Extraction time

[doubleespresso]

Hi everyone

Apologies in advance for this very newbie question.

I have been told that a rule of thumb is to set up my grinder and dose appropriately so that I can pour 30 or 60mls (depending on single or double basket) in 30 seconds.

(I always use a double basket as I find it much easier to get the right dose than with the single basket. Ive got a 3 year old Silvia and Rocky combo using the standard group handle, baskets and tamp that came with it. I usually drink double espressos

I need to ask some very beginner questions:

- When do I start timing the 30 seconds? I always assumed it was from when liquid started entering the cup, but I overheard that the 30 seconds begins from the time the brew button is pressed. Help!

- I also hear that it should take 5-10 seconds for the liquid to start appearing after I hit the brew button. At the moment I would say this takes me about 3 secs. I activate the brew button for about 2 secs before I attach the group handle/basket in order to get the water flowing and remove some steam).

- Finally, I hear that the puck should be springy and not too wet or dry afterward. After my pour the puck is very wet - lately I am getting a ~1mm layer of water on top of the puck that wont drain through.

From all of this can I guess that my grind is too fine and that I am pouring for too long?

Yes, my coffee is not too sweet right now

Appreciated,
D.E.M.

[A_M]

Re: Extraction time

Hi everyone

Apologies in advance for this very newbie question.

I have been told that a rule of thumb is to set up my grinder and dose appropriately so that I can pour 30 or 60mls (depending on single or double basket) in 30 seconds.

(I always use a double basket as I find it much easier to get the right dose than with the single basket. Ive got a 3 year old Silvia and Rocky combo using the standard group handle, baskets and tamp that came with it. I usually drink double espressos

I need to ask some very beginner questions:

- When do I start timing the 30 seconds? I always assumed it was from when liquid started entering the cup, but I overheard that the 30 seconds begins from the time the brew button is pressed. Help!

- I also hear that it should take 5-10 seconds for the liquid to start appearing after I hit the brew button. At the moment I would say this takes me about 3 secs. I activate the brew button for about 2 secs before I attach the group handle/basket in order to get the water flowing and remove some steam).

- Finally, I hear that the puck should be springy and not too wet or dry afterward. After my pour the puck is very wet - lately I am getting a ~1mm layer of water on top of the puck that wont drain through.

From all of this can I guess that my grind is too fine and that I am pouring for too long?

Yes, my coffee is not too sweet right now

Appreciated,
D.E.M.

You have answered ya own questions ;D see highlights.

Do not get hung up on the numbers.. Its whats in the cup that counts.

[CannonsJS]

Re: Extraction time

Your grind is probably pretty close to the mark, but you are under-dosing a bit.  If you dose properly your puck will expand to the height of the shower screen and you wont get the soggy puck with 1mm of water on top.  Id suggest doing the 5c peice test people mention on here.

[j0nesd0g]

Re: Extraction time

 Id suggest doing the 5c peice test people mention on here.

Can anyone provide a little more information on this test? TIA

[JJJ]

Re: Extraction time

Can anyone provide a little more information on this test? TIA

1) Fill your basket as you normally do and tamp
2) Place a 5c coin on top of the tamped coffee
3) Put your group handle into the machine as usual
4) Remove the group handle
5) Inspect your coffee

If youve dosed the appropriate amount you should see a slight indentation from the coin on the coffee.
If youve got no indentation youre underdosing, if the coin makes too much of an indentation (or you cant fit the group handle into the head) youre overdosing.

[Bullitt]

Re: Extraction time

In addition to the info on the 5 cent test, as most Silvias have a screw or bolt head in the centre of the shower screen,
dose till you can see a good impression of the screw/bolt head, but not so much that you have difficulty putting the group handle into the group head.

- I time my pours from when I push the brew button,
- Many suggest that 6-8 seconds before you see the start of the pour is good,
- The difference in pour time from one step on Rocky to the next can be around 15 seconds, so the 6-8 seconds might vary from 4 or 5 to 10 or so depending on the beans, ambient temperature and relative humidity, etc.

[tasadam]

Re: Extraction time

- The difference in pour time from one step on Rocky to the next can be around 15 seconds,

Wow! I must test this some day. Im liking the beans Ive currently got way too much to waste a heap on testing this, but I must do it.
Or maybe I shouldnt, for fear of that dreaded disease, "upgraditis", most painful in the hip pocket region, also affects the WAF depending on size (wife approval factor)...  
I am very happy with my shots & pour time tho.

[j0nesd0g]

Re: Extraction time

great thanks for that guys. I will give that a go!

[Dimal]

Re: Extraction time

The difference in pour time from one step on Rocky to the next can be around 15 seconds

Wow!

Never experienced this degree of step change with my Rocky D/L... It regularly moved the extraction time by about 7-8 seconds for the same dose. I guess if youre noticing this amount of change, it would be a good argument to try the Tape Mod or the PVC Tube Mod for stepless operation...... :-?

Mal.

[Mike_Tapp]

Re: Extraction time

Hi I have had my Silvia for a week and am getting inconsistent shots, I expected this at the beginning. One thing has surprised me is that my shots are nowhere near 30ml in 20-25 secs. It is all happening much faster. I did some tests. I started with a just used puck. I got 200ml of "water" in 20 secs. Then some more. With a group handle and no coffee 175ml in 20 secs , no group handle 190ml in 20 secs. It seems to me to be pumping too quickly does it not ??

Thanks

[A_M]

Re: Extraction time

Hi I have had my Silvia for a week and am getting inconsistent shots, I expected this at the beginning. One thing has surprised me is that my shots are nowhere near 30ml in 20-25 secs. It is all happening much faster. I did some tests. I started with a just used puck. I got 200ml of "water" in 20 secs. Then some more. With a group handle and no coffee 175ml in 20 secs , no group handle 190ml in 20 secs. It seems to me to be pumping too quickly does it not ??

Thanks

No....

More likely ya Beans / Grinder and Tamp are causing the issue....

[scarey]

Re: Extraction time

no group handle 190ml in 20 secs

Thats the correct free flow - I was originally told ~90ml in 10 sec but search CS for "ulka flow rate", somebody posted manufacturers specs of flow vs pressure http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1143118905/90#90- it was nominally 600ml/minute at 0 bar.

AM has listed the prime suspects.

[Shotgun]

Re: Extraction time

I find it strange about the 30 sec extraction time. I dont know why or how but I find if my extraction is too fast, the resultant coffee is terrible.

If however my extraction is slow and begins with a drip drip drip, Ive found that I can extract for a minute or so for my 60 (ish) mls and the resultant coffee usually tastes quite OK. I dont understand why, but it just seems to be.

[Luke_G]

Re: Extraction time

If your pouring more than about 30 mls in 20 seconds then its going to be more on the sour side and lacking body and mouth feel. This is a similar effect to an extraction thats not hot enough.

if your pouring 20mls in 30 seconds then you venture into overextracted areas. Here you will find such tastes as burnt rubber and black toast and an aftertaste that needs rinsing from your pallet. The same sort of tastes you would find with a machine thats runnig too hot.

Of course this is all dependant on basket size and temps..tamping and so on...

Each to their own of course

[blanyon]

Re: Extraction time

I have tasted some shots which I have thought was going to be badly over extracted but they have been ok, totally depends on machine setup, your techniqe, basket size and taste buds. As they say its whats in the cup that counts.