Calibrate Grind Settings on a Cold Machine

[fancypants]

Can a cold machine be used to calibrate the grind setting for a particular bean?

Say I know Im going to be in a hurry one morning but have a new bag of beans on the bench so wont be able to pull a couple of trial shots then. Would I be able to run a couple of shots through a cold machine the night before to get the theoretically correct setting (i.e. xx ml in xx seconds)?

[hazchem]

Re: Calibrate Grind Settings on a Cold Machine

Would I be able to run a couple of shots through a cold machine the night before to get the theoretically correct setting

If youve got time the night before to make start dialling in the new beans, why not do it with a hot machine? I doubt youd be able to dial in a new blend or single origin accurately without bringing your machine up to temp first.

[topshot]

Re: Calibrate Grind Settings on a Cold Machine

I cant see why not, you wouldnt be far off the mark.
The resistance of the tamped coffee to hot or cold water  will be the same

Warren.

[fancypants]

Re: Calibrate Grind Settings on a Cold Machine

If youve got time the night before to make start dialling in the new beans, why not do it with a hot machine?

Yeah, its pretty much a hypothetical question so I wouldnt bog down in the details too much. I was in the kitchen before and I was thinking that I could take the opportunity to sort out my grind but couldnt be arsed waiting for the machine to warm up.

The question was more about whether temperature affects extraction times or only extraction flavour.

The resistance of the tamped coffee to hot or cold water  will be the same

Cheers for the response.

[maheel]

Re: Calibrate Grind Settings on a Cold Machine

The resistance of the tamped coffee to hot or cold water  will be the same

Although i have NFI about any scientific reason, i reckon the hot water would effect extraction enough to need to "dial in again" in the morning.

I would have thought viscosity (and expansion of puck) of the extraction is going to be way different and thats going to effect your grind, IMO you will be grinding to fine in cold water for when you heat it up.

set you alarm for 10 mins earlier to ensure you can pull a few extra shots......

if you do a "cold" grind set up let us know how it goes i am interested int the findings.

taste them for us too please

Leeham

[hazchem]

Re: Calibrate Grind Settings on a Cold Machine

taste them for us too please  

thats where I think the kicker is. You might get close in times with a cold machine but it isnt going to taste right at all.

[Thundergod]

Re: Calibrate Grind Settings on a Cold Machine

I cant see why not, you wouldnt be far off the mark.
The resistance of the tamped coffee to hot or cold water  will be the same

Warren.

That makes sense to me reading it Warren BUT....

My machine is on a timer and on more than one occasion Ive tried to get away with pulling a shot before the machine is back up to full operating temp and it doesnt look right when it pours.

IIRC the pours were "runny" not "dripping".
This despite the fact that the e61 head was still fairly hot before switching back on.

[Javaphile]

Re: Calibrate Grind Settings on a Cold Machine

Doing a pull with a cold machine will not yield the same extraction profile as with a properly warmed up machine. The grinds will not absorb the water as fast/as completely as they do with hot water. Not to mention that the grind setting will most likely change over night anyways due to environmental factors.


Java "Extractions R Us" phile

[>SupremeRoasters]

Re: Calibrate Grind Settings on a Cold Machine

Id say not and prior trails of dailing in a grind with a machine warming (read: not fully up to temp) have proven unsecesfull to dail in the first grind of the day.

I know of somewhere that always has a bit of coffee on hand.. next time your around lets test it and document! Wont even be at fault this time if the machine isnt turned on. ;D

[fancypants]

Re: Calibrate Grind Settings on a Cold Machine

next time your around lets test it and document! Wont even be at fault this time if the machine isnt turned on.  ;D

Sounds like an offer I cant refuse; will see you later in the week and report results back to the forum in due course.

[fancypants]

Re: Calibrate Grind Settings on a Cold Machine

So I took Roger up on his kind offer some time ago but have not yet reported the results.

Bottom line: unless the machine is heated to its proper operating temperature, you can infer nothing with regards to grind settings. Javaphile was spot on.

We tested on a cold machine for a given grind and the water gushed through the puck with the resulting brew resembling dishwater. Ill apologise, neither Roger nor I were game to try the shot.

So my inference here is that even if youre almost at proper temperature, the grind setting will differ from when youre at proper temperature.

I could be wrong, but this could also explain my experiences with the second shot of the day running a little slower than the first with all components brough up to temp by the first shots brew water.

Anyway, it was certainly fun experimenting.