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  • Down-dosing

    Given the aussie habit of loading a triple-basket with grounds until itll only just lock in under the shower screen, then aiming for 30ml/25sec or 60ml/25sec, is anyone else doing the opposite?

    Playing around with down-dosing has let me bring out more fruit/floral notes in blends and reduce channeling but at the expense of ripping through a lot more beans - what has it done for you?

  • #2
    Re: Down-dosing

    Ive played with downdosing and up-and-over dosing. Personally, I think that each SO/blend has their own sweet spot or spots, depending on what youre trying to get out of that particular bean.

    Theres something to be said for sticking with one bean for a while and learning its intricacies.

    The advice I give myself is to play with the variables and decide what I like best. 250 grams often is not enough to really get familiar with one bean.

    I will say though, I hate soggy pucks, even if the shot itself is ok.

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    • #3
      Re: Down-dosing

      Yeah - I think I need 1kg of beans to find the real sweet spot of a blend - maybe 3 months and 30kg. Unfortunately, its rare I can put up with more than a kilo of beans before I get bored of it and want the next try!

      J

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      • #4
        Re: Down-dosing

        Originally posted by 4E636269736E737E070 link=1249279421/0#0 date=1249279421
        *Snip

        Playing around with down-dosing has let me bring out more fruit/floral notes in blends and reduce channeling but at the expense of ripping through a lot more beans - what has it done for you?
        Huh how has lower doses mean you use more beans? :-?

        Playing around with doses is fun (and well worth it). With the blend we use at work it tastes bad if you use lower doses. I tried one in my coffee the other day and it was amazing I thought I was taste stale coffee. On the other hand if you use too high a dose you can get a tartness on the back of the palate.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Down-dosing

          Originally posted by 7E5241475A525F6C7E5C5D58564A330 link=1249279421/3#3 date=1249283643
          Originally posted by 4E636269736E737E070 link=1249279421/0#0 date=1249279421
          *Snip

          Playing around with down-dosing has let me bring out more fruit/floral notes in blends and reduce channeling but at the expense of ripping through a lot more beans - what has it done for you?
          Huh how has lower doses mean you use more beans? :-?

          Playing around with doses is fun (and well worth it). With the blend we use at work it tastes bad if you use lower doses. I tried one in my coffee the other day and it was amazing I thought I was taste stale coffee. On the other hand if you use too high a dose you can get a tartness on the back of the palate.

          I think he ment that he spent some time playing with the dose levels etc and may have ment that a few shots etc just went into the bin ;D

          It could also mean that where he got a great shot... He has found that when he has those beans again, he lowers teh dose and get such a sweet/ great shot... That he has to have a second 8-)

          Like all txt ... Context / Humour / facial expressions can not be read... We communicate more through our body language than many think... Thus many get upset / or miss the point in Forums etc... Due to that missing coms channel - The body

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Down-dosing

            Interesting, I havent tried a triple basket in years. Normally I dose a double around 16 grams.
            Recently been getting Mecca beans as my wife walks past there to get to work. To be honest Ive been a little slack of late and havent really experimented with the coffee. Am I allowed to say that here?

            Grant

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Down-dosing

              Originally posted by 3B2F34333A3802392A383131382F5D0 link=1249279421/5#5 date=1249287492
              Interesting, I havent tried a triple basket in years. Normally I dose a double around 16 grams.
              Recently been getting Mecca beans as my wife walks past there to get to work. To be honest Ive been a little slack of late and havent really experimented with the coffee. Am I allowed to say that here?

              Grant
              Yes... Then the mods see that you being slack and you pay penance ;D

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Down-dosing

                Originally posted by 4865646F75687578010 link=1249279421/0#0 date=1249279421
                expense of ripping through a lot more beans
                I means that I am binning more shots as I have less knowledge of how to make a great low-dose shot, what the markers are etc. eg. if the top of the puck can be soggy, the shot isnt channeling and my usual dose and distribution techniques are stuffed, it makes it more difficult to get an acceptable result.

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                • #9
                  Re: Down-dosing

                  I am gonna drag this thread back to the top and ask for some help / theories / advice. My thoughts are not exactly "down dosing" more down sizing the basket.

                  I am no real snob, i like my coffee but most of the time mine could be compared to just your average coffee shop taste. I normally use a double basket on every machine i have now or owned, mostly because this is what i have read most do and i seem to make a better tasting coffee using one .

                  Today i got out the single basket , sadly it has a ridge so my tamper does not fit well and made it had to get a good tamp happening. I think i have a single ridge less somewhere but need to find it :-/

                  Thing is after a few rough shots i found it very hard to pull any sort of shot that looked any good @ 30ml.

                  I reckon my double baskets and pulling a 30-40ml shot (based on blonding) are allowing me to to some part ignore "proper" technique and covers many mistakes i am making.

                  I suppose my question is how many pros (at coffee shops) and home users are using singles and getting shots "good" and how many are just using doubles to cover "bad" shots? Not really saying its "wrong" but just thinking about it?

                  I know it is often discussed that the shot tastes better cut short in a double, i agree and like those shots but was thinking about the coffee i make and why some shots are better than others etc.

                  Looking at the double basket in a 6900 / 6910 they seem HUGE is this to help the newbie to make a better tasting cup? (they are a popular machine so a good example of the "double / triple" effect)

                  Cheers

                  Leeham

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Down-dosing

                    Originally posted by 606C656868610D0 link=1249279421/8#8 date=1249857771
                    Looking at the double basket in a 6900 / 6910 they seem HUGE is this to help the newbie to make a better tasting cup? (they are a popular machine so a good example of the "double / triple" effect)
                    I wonder how much influence Paul Bassett had there?

                    At the time the Sunbeam was released, Paul was the updose king- grind coarse and fill the biggest basket you can find and IMHO, nothing wrong with that except that its a lousy retail strategy.

                    At the recent Aromafest, we used Pauls coffee on the ECA stand. Paul again asked us to use triples and grind fine, to dose around 3mm below the ridge . I have never dosed so low...

                    I guess the answer is to find a strategy which works for your style and delivers the results you want in the cup. After all, thats what its all about

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Down-dosing

                      Originally posted by 57626F685C406C65656666030 link=1249279421/9#9 date=1249858161
                      At the time the Sunbeam was released, Paul was the updose king- grind coarse and fill the biggest basket you can find and IMHO, nothing wrong with that except that its a lousy retail strategy.

                      Hi Chris  
                      could you elaborate on why you think it "lousy",

                      My idea is that they thought the "extra" coffee would allow a new user to get a better "tasting" double /shot cup rather than maybe an over extracted bitter thin "single"?
                      I would have considered that sunbeam would have wanted the "best" for its customers and this may have been a easy way to help them? Also creates that return customer they really want!!

                      Not having a go at you as you would see lots of people (i think) stepping up to better machines and have a vastly better understanding than me about all things coffee.
                      Out of interest do you recommend people (your customers) start using a double to help achieve a better coffee till they get there technique sorted? Would this be over all of your range or just some, not at all?

                      I agree to do "what works best" for myself as yes thats what its about   but was interested in this thread and basket size and others ideas thoughts. Might help me in my "cup"  

                      Cheers
                      Leeham

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Down-dosing

                        Originally posted by 5F535A57575E320 link=1249279421/10#10 date=1249860324
                        Hi Chris, could you elaborate on why you think it "lousy"?  
                        Hi Maheel- perhaps I wasnt specific enough there. I was implying that if youre running a cafe, 25g doubles may impact too heavily on the bottom line...Keep in mind that the Sunbeam originally shipped with an effective triple.

                        For those at home, I dont think it matters and can provide a little fudge factor. Beginers will often find a double easier and many of us simply dont bother with singles- perferring a doppio ristretto over an espresso.

                        Hope thats as clear as mud

                        Chris

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Down-dosing

                          Originally posted by 5E6B66615549656C6C6F6F0A0 link=1249279421/11#11 date=1249872723

                          Hi Maheel- perhaps I wasnt specific enough there. I was implying that if youre running a cafe, 25g doubles may impact too heavily on the bottom line...
                          Hope thats as clear as mud

                          Chris

                          Ahhhh yes thats made it clear, i was thinking that the fudge factor of a triple allows sunbeam users a nicer coffee.

                          The cost to the home user in extra coffee would be low, compared to the effect on the margins for a retailer (cafe).

                          But the fudge factor is a benefit to sunbeam as more people "might" have a better experience than if it was shipped with a single and sell more machines. Thats what i as thinking and thought "good strategy"

                          I got to find that ridgeless basket and have a play....... A single looks so small with not enough coffee in it to me......

                          thanks for explaining

                          Leeham

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                          • #14
                            Re: Down-dosing

                            [QUOTE=34010C0B3F230F06060505600 link=1249279421/9#9 date=1249858161]
                            Originally posted by 606C656868610D0 link=1249279421/8#8 date=1249857771
                            At the recent Aromafest, we used Pauls coffee on the ECA stand. Paul again asked us to use triples and grind fine, to dose around 3mm below the ridge . I have never dosed so low...

                            I guess the answer is to find a strategy which works for your style and delivers the results you want in the cup. After all, thats what its all about
                            a couple of years back i remember meeting paul at a coffee expo held by a big electrical store. i was on the sunbeam stand demonstrating the 6910 and he was on the main stage as a guest speaker.

                            over the weekend i remember paul and myself experimenting a lot with dosing on the 6910.

                            different baskets, changing the dosage, grind etc. at one stage we were dosing that low the basket was only around half full.

                            the whole time i was giving him heaps about his up-dosing on the dvds. ;D

                            what an interesting weekend.

                            luke

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Down-dosing

                              Imo single baskets are a compromised design and dont give great results regardless of the baristas talent. Really good coffee shops tend not to use them at all and will instead just waste a shot.

                              I play around a bit with different sized doubles, I have a coffeeparts rigeless which holds upto about 20gm and the OEM silvia basket which holds 15 or 16gm,

                              Generally I use the larger basket to extend blonding closer to the 25 second mark.

                              Times I use the smaller basket include when the coffee is fresher then ideal, or when its just a bit flat tasting, It tends to bring out a bit more complexity/acidity.

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