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  • #16
    Re: Coffee Vans

    I dont know that a coffee forum is the best place for specific advice about generators! You migh want to try some of the camper van forums in google groups.

    Good luck, Robusto

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Coffee Vans

      Originally posted by robman link=1143370964/0#14 date=1143700238
      Is there a particular brand of generators that are extra quiet.

      Sorry about all the questions, although the forums are great for getting answers.

      regards Rob
      Hi Rob,

      Try this site for size..... http://www.cmca.net.au/markets/marke...generators.htm. Bound to be a business listed here who could help you out with good application and acquisition advice ,

      Cheers,
      Mal.

      P.S.
      Also,
      Considering the likely duty cycle of such an installation, I would steer clear of Petrol Engine power options, Diesel is far more preferable both from the point of view longevity in service, and economy of operation. I know it has been recommended by a couple of people to run a fuel feed line from your vehicles main fuel tank to save the effort of filling two different tanks but if your van is petrol powered, then I wouldnt go down this route.

      Youll most likely receive this sort of advice from reputable retailers or outfitters anyway but just thought I would add my $0.02 worth. There are some pretty good quality Australian Made or Assembled units around too that are very competitively priced, so dont be wooed into having to go with fully imported units, we do a pretty good job too ;D.

      Comment


      • #18
        coffee vans and power

        id just like to inform people of the factual consumption rates in the average coffee vans

        a typical van set up consisting of the following items

        coffeee machine single element   app 1500 watts
        fridge app 300 watts
        grinder app 250 watts
        pie warmer  app 1250 to 2000 watts
        blender app 200 watts
        total consumption at 50 cycle is about 2200 watts at 240 volts

        if u were to try and run this from a inverter batterry set up total battery ammparage at 24 volts needs to be at least 800 amps
        this would equate to at least 8 hours usage time and would require at least 10 hours recharge time from ur house hold power point

        heers and good luck hope this info helps

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: electrical power consumption

          What about Starting Amperage for the motors, would not that significantly raise the power consumption at times, ?..
          Im thinking if for example the fridge kicks in while you are running the pump and reach over to grind another dose, not altogether that impossible in a Coffee Van..
          Should one have a Hard Start/Capacitor start modification made to the Fridge and Coffee Machine ?
          Tepin

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: electrical power consumption

            hey great question

            and yes ur correct it does have an over all effect on consumption
            although i must say it is minimal as in compressed or inducted motor does require anything upto 7 times its continous running power to start ie a fridge motor on start up may draw upto 5000watts r more

            firstly this has been taken into account by the cyclic usage periods and also good inverters will provide a surge capacity of upto 2 or 3 times there nominated continous output wattage

            ie a 3000 watt sign wave inverter can surge to 6000 watts for a split second with out causing any difficulty to the system
            in our experience we have used two 3ooo watt inverter charger set ups very successfully

            this allows for any surge requirments and offers some head room should the operator plug additional equipment in

            hope this answers that question and cmon guys u must have harder questions than that lol

            happy to help

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Coffee Vans






              CoffeeSnob

              Posts: 10
              incorrect info # 2
              « on: Today at 12:44 » ok let me make it easier and clearer

              a typical coffee van set up would consist of the following

              1 coffeee machine with either a smaller element installed or one element disconected app 1200 - 1500 watts at 240 volts

              2 coffee grinder app 200 - 250 watts at 240 volts

              3 fridge app 200 - 300 watts when runnin and app 2500 3000 watts on start up at 240 volts

              4 pie warmer app 1250 - 1500 watts at 240 volts

              5 blender app 200 watts at 240 volts

              now u have to do the maths t work out ur cyclic usage rate

              cyclic usage rate will to soke degree be affected by ambient temps

              ie in winter obviosly the coffee machine and pie warmer will come on more feqeuntly in winter than summer

              ut as a usable figure 50 % cycle duty would be very acceptable and very close as a basic all round figure

              meaning that for every 1 hour that the pie warmer is running it may only actually be drwing power from ur system for half an hour

              same goes with ur coffee machine

              and same goes with ur fridge

              so the formula should be relativly easy to work with now


              if ur system is a total of 4000 watts combined power consumption it is acceptabe to understand that is not its cyclic duty rate there for ur power consumption in reality is half that ur rating figures

              but u still need a inverter cabable of producing the total power usage when all the equipment is running at the same time
              ie pie warmer comes on for a few mins and the cffee machine comes on at the same time now the fridge starts and u use the grinder to grind fresh coffee ,,,

              keep in mind that once the fridge and the coffee machine and the pie warmer have hit there required temps they cycle on and off hence 50 % duty cycle

              having said this i base it on the coffee vans i have seen and the equipent in them ,,,,,this of course may vary slightly with differing set ups but there would not be a huge varient

              ask me more lol
              please test my knowledge and my answers

              as i see information that is incorrect i will endeavor to post about it and explain why it s incorrect
              Back to top

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              • #22
                Re: electrical power consumption

                Been down that road before Powerman Used my ex Bosses airless Paint Sprayer ran at 16 amps but killed most 32 amp breakers (Dynamite Brand Sprayer) ..
                Tepin
                Soft Starters are the GO..
                Tepin

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: electrical power consumption

                  Ive tried to go down that road --- but mention soft-starters to many Australian manufacturers and they dont know what youre talking about.  

                  I wanted one for a small air conditioner so I could start it  and run it off my boat generator.... The manufacturers who do make and sell them were asking more for the soft starter than the cost of the air conditioner.  Circa $400-plus from memory.

                  Robusto

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: electrical power consumption

                    Powerman may be able to help on this but from memory "it aint Zinc Dust and Sulphur-AKA Rocket Science". The less said about that 3 k high Launch the Better..
                    Tepin

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: coffee vans and power

                      other posts and threads have now been combined in this thread

                      We request that all comments be kept to this one thread now.....

                      2mcm

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Coffee Vans

                        Looked into the Inverter solution recently, to do it properly you would need something like 24 batteries weighing 30 kg each and costing around $500 each. There is a mob in Sydney who are trying to build these vans using 12 batteries but apparently this will give you only 3-4 hours if you use the batteries properly, if you try to get say 6 hours out of them they will last around 14 working months, then youre up for a new set of $6000 batteries.
                        Im sticking with my trusty gennie.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Coffee Vans

                          Powerman
                          In your experience using 2 3000W inverters, how many batteries (or rather what is the total ampere hour capacity) supply the average 2200W per hour and how many hours do the operators run per day ?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by robusto View Post
                            There are also eutectic fridges, in which a compressor freezes liquid in the insulation. The frozen liquid absorbs heat from the food and drinks until it thaws and then the compressor comes into play again.

                            We are more than happy with our 3-way fridge: 240v, 12V, and LPG. It uses around 100 grams of gas a day, if that, so a 3 kg bottle lasts and lasts.

                            But getting back to coffee machines where theres no mains power. The biggest power consumption by far is for heating. There should be some machine where pre-heated water (from the LPG stove) can be dumped into it. The next requirement for power is for the pump. Well, thats a trifling draw of .02 amps for the 25-seconds pull (3 amps in one hour). And a lever method would obviate the need for a pump anyway.

                            Perhaps those camping accessory shops should move up a notch in class and come up with such a machine for us who like our coffee take-away.

                            Robusto
                            As the 12 litre water tank requires much current to heat I have thought about having the hot water on the roof by solar possibly heated by gas assisted by solar feed into the coffee machine by tap no motor. What do you think?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by robusto View Post
                              Must be one hell of a battery! A machine running at, say, 2400 watts, would draw 200 amps. And thats just for one hour.

                              Even with a domestic machine at half that wattage, youd be looking at a one hundred amp draw.

                              (figures rounded for convenience, as a 12 V battery is actually a shade over 13V)
                              Robusto
                              What is the minimum inverter generator as required as in kva to run a duel unit coffee machine? I would guess that it is around 3500 watts / 15 20 amps. There are some cheap inverter generators 4 Kva around $ 800? I would guess a bit small @ 3200 wts with no room for fire-up. I know there are other units such as grinders / fridge etc. But I just need to know what is needed for the coffee machine only. I could change the element to 10 amps if that would make a big difference and fire up the 12 ltr hot water by gas. Need advise from members.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I looked into a franchise van a few years back - it came completely set up and ready for use. I just went and looked at the business plan - a Wega 2 group (don't know what the quality of it might be as haven't heard of them but the coffee was pretty good) a mini mazzer, fridges, blender, filtered water tank, and a generator to power it all. I stood beside one of the vans and couldn't hear the generator at all. Seemed a good deal - 10 year warranty on the van, fully paid for up front so no ongoing franchise fees - they sell you the stock so make their money that way.

                                I can't imagine trying to set a van up to use battery/inverter etc. The petrol costs would be prohibitive carrying the weight around.

                                We wish we had gone ahead with it now - came to Bendigo instead chasing computer work and the State Govt cut the contracts about 6 months in... le sigh...

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