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  • #31
    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Personally I cannot stand cane sugar in coffee. To the point that during a stage where I needed to use soy milk in my milky coffees, I had to always ask cafes which soy they used and keep moving on until I found one that used soy without cane sugar.

    As per comments above, I have always understood there is also people who cannot stand not having cane sugar in their coffee.

    As for the phenomenon of piling sugar into a bad coffee to make it better, Id rather cut my losses and chuck it.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Sugar in coffee!

      Originally posted by 78444D5540210 link=1259145482/13#13 date=1259194256
      Danny Luca and Bass, the assumption you are making is that people who add sugar or milk

      A.... Are using poor quality beans.

      B.... Dont know how to pull a decent shot

      C....Dont appreciate quality coffee and would not know a good shot from a bulls roar.

      You dont allow for or fail to appreciate the fact that palates vary,

      ...

      Guess what Im saying is, crusade all you want, in the end people will drink their coffee exactly the way they want to.
      No, actually the reason why I used the expressions "I suspect", "a lot of people" and "many people" was precisely to allow for the different personal tastes that people have. I prefaced my final sentence with an acknowledgement that "different people will have different sensitivities to bitterness and sweetness and will want to treat it differently" and in any case, my final sentence wasnt a universal statement of fact; it was clearly expressed as a suspicion that I think applies to many (but not all) people and it was not a value judgment. So I dont see how you can seriously state that I "dont allow for or fail to appreciate the fact that palates vary".

      In response to your three numbered points above, your allegation that I assume that people who add milk and sugar "Dont appreciate quality coffee and would not know a good shot from a bulls roar" is inconsistent with my reference to a "coffee journey", which implies appreciation and exploration. Your statement that I assume that people who add milk and sugar are using poor quality beans and/or pulling shots badly isnt a far fetched inference from what I wrote, but it could only apply to the "most" or "lots" of people to whom I referred. I think that if you look at all of the coffee extracted as espresso in Australia, its a fair assumption that "most" or "lots" could be made sweeter and less bitter.

      After all that, I think that its pretty far fetched to call what I wrote "crusading" ... particularly when it was posted on a site called CoffeeSNOBS!

      In the context of this discussion, Im saying that I think that people should be aware that coffee of different quality exists and I suggest (but do not demand or insist) that people that feel that bitterness and a lack of sweetness are the dominant characteristics of coffee will be interested in trying different coffees in the hope of discovering something better. This is the case regardless of how people want to consume it (which is, of course, up to them).

      Cheers,
      Luca

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Sugar in coffee!

        I always drank my coffee with sugar until I got my own espresso machine. I was continuing to put sugar into the coffee for a while but found myself gradually tapering off as it somehow seemed to be masking the true flavour of the coffee. One day I just stopped the sugar and now I never use sugar in the coffee I make at home. At cafes I try the coffee first and decide whether it needs sugar and how much. I will use sugar if it is too bitter or too sour. If I have a milk based coffee I will usually put some sugar in as for me, the milk turns it into a totally different type of drink. I dont mind if my guests put sugar in my home produced milk-based coffees as long as they really enjoy it. Having said that, I dont make coffee at home for people who drink huge takeaway cups of McDonalds coffee - they get instant.

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        • #34
          Re: Sugar in coffee!

          Originally posted by 4F727E76641D0 link=1259145482/32#32 date=1259238152
          I always drank my coffee with sugar until I got my own espresso machine.
          Same here.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Sugar in coffee!

            Actually I was just trying to be funny....I usually have a good laugh with my guests about this ...I dont take my latte art that seriously Wink
            haha... yeah dw i dont actually have an emotional reaction to people doing it, am just shocked that people would destroy it and not gratefully and delicately take it apart piece by piece, and observe its delicate, lovely, beautiful smooth texture... XD

            ...well actually I thought this forum was for people who have a life and would also like to have interesting discussions about coffee Smiley
            Yes, were on this forum to discuss this passion of ours, it is a part of our life

            So... If a sugar makes a bad coffee drinkable and a not so great coffee good, wouldnt it make a great coffee even better?

            Undecided
            Hmm, i think sugar masks coffee into tasting sweeter, and covers up the essence of the coffee. Once again, NOTHING wrong with that at all, to each their own. It doesnt make it an evil drink.. it is simply like trentski said, it is a completely different drink in a way.

            In the context of this discussion, Im saying that I think that people should be aware that coffee of different quality exists and I suggest (but do not demand or insist) that people that feel that bitterness and a lack of sweetness are the dominant characteristics of coffee will be interested in trying different coffees in the hope of discovering something better. This is the case regardless of how people want to consume it (which is, of course, up to them).
            Totally 100% agree. Im certainly not saying that anyone is wrong. But i would like to present and explore the facts. Were discussing quality coffee, and all facets of quality coffee. We can all run our lives as we want, and arent arguing that we SHOULD be drinking something in a certain way.
            Some may say that adding milk to coffee makes it a completely different drink. There are a certain amount of drinks that can be called a "coffee", would one then say that ANY drink with a shot of espresso or even a trace of coffee is called a "coffee"? hmmm...

            I guess in terms of true coffee exploration and insight would it be safe to say that ONLY short black and ristretto exploration is needed? i wouldnt say it is... but it really gets down to pure coffee in its essence... I can certainly taste when different coffee beans are being used when drinking milk-based espresso (hot not cold drinks at this point...).. i guess that leads to the question of what is "coffee"... another topic..

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Sugar in coffee!

              I started into the coffee thing 10 months ago... And still do not understand what people means with "a well preparated coffee is sweet"

              SWEET??

              Sweet like what? Like a peach juice? Like a coke? Like a chocolate beverage? or is """sweet""" because is not bitter?

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              • #37
                Re: Sugar in coffee!

                Sweet like adding sugar.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Sugar in coffee!

                  Originally posted by 2F342F2E400 link=1259145482/35#35 date=1259239324
                  SWEET??

                  Sweet like what? Like a peach juice? Like a coke? Like a chocolate beverage? or is """sweet""" because is not bitter?
                  Excellent question Oton.... 8-)

                  Now, for the answers... ;D

                  Mal.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Sugar in coffee!

                    This is an interesting thread aint it? sugar and coffee almost like discussing politics and religion, certainly gets people fired up.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Sugar in coffee!

                      Originally posted by 607B60610F0 link=1259145482/35#35 date=1259239324
                      I started into the coffee thing 10 months ago... And still do not understand what people means with "a well preparated coffee is sweet"

                      SWEET??

                      Sweet like what? Like a peach juice? Like a coke? Like a chocolate beverage? or is """sweet""" because is not bitter?
                      I was thinking about how to answer and found it was not easy to put into words. Like many I used to drink coffee with sugar, which from my point of view was not in search of a sweet beverage such as peach juice but rather to deal with the otherwise bitter taste. I am sure there are various reasons why people add sugar and also different perceptions of sweetness. I have certainly found that well steamed milk is actually sweet ...ie it is as if there is a spoon of sugar in my coffee.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Sugar in coffee!

                        Originally posted by 776C7776180 link=1259145482/35#35 date=1259239324
                        I started into the coffee thing 10 months ago... And still do not understand what people means with "a well preparated coffee is sweet"

                        SWEET??

                        Sweet like what? Like a peach juice? Like a coke? Like a chocolate beverage? or is """sweet""" because is not bitter?
                        Great question and, perhaps unusually, one that is capable of a straight answer. The minimum cutoff for sweetness in the SCAA grading system is equivalent to the sweetness in a solution of about 10 grams per litre. Coffee that is less sweet than this when cupped is unlikely to meet the SCAA cutoff for specialty coffee. Thats off the top of my head, so Ill have to check the figure, but its a good strength to taste to give you a frame of reference.

                        Cheers,
                        Luca

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Sugar in coffee!

                          Originally posted by 49524948260 link=1259145482/35#35 date=1259239324
                          I started into the coffee thing 10 months ago... And still do not understand what people means with "a well preparated coffee is sweet"

                          SWEET??

                          Sweet like what? Like a peach juice? Like a coke? Like a chocolate beverage? or is """sweet""" because is not bitter?

                          I think our western palates with over-sugared drinks, sweets, chocolate, cakes, even burger buns has shifted our consideration of what is sweet.

                          I remember taking my 1 year old daughter to America a few years back, every baby cereal we tried was extremely, over the top sweet compared to what we were used to back in Australia (ok, so I grew up on weetbix, but you get my point, right?). If Americans were to try our baby cereals. Even the sugared ones, Im sure theyd proclaim them as bland, simply because their palates in general are used to even sweeter things than an Australian palate.

                          Theres varying scales of sweetness. Coffee can be sweet without sugar, but not what most people would consider sweet. Simply because all their other foods have sweetner added.

                          Milk, when properly steamed adds sweetness. The Lactose in milk is a sugar, and when warmed to 65 degrees, is more soluble, giving even more sweetness to a cup of coffee. Nothing wrong with someone putting sugar in to their coffee, but most people do it by default, without ever having been served a well made coffee and trying it first.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Sugar in coffee!

                            The use of sugar in my case could well be that my passion for coffee was ignited over 40 years ago by a Lebanese family serving me, what else, Lebanese coffee with cardamon, needless to say loaded with sugar, I drank Lebanese/Turkish/Greek coffee at home for quite a few years, then I discovered espresso, my sugar use dropped off dramatically but desire for a small amount of sugar remains to this day.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Sugar in coffee!

                              Interesting side note to this discussion on sugar. If youre in Melbourne, go check out Market Lane in Prahran Markets. Theyve got single origin unrefined sugar from Costa Rica on the tables.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Sugar in coffee!

                                Originally posted by 292B272F2F21263B480 link=1259145482/43#43 date=1259270283
                                Interesting side note to this discussion on sugar. If youre in Melbourne, go check out Market Lane in Prahran Markets. Theyve got single origin unrefined sugar from Costa Rica on the tables.
                                SHG or not?

                                Comment

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