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  • TC
    replied
    Re: Another poor coffee shop

    Guys- I really dont think these discussions add anything to the forum whatsoever. :-?

    We have good coffee where threads and lets keep discussions positive...

    Thread closed

    Leave a comment:


  • jayjay
    replied
    Re: Another poor coffee shop

    Originally posted by 42475F1D151B142C0 link=1255131901/30#30 date=1261908814
    We use thermometers for every coffee we make, rather than trying to judge temp by hand.
    If you dont mind the suggestion, try a temperature test with your thermometers when they first come out of the packet and then again every few weeks.
    Where I work, we tested our thermometers one day on the advice of another colleague in the coffee industry and found HUGE variations in the readings.
    Consequently we dont use them any more and go on the old - hand around the jug routine. But we have people who work only behind the machine so their hands "feel" for the temp is pretty spot on.
    I guess if you were rotating those working behind the machine alot then it would be harder for them to stay in touch with feeling for the right milk temp.


    Leave a comment:


  • tashie
    replied
    Re: Another poor coffee shop

    Originally posted by 0E060F0A000A0C1610630 link=1255131901/8#8 date=1255314059
    maybe a little CS sticker for the window?
    I Iike it! Where can I get me some of those

    Leave a comment:


  • Thundergod
    replied
    Re: Another poor coffee shop

    Hi Nathan.
    Being an auditor Im one for consistency and standards too.

    Beware though.
    An Espro will only give you a consistent tamp if used correctly.
    A milk thermometer lags and if not calibrated regularly will not give a true reading.

    Dont get too caught up about 30lbs and 30ml.
    Id rather get 25mls than an extra 5mls of blonding.

    Leave a comment:


  • nks1978
    replied
    Re: Another poor coffee shop

    Ive got another point of view on this.

    I have trouble seeing the possibility of consistency between baristas, working the same machine, over the course of a day, without something extra.

    Too often the training Ive seen seems to frown upon using any technology to promote consistency; from the dosing, through the tamping, to the temperature of the milk.

    My wife and I have (very) recently opened a roastery in Brisbane. Weve been talking about consistency and what we cant stand for more than a year, and we decided to put our money where our mouth is.

    Were using an Espro http://www.espro.ca/tamper.php tamper, to guarantee the same tamp every single time. We set and check the drop on the grinders ourselves, to ensure a consistent 8g every time (we upped it a bit). We check the grind first thing in the morning, and consistently throughout the day. We use thermometers for every coffee we make, rather than trying to judge temp by hand.
    The theory is, no matter who is behind the counter, you should always get a consistent extraction, the right temp, and coffee that is freshly roasted.
    The feedback were getting is excellent; people are crying out for it.
    Plus, a money back guarantee on every cup we sell.

    Were roasting on site, we have a Brazilian RFA blend as the house blend, a single origin of the month, and customers who keep coming back.

    Training is important, but I will argue to my last breath you cannot get a consistent retail output of 30lbs of pressure on the tamp, and the right temp on the milk without technological intervention.

    Well be hiring staff in the new year. I do agree that I dont want any of the self-styled baristas out there. Instead I want someone with a great personality, who loves coffee, and is willing to put in the effort to follow the system to ensure each and every coffee is as good as it can be.

    btw - my wife enrolled in one of the popular barista courses in Brisbane, just to see how theyre teaching potential staff. It was rubbish. e.g. Heat the milk until its ouch (result, 15 degrees difference between two students). Just guess what 30mL looks like.

    Nathan

    Leave a comment:


  • A_M
    replied
    Re: Another poor coffee shop

    After being poisened on 4  occasions, 2 by places promenting their coffee expertise... I have just stoped at Sexie Coffie and had one of the best milk coffie I have had in a while.  K (name escapese) was observed cleaning the group and group handle.

    A good start.

    Well I will post a pic of the milk ( later) but have to say: a great drink and some positive work practices were observed. Tis a shame that others do not tale the time to practice what they often preach / advertise.

    Thanks K ... I enjoyed that coffee.

    [edit]I also passed on my thanks to the management of sexie coffie and got a prompt reply and that they had advised that staff that were on.. Great to hear... One day some of those staff will work elseware or start their own places... Maybe one of them might like to go and visit redzone in NZ

    PS... Can not get the pics of the crappy iPhone.. Maybe by Sunday... Mission critical tool that is not fit for tossing at even a window.[/edit]

    Leave a comment:


  • Thundergod
    replied
    Re: Another poor coffee shop

    Originally posted by 3921242431200B39353A6263540 link=1255131901/26#26 date=1256096191
    I wonder what percentage of losses will be given away to friends in the way of free food and drink?
    Exactly what I saw happening at the place I worked at for a few weeks.

    He had an excellent location but didnt take advantage of it.

    I went by some time later and it was closed and empty; still is.

    Leave a comment:


  • muppet_man67
    replied
    Re: Another poor coffee shop

    Originally posted by 1E6C6C2F2835323B5C0 link=1255131901/19#19 date=1256009296
    I love coffee.

    I also work in a cafe and am frustrated 99% of the time. Why?

    -I observe the principles of making coffee and noone else does.
    -Our coffee is locally roasted yet average.
    -My boss will give me a who do you think you are look if I suggest changing the grind.
    -No tamper is used, I bring my pullman into work whenever I can.
    -Staff that have no idea use the machine and I cringe when they do.
    -Grounds that have been in the grinder overnight will be used unless I throw them away (whilst the boss isnt looking).
    -Grind on demand, yeah right!
    -Staff have no idea of how to identify when an extraction is complete.
    -Staff pack coffee poorly and use built in tamper on grinder which is 3ml too small for baskets.
    -Decaf is pre-ground.
    I feel all that. I worked in a cafe exactly the same. The coffee was Illy and that was enough. At least we pulled shots by sight.

    -Decaf = pods in a regular single filter basket :P
    -Hopper and doser were often filled at the end of day ready for the next morning.
    -Never changed the grind, however is was roughly in the zone except for when the coffee was completely stale.
    -Plastic tamper about 3-4mm to small
    -double baskets on the small side imo
    -single baskets were allways underdosed resulting in cracked soggy channled pucks.

    Leave a comment:


  • muppet_man67
    replied
    Re: Another poor coffee shop

    Originally posted by 015E46505B505C555556565E525D330 link=1255131901/13#13 date=1255425129
    I got a call today from a friend of a couple of women who have purchased a failing cafe. Maybe I could assist with some consulting?

    The facts:[*]One is an economist[*]Neither has ever used an espresso machine[*]Neither has ever run a small business[*]Neither has ever worked with food[*]Neither has ever employed or managed a team of staff

    They figure that they can just use the existing machine and decidedly average coffee and make a few small changes in the first 6 months..Wanna form an orderly queue at the door CSers?

    Keep an eye out for a very cheap cafe for sale in about 8-12 months Id reckon :

    2mcm
    I wonder what percentage of losses will be given away to friends in the way of free food and drink? Sounds like lifestyle change with NFI. Im curious what they identified were the reasons the previous owners did not make money?

    Leave a comment:


  • blanyon
    replied
    Re: Another poor coffee shop

    Well you are well on your way, just jot down your notes and in no time you will be snobby enough to input ;D

    Leave a comment:


  • _moby_
    replied
    Re: Another poor coffee shop

    Originally posted by 1A3D2B3921520 link=1255131901/7#7 date=1255313908
    We have - its called the "Good Coffee Where?" threads... If its not on there, then dont bother but it needs to be added to as people see fit (and have enough post counts).
    Unfortunately no ability to input to those threads from those of us not up to the required number of posts yet.

    I visited Brisbane for work last week and used the info in “good coffee where” to find a couple of places to try near where I was staying, but can’t provide any feedback.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chuck
    replied
    Re: Another poor coffee shop

    Originally posted by 636D606F786E6F010 link=1255131901/1#1 date=1255134943
    I hear you brother although I tend to only try coffee shops when I am travelling. My wife hates being with me when I order she thinks it is mean.  
    Originally posted by 536E626A78010 link=1255131901/5#5 date=1255252601
    Ha!  This all makes me feel better because I am another hopeless optomist who persists in ordering coffee at airports and random coffee shops in the hope that they will be drinkable.  My wife always visibly grits her teeth with the "Why do you DO this to yourself" look.
    Same here, until I had a revelation... If your wife is with you - and like mine she has a lower threshold for bad coffee - order hers first and dont decide on yours until you take a sip.  

    Leave a comment:


  • melicious
    replied
    Re: Another poor coffee shop

    I feel ya boosting. Remember, youre trying to change a culture.

    Ive got a three-pronged attack going on.

    Educated customers give feedback to the bosses that good coffee is good and bad coffee is not worth paying for.

    then fellow staff are encouraged not thru love of coffee (cause theyre not all into it) but in pride of work (we have the a-team at work, and its a bit of a clique, but the sort of clique that newbies work hard to become a part of, cause were the cool kids and we sling a mean cup of joe, ya know)

    And finally through the management chain, who are pretty much about dollar lines, so I find ways to sell things.

    For instance I wanted a real tamper. Not the attached one. I started off saying it would improve the coffee and reduce wastage. Then I pointed out that you could move faster by having the tamper free so as one person doses they move out of the way and tamp up their end of the machine and make room for person #2 to get dosing and underway. Fellow staff supported me on it, cause they want to move free and fast in their work and congestion in coffee-corner is a problem.

    Then we got complaints from customers that theyd had weak coffees. Now I know it was probably from when a certain woman was on that never goes 2 shots into her mugs, because she can be quicker if theres only 1 shot into two mugs, but I turned this back to the tamper issue by pointing out that if we were tamping firmer with a properly fitting tamper we would produce richer shots.

    And whos encouraging customers to voice their concerns? Moi. And whos rallying the troops in the workplace? Me again. And who grabs the department heads ear, or the guy on the board, or the CEO, and just has a little impromptu chat? You get the idea. So from all three directions the culture starts to change so that good coffee is good business, way cool, and a sought after item delivered consistently.

    Not there yet but Ive been working on it since I started nearly 4 years ago and am finally seeing some progress. Now to get out of the bloody contract on the beans!

    Leave a comment:


  • PWade
    replied
    Re: Another poor coffee shop

    Also... i have a poor coffee shop that i went to...

    i arrive and should have followed my instincts and walked out... i ordered my coffee and watched the following process...

    she picked up a small metal pouring jug... and place an already old shot (didnt make me a new shot) into my takeaway cup...

    she then picked up, already steamed milk and reheated it... it was also a horrible milk heating sound, obviously didnt know what she was doing...

    poured it out and sprinkled chocolate on it...

    i walked out... tipped it out and drove to my work to get one from there...

    *sigh*

    Leave a comment:


  • PWade
    replied
    Re: Another poor coffee shop

    Originally posted by 46343477706D6A63040 link=1255131901/19#19 date=1256009296
    I love coffee.

    I also work in a cafe and am frustrated 99% of the time. Why?

    -I observe the principles of making coffee and noone else does.
    -Our coffee is locally roasted yet average.
    -My boss will give me a who do you think you are look if I suggest changing the grind.
    -No tamper is used, I bring my pullman into work whenever I can.
    -Staff that have no idea use the machine and I cringe when they do.
    -Grounds that have been in the grinder overnight will be used unless I throw them away (whilst the boss isnt looking).
    -Grind on demand, yeah right!
    -Staff have no idea of how to identify when an extraction is complete.
    -Staff pack coffee poorly and use built in tamper on grinder which is 3ml too small for baskets.
    -Decaf is pre-ground.

    Luckily, I have a great home setup and a desire to setup a roasting business at some stage. I also try to educate other staff but this fails because im not the boss.

    I feel for any other CS member who loves coffee yet works in a poor coffee quality environment.

    P.S The cafe/staff are great, but changes need to be made...

    that hurts to read that... definitely unfortunate... fortunately where i work, i have finally proven myself (to them... not to myself) that i have at least some knowledge (96% barista comp scoring... not championship material but at least competant... not to mention i do try to observe the whole espresso process)

    so no i have a little more control over it... that being said, our shop observes the espresso process properly, it just depends on who is on with the quality i guess..

    Leave a comment:

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