liquid increases. So my question is just what am i measuring when it comes to 30mls and when do i measuring it??
Thanks
Cicarda

PS silvia is making great coffee  :P

[GregWormald]

Re: Just how much is 30ml

I have always assumed that the 30 ml includes everything that is expressed, at the time it is expressed.

Remember that 30 ml is only a guideline, express as much as you want to get the taste you like.

In the US the common measure of an espresso is 1.5 oz or close to 45 ml for a single. My standard shot is 25 ml for a double--I like my shots sweet, thick and not bitter.

Greg

[greenman]

Re: Just how much is 30ml

My shots are the same as Greg cicarda, double basket 25-30ml=bellissimo!!!

[Intellidepth]

Re: Just how much is 30ml

Whats extracted immediately incl. crema.

Youve probably noticed the crema dissipation difference between 3-day old beans and those at two weeks. Pretty large. I also prefer shorter ristretto style shots, but tend to allow my fresh beans a slightly longer extraction than my older beans.

[lilcol]

Re: Just how much is 30ml

I agree, I like mine with that nice fresh crema and enjoy a nice strong double shot, with the first 25 - 30ml, much before the bitterness starts.

Sensational

[yeeza]

Re: Just how much is 30ml

In the US the common measure of an espresso is 1.5 oz or close to 45 ml for a single.

really? :-?

[Koffee_Kosmo]

Re: Just how much is 30ml

In the US the common measure of an espresso is 1.5 oz or close to 45 ml for a single. My standard shot is 25 ml for a double--I like my shots sweet, thick and not bitter.

1.5 oz = 44.36029453125 ml

A google search confirms Americans measure a single shot as 1-1/2 oz

KK

[Martial_Monkey]

Re: Just how much is 30ml

That one sounds fishy to me as well particularly as the espresso parts measurement glass is marked:
Double shot 2oz
Double shot "Ristretto" 1.5oz
Single shot 1oz
Single shot "Ristretto 0.75oz

Id post an image except it is a commercial site.

[Cicarda]

Re: Just how much is 30ml

I have always assumed that the 30 ml includes everything that is expressed, at the time it is expressed.

Remember that 30 ml is only a guideline, express as much as you want to get the taste you like.

Whats extracted immediately incl. crema.

It seems then that the 30ml includes the crema. This will now change the way i approach pulling my shots as i have always assumed it was the liquid in the shot that should be approx 30ml and the crema was just a bonus.

I agree, I like mine with that nice fresh crema and enjoy a nice strong double shot, with the first 25 - 30ml, much before the bitterness starts.  

A question coffeeCol - If u are producing your 25-30ml from your double shot basket how long would this take? 15,20,25 sec? I have been using the double basket to pull 2 shots each of about 30 ml in a total time of 30 sec approx. However i have been basing my vol on just the liquid not the crema as well. this could account for a sometimes bitter taste(it seems this is common at the end of a shot)
I might have to adjust my tamp and grind to slow up the shots just a little and start some serious tasting.

[yeeza]

Re: Just how much is 30ml

1.5 oz = 44.36029453125 mlShocked

A google search confirms Americans measure a single shot as 1-1/2 oz

Pretty sure thats a Charbucks standard to cut through all the syrups and milk in those buckets they serve up.
I know the joints Id actually go in to drink at in the US would never run pours that long.

[Martial_Monkey]

Re: Just how much is 30ml

A question coffeeCol - If u are producing your 25-30ml from your double shot basket how long would this take? 15,20,25 sec? I have been using the double basket to pull 2 shots each of about 30 ml in a total time of 30 sec approx. However i have been basing my vol on just the liquid not the crema as well. this could account for a sometimes bitter taste(it seems this is common at the end of a shot)
I might have to adjust my tamp and grind to slow up the shots just a little and start some serious tasting.

You can achieve a Ristretto (around half the volume from the same size dose - eg. 30mL total from a double basket or 15mL from a single) one of two ways. The first is how most cafes do it (well those that even know what a ristretto is  ;D) being pulling a shot like you normally would but cutting the shot at the 12-18 second mark. The other is how alot of domestic users do it and that is by having the shot run for the same 30 second time but only extracting half the volume of coffee. Both are yummy and achieve a similar result  .

However, if you want to make two drinks of the one basket personally I wouldnt use a restricted shot. Id want 25-30mL of espresso in each cup (which to me should be around the 150-170mL size tops). However at home (and work) I quite often use a doppio (double) ristretto for my single cup.

[WSullivan]

Re: Just how much is 30ml

Measuring a shot by liquid not liquid and creama would make for one massive shot!, especially with fresh beans!

i agree with martial monkey, doppio ristrettos can taste amazing, definately my favorite, im not really a fan of the standard espresso shot, not too bad at home but there seems to be too much variation in the delivered product from even the most reputable of coffee shops or espresso bars, the doppio just seems to bring out alot more flavour for my uneducated pallatte :

[Shilling]

Re: Just how much is 30ml

try to focus more on how the espresso comes out as opposed to the volume you get.

look for colour, thickness, how it hangs from the spout. once you see it get thin in consistency and quite light in colour then stop it.

if the result is 30ml, great! if its 15ml, great! if its 40ml, great!
get the idea?

ristrettos may taste good but i feel you are short changing the full flavour spectrum of the bean/blend you are brewing.


luke

[A_M]

Re: Just how much is 30ml

You can achieve a Ristretto (around half the volume from the same size dose - eg. 30mL total from a double basket or 15mL from a single) one of  

Yep that how I often take it..


I guess what I see here is a lot of chat about 30ml...   So WHAT ?

1: What are you running a Single or Double basket...

2: What size are those baskets... 8, 9, 12, 14, 16, 18, 22g etc etc

3: Then there is the issue of the BEANS....  But does it matter  

For those not being fully aware they might think they should be getting 30ml from a double..  Now you can...  But one would expect that is approx 30ml into each glass/cup.  While it may be implied, it needs to be stated for clarity and context for those who may be lurking / reading but not understand all the inputs...


In general...  the Rule of thumb is approx 25 - 30ml for a single and 50 - 60ml for a double.

For me, I tend to go with the approx of the top of the crema....  This a pulled shot  

Now if I was being exact it would be to teh meniscus of the fluid, however even from a measurement point of view this is not easy to measure, when lots of foam is involved...

Now you could wait until it all settles... However as the density of the foam changes with all the inputs, again it is only an approximation and may not be consistent.....

Thus at the end of teh day from a Measurements and audit trail and tracibility etc...  The volume is ONLY AN INDICATOR..

Thus - use it as such, dont try to defind critical outcomes on an INDICATOR..  

Thats for politicians

WHY... Because teh best and only measurement is what in teh cup; Is that, that is measured by what the consumer thinks of it     That is the OUTCOME your looking for  :-*