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  • #16
    Re: Another poor coffee shop

    Originally posted by 4578747C6E170 link=1255131901/12#12 date=1255424263
    Nobody would deny that it would be very difficult to identify good cafes, given the fact that it is the Barista, not the cafe that is good. I would imagine that there is a lot of turnover in Baristas in common with the rest of the Hospitality Industry.  That is why I think you could only draw attention to the good Baristas.  I would be thinking any qualiication would need to be at the Certificate level from a recognised training institution that has itself achieved the required teaching standard and updates its license annually.  Given that most Baristas would not necessarily have anywhere to display their Certificate, I could imagine them being given a distinctive cloth badge to attach to their clothing.  Sure TAFEs offer Barista courses already but these vary wildly in quality and really need to conform to a Nationally established benchmark.  I guess its all a lot of work but I am thinking it would be good for a skilled Barista to be able to proudly wear a badge of attainment for all to see. (& good for the rest of us as well)
    Maybe a tiered certification program (like SCAEs) is required...

    However, that doesnt change the fact that a good barista still wont be able to serve the best quality coffee with inferior beans.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Another poor coffee shop

      Originally posted by 3237243F23253E560 link=1255131901/15#15 date=1255427171
      However, that doesnt change the fact that a good barista still wont be able to serve the best quality coffee with inferior beans.
      And just because somebody qualified at some stage doesnt mean they care enough to do it right.

      And as I say about doctors*--"remember that half the doctors* out there graduated at the bottom of their class".

      Greg
      * choose any profession.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Another poor coffee shop

        Originally posted by 44716664546C716E626F67030 link=1255131901/16#16 date=1255440451
        And as I say about doctors*--"remember that half the doctors* out there graduated at the bottom of their class".
        Well to put it more accurately, half the doctors out there graduated as being below average. While understanding what you meant, it paints a rather cynical POV of <any profession> as:
        (a) half of them will also be above average, and
        (b) even if the standard of the candidates in one Uni intake was extremely high , there will always be those who turn out below average. Its the nature of statistics.

        Anyway, back on-topic, I dont see the point in a rating system - its too arbitrary and ephemeral (as the rating process is not ongoing due to logistics).

        I could go to any one of the cafes recommended in Good Coffee Where and get a lousy cup of coffee because the regular barista was not on or had a 1 in a 1000 bad pour or whatever.

        A normally ordinary cafe could supply great beans and hire a champion barista on the day to gain a high rating.

        One of the cafes I recommended I no longer patronise because of fallen standards. Others are often hot-and-miss. Only a couple mentioned are capable of producing good coffee 99% of the time.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Another poor coffee shop

          This is so right, I believe that the true professionals (of any and all professions) are those who enter the field out of passion for the work involved. The opportunists who select their future on the basis there is great financial reward for them, do not have the needed passion. Consequently if I visit a cafe and don,t "feel the love" (for their work) I almost always find average or worse coffee and just dont bother going back there.

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          • #20
            Re: Another poor coffee shop

            I love coffee.

            I also work in a cafe and am frustrated 99% of the time. Why?

            -I observe the principles of making coffee and noone else does.
            -Our coffee is locally roasted yet average.
            -My boss will give me a who do you think you are look if I suggest changing the grind.
            -No tamper is used, I bring my pullman into work whenever I can.
            -Staff that have no idea use the machine and I cringe when they do.
            -Grounds that have been in the grinder overnight will be used unless I throw them away (whilst the boss isnt looking).
            -Grind on demand, yeah right!
            -Staff have no idea of how to identify when an extraction is complete.
            -Staff pack coffee poorly and use built in tamper on grinder which is 3ml too small for baskets.
            -Decaf is pre-ground.

            Luckily, I have a great home setup and a desire to setup a roasting business at some stage. I also try to educate other staff but this fails because im not the boss.

            I feel for any other CS member who loves coffee yet works in a poor coffee quality environment.

            P.S The cafe/staff are great, but changes need to be made...

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Another poor coffee shop

              Originally posted by 46343477706D6A63040 link=1255131901/19#19 date=1256009296
              I love coffee.

              I also work in a cafe and am frustrated 99% of the time. Why?

              -I observe the principles of making coffee and noone else does.
              -Our coffee is locally roasted yet average.
              -My boss will give me a who do you think you are look if I suggest changing the grind.
              -No tamper is used, I bring my pullman into work whenever I can.
              -Staff that have no idea use the machine and I cringe when they do.
              -Grounds that have been in the grinder overnight will be used unless I throw them away (whilst the boss isnt looking).
              -Grind on demand, yeah right!
              -Staff have no idea of how to identify when an extraction is complete.
              -Staff pack coffee poorly and use built in tamper on grinder which is 3ml too small for baskets.
              -Decaf is pre-ground.

              Luckily, I have a great home setup and a desire to setup a roasting business at some stage. I also try to educate other staff but this fails because im not the boss.

              I feel for any other CS member who loves coffee yet works in a poor coffee quality environment.

              P.S The cafe/staff are great, but changes need to be made...

              that hurts to read that... definitely unfortunate... fortunately where i work, i have finally proven myself (to them... not to myself) that i have at least some knowledge (96% barista comp scoring... not championship material but at least competant... not to mention i do try to observe the whole espresso process)

              so no i have a little more control over it... that being said, our shop observes the espresso process properly, it just depends on who is on with the quality i guess..

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Another poor coffee shop

                Also... i have a poor coffee shop that i went to...

                i arrive and should have followed my instincts and walked out... i ordered my coffee and watched the following process...

                she picked up a small metal pouring jug... and place an already old shot (didnt make me a new shot) into my takeaway cup...

                she then picked up, already steamed milk and reheated it... it was also a horrible milk heating sound, obviously didnt know what she was doing...

                poured it out and sprinkled chocolate on it...

                i walked out... tipped it out and drove to my work to get one from there...

                *sigh*

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Another poor coffee shop

                  I feel ya boosting. Remember, youre trying to change a culture.

                  Ive got a three-pronged attack going on.

                  Educated customers give feedback to the bosses that good coffee is good and bad coffee is not worth paying for.

                  then fellow staff are encouraged not thru love of coffee (cause theyre not all into it) but in pride of work (we have the a-team at work, and its a bit of a clique, but the sort of clique that newbies work hard to become a part of, cause were the cool kids and we sling a mean cup of joe, ya know)

                  And finally through the management chain, who are pretty much about dollar lines, so I find ways to sell things.

                  For instance I wanted a real tamper. Not the attached one. I started off saying it would improve the coffee and reduce wastage. Then I pointed out that you could move faster by having the tamper free so as one person doses they move out of the way and tamp up their end of the machine and make room for person #2 to get dosing and underway. Fellow staff supported me on it, cause they want to move free and fast in their work and congestion in coffee-corner is a problem.

                  Then we got complaints from customers that theyd had weak coffees. Now I know it was probably from when a certain woman was on that never goes 2 shots into her mugs, because she can be quicker if theres only 1 shot into two mugs, but I turned this back to the tamper issue by pointing out that if we were tamping firmer with a properly fitting tamper we would produce richer shots.

                  And whos encouraging customers to voice their concerns? Moi. And whos rallying the troops in the workplace? Me again. And who grabs the department heads ear, or the guy on the board, or the CEO, and just has a little impromptu chat? You get the idea. So from all three directions the culture starts to change so that good coffee is good business, way cool, and a sought after item delivered consistently.

                  Not there yet but Ive been working on it since I started nearly 4 years ago and am finally seeing some progress. Now to get out of the bloody contract on the beans!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Another poor coffee shop

                    Originally posted by 636D606F786E6F010 link=1255131901/1#1 date=1255134943
                    I hear you brother although I tend to only try coffee shops when I am travelling. My wife hates being with me when I order she thinks it is mean.  
                    Originally posted by 536E626A78010 link=1255131901/5#5 date=1255252601
                    Ha!  This all makes me feel better because I am another hopeless optomist who persists in ordering coffee at airports and random coffee shops in the hope that they will be drinkable.  My wife always visibly grits her teeth with the "Why do you DO this to yourself" look.
                    Same here, until I had a revelation... If your wife is with you - and like mine she has a lower threshold for bad coffee - order hers first and dont decide on yours until you take a sip.  

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Another poor coffee shop

                      Originally posted by 1A3D2B3921520 link=1255131901/7#7 date=1255313908
                      We have - its called the "Good Coffee Where?" threads... If its not on there, then dont bother but it needs to be added to as people see fit (and have enough post counts).
                      Unfortunately no ability to input to those threads from those of us not up to the required number of posts yet.

                      I visited Brisbane for work last week and used the info in “good coffee where” to find a couple of places to try near where I was staying, but can’t provide any feedback.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Another poor coffee shop

                        Well you are well on your way, just jot down your notes and in no time you will be snobby enough to input ;D

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Another poor coffee shop

                          Originally posted by 015E46505B505C555556565E525D330 link=1255131901/13#13 date=1255425129
                          I got a call today from a friend of a couple of women who have purchased a failing cafe. Maybe I could assist with some consulting?

                          The facts:[*]One is an economist[*]Neither has ever used an espresso machine[*]Neither has ever run a small business[*]Neither has ever worked with food[*]Neither has ever employed or managed a team of staff

                          They figure that they can just use the existing machine and decidedly average coffee and make a few small changes in the first 6 months..Wanna form an orderly queue at the door CSers?

                          Keep an eye out for a very cheap cafe for sale in about 8-12 months Id reckon :

                          2mcm
                          I wonder what percentage of losses will be given away to friends in the way of free food and drink? Sounds like lifestyle change with NFI. Im curious what they identified were the reasons the previous owners did not make money?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Another poor coffee shop

                            Originally posted by 1E6C6C2F2835323B5C0 link=1255131901/19#19 date=1256009296
                            I love coffee.

                            I also work in a cafe and am frustrated 99% of the time. Why?

                            -I observe the principles of making coffee and noone else does.
                            -Our coffee is locally roasted yet average.
                            -My boss will give me a who do you think you are look if I suggest changing the grind.
                            -No tamper is used, I bring my pullman into work whenever I can.
                            -Staff that have no idea use the machine and I cringe when they do.
                            -Grounds that have been in the grinder overnight will be used unless I throw them away (whilst the boss isnt looking).
                            -Grind on demand, yeah right!
                            -Staff have no idea of how to identify when an extraction is complete.
                            -Staff pack coffee poorly and use built in tamper on grinder which is 3ml too small for baskets.
                            -Decaf is pre-ground.
                            I feel all that. I worked in a cafe exactly the same. The coffee was Illy and that was enough. At least we pulled shots by sight.

                            -Decaf = pods in a regular single filter basket :P
                            -Hopper and doser were often filled at the end of day ready for the next morning.
                            -Never changed the grind, however is was roughly in the zone except for when the coffee was completely stale.
                            -Plastic tamper about 3-4mm to small
                            -double baskets on the small side imo
                            -single baskets were allways underdosed resulting in cracked soggy channled pucks.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Another poor coffee shop

                              Originally posted by 3921242431200B39353A6263540 link=1255131901/26#26 date=1256096191
                              I wonder what percentage of losses will be given away to friends in the way of free food and drink?
                              Exactly what I saw happening at the place I worked at for a few weeks.

                              He had an excellent location but didnt take advantage of it.

                              I went by some time later and it was closed and empty; still is.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Another poor coffee shop

                                After being poisened on 4  occasions, 2 by places promenting their coffee expertise... I have just stoped at Sexie Coffie and had one of the best milk coffie I have had in a while.  K (name escapese) was observed cleaning the group and group handle.

                                A good start.

                                Well I will post a pic of the milk ( later) but have to say: a great drink and some positive work practices were observed. Tis a shame that others do not tale the time to practice what they often preach / advertise.

                                Thanks K ... I enjoyed that coffee.

                                [edit]I also passed on my thanks to the management of sexie coffie and got a prompt reply and that they had advised that staff that were on.. Great to hear... One day some of those staff will work elseware or start their own places... Maybe one of them might like to go and visit redzone in NZ

                                PS... Can not get the pics of the crappy iPhone.. Maybe by Sunday... Mission critical tool that is not fit for tossing at even a window.[/edit]

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