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  • Quick question need to prove someone wrong

    here is the thing,
    you never change your tamp well you shouldnt? right
    you only ever change the grind?

    this person mounds the filler up on a double basket with coffee and tamps it down. this is inconsistant because, now you have more coffee in the middle of the bisket and the water is going to flush/gush faster on the out sides rather then evenly over the whole bisket.

    im saying that you fill, nock to settle the coffee down incase you got pockets ect when filling, scrap of the excess "level", then tamp. and if your bisket is wet then you dont have enough coffee in it and depending on you pore you need to adjust your grind, or when you nock nock a little harder to get more coffee in the head. but not mound up because you bisket is now inconsistand, thats why we have naked group heads to prove this even further.

    this person is teaching some one and im saying they need to understand the art and Science behind coffee before venturing off doing someting that could "kill the been"

    responce please

  • #2
    Re: Quick question need to prove someone wrong

    not that simple grasshopper.
    depends on WAY too much to respond as to whos right here...
    world champ barista - no levelling, no distributing, just tamping...

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Quick question need to prove someone wrong

      Originally posted by 3A353F293E2C04333A2929322863635B0 link=1258883699/0#0 date=1258883699
      her is the thing,
      you never change you tamp well you shouldnt? right
      you only ever change the grind?
      Sorry Andrew, youre wrong. Your friend is right. You should check out Gwilym Davies performance at this years World Barista Comp.

      There are lots of variables when it comes to how to fill the basket and tamp. Try a few different ways and taste the result.

      Welcome to CS too!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Quick question need to prove someone wrong

        i will agree that coffee can still taste very good if even tamped as ruff as possable, the machines heat and pressure has a lot to do with it.

        but the distrabution of water and pressure required to obtaine and extract all the flavours and the caramlized sugers needs to be consistant and even between all the coffee. not different levels all over!!

        an uneven bisket will extract faster / slower in its areas of more and less coffee and take less of the good stuff you want

        this is what im trying to educate them in knowing how it works and understand first

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Quick question need to prove someone wrong

          Originally posted by 727D776176644C7B7261617A602B2B130 link=1258883699/3#3 date=1258888602
          i will agree that coffee can still taste very good if even tamped as ruff as possable, the machines heat and pressure has a lot to do with it.

          but the distrabution of water and pressure required to obtaine and extract all the flavours and the caramlized sugers needs to be consistant and even between all the coffee. not different levels all over!!

          an uneven bisket will extract faster / slower in its areas of more and less coffee and take less of the good stuff you want

          this is what im trying to educate them in knowing how it works and understand first
          You making assumptions as to teh physics involved.....

          Thus the reason why there is so much on CS and other sites as to dosing and tamping..

          You say uneven... But why do you say that it is uneven ?

          Tamping is there to even out the compression... Grind and clumping needs to be managed, PF baskets are of different shapes etc...

          Thus the reason one inspects and breaks pucks apart and the main reason Naked groups are so popular... It actually allows you to see the impact of the tamp and channelling.

          The Heat of the machine and the water can be managed via electronics and mechanical control and only has a min impact on much of what goes in teh cup.. Assuming the values are in the ball park.. Most are, even on cheep systems.

          The variables are the;
          BEANS
          Grind size
          Dosing Level
          TAMP method
          TAMP pressure

          Every one is variable and each one causes a ripple effect...

          Then there is the issue of flat / convex or concave shower screens....

          I grind fine, mound, tap, add more coffee, smaller mound, Tamp using a nutating method and may be only 5 to 8 kg at best...

          On some of my machines I have to make a high mound as due to dosing I only have 1 or 2 mm clearance... Other machines you can level and tamp as you might be 6 or 8 mm below the top of the PF Basket...

          So as he says
          Originally posted by 617C787D7676130 link=1258883699/1#1 date=1258884111
          not that simple grasshopper.
          depends on WAY too much to respond as to whos right here...
          So true...

          Originally posted by 727D776176644C7B7261617A602B2B130 link=1258883699/0#0 date=1258883699
          if your bisket is wet then you dont have enough coffee in it
          = Not always.. Other factors at play...


          While I understand your intent... Many people make too many assumptions and or general statements that are wrong or miss leading due to the lack of data..

          That is why 2 + 2 = 5

          Or 2 onions, 1 Cream and a bottle of brandy = Diane sauce ;D : NOT...

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Quick question need to prove someone wrong

            Hey, whats that???  Taking my name in vain, again AM!

            Agree with all of the above - if you mound and do an even tamp downwards, it would leve it off by the weight of the tamp.  Have you ever seen a bricklayer put cement between bricks, tap, level off, put more cement on, then put the bricks together...no?   Same theory, I would say...

            Personally I grind, tap, grind, level and then tamp, but thats just the way I do it.  Also a lot of wasted grinds sometimes but as long as my coffees taste great (and Im roasting my own beans, so can afford a bit of wastage), then Im on the right track.

            Cheers
            Coffee2Di(anne Sauce)4!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Quick question need to prove someone wrong

              Originally posted by 2B0C1A0810630 link=1258883699/5#5 date=1258938812
              Cheers
              Coffee2Di(anne Sauce)4!
              So Pete likes a bit of saucy stuff at times... AM... Stop it...  How did the show go ?

              BOT.

              It should also not; be about "need to prove someone wrong"  :-?

              It should be more about learning to understand that there are many ways to skin a cat... And that we can all learn something new, if we allow our minds to be open; rather than closed and fanatically about  rules, when the process is so dynamic.

              AM

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Quick question need to prove someone wrong

                my response is to try his technique with a naked portafilter. That way you will be able to observe the effect it has rather then accusing someone of doing it wrong. I have seen baristas who I respect distribute their coffee this way and it has tasted fine. My personal preference is to level off but this is also because it helps me get a consistent dose.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Quick question need to prove someone wrong

                  A lot OT: AM - it went great, but was a loooooong day: arrived at the first concert at 10.00am and didnt get home until 12.30am! Both Em and I did extremely well and my adult classs dance got a resounding ovation (and a fair few woof whilstles, too, I might add!) each time. 8-)

                  Sorry all - back to your regularly scheduled program...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Quick question need to prove someone wrong

                    Originally posted by 4A6D7B6971020 link=1258883699/8#8 date=1258975398
                    and a fair few woof whilstles
                    Freudian slip? Wolf? ;D ;D


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Quick question need to prove someone wrong

                      I would say that as long as your technique is consistent and makes consistently great coffee then thats the main thing but bearing in mind that each establishment (and individual) probably follows a similar but different process

                      if I have my eye in I can grind to order, collapse my dose on the forks on the grinder, then tamp once with my HB tamper (which has a corrugated finish to help distribute the grind and for even water extraction) - then brush off excess grind and away you go - no polish required!

                      but this doesnt always work and I dont always have my eye in - but I will say that in a workplace environment the more ergonomic your technique the less strain you are putting your body under - so I try and simplify my technique as much as possible without compromising the end result

                      make sense?

                      P

                      Comment

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