Experiment with stale coffee.

[Yelta]

Collected all of the spilled ground coffee from the grinder tray over the past week or so, this morning I weighed out 19 grams of the stuff and pulled a shot with it, the result? well, not as bad as you would imagine.
On a scale of 1 to 10 I would give my average shot with freshly ground beans a score of about 8 to 9, the stale coffee scored about a 4, drinkable (just) bearing in mind Ive been served coffee that scored well below this in commercial establishments and paid $3.50 a cup for the stuff.
So, I hear you ask, what does all this prove? well, it proves that freshly ground is by far the best option (we all knew that) but makes you wonder what the establishments that serve up this sh*t coffee do to sink to such a low point, I guess its a combination of stale coffee, cheap beans and poor technique (I suppose we all knew that as well)

[Thundergod]

Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

The place I worked at used the grinds from the tray.
But to be fair it was only that days grinds. :

[Yelta]

Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

But to be fair it was only that days grinds.

Ahhh, well, thats ok then.

[mum2three]

Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

Ive seen my local cafe grinding the beans of an afternoon. Enough for the whole next day and then some... :-X I asked why and they said it takes too long. I guess you wouldnt want to sacrifice time for something like quality or taste!

[A_M]

Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

Ive seen my local cafe grinding the beans of an afternoon.  Enough for the whole next day and then some... :-X I asked why and they said it takes too long.  I guess you wouldnt want to sacrifice time for something like quality or taste!

Ya... But it is worse when they do it Friday afternoon and open next Monday ;D

[Fresh_Coffee]

Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

Hello Jon,

you may not realise, but there are a significant number of clients that like and want the taste of stale coffee.

They dont necessarily know that what they like is the character of "staleness"....nevertheless that is what they like.

In that case however, it is better to age the beans under good storage conditions and still grind on demand, rather than use old grinds.

mum2three: many cafe people still think that way, but coffee education is slowly creeping up...


Regardz,
Attilio
VFCSSS (very first CS site sponsor).

[Yelta]

Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

you may not realise, but there are a significant number of clients that like and want the taste of stale coffee.

Seriously! your right, I had no idea.
If thats the case I would imagine they would have far less trouble getting a cuppa to their liking than us (so called) Snobs.
Maybe their Yanks or French.  :

[Thundergod]

Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

Ive seen my local cafe grinding the beans of an afternoon.Enough for the whole next day and then some... I asked why and they said it takes too long.

Funny that. Unless Einstein was wrong, I think it takes just as long no matter when they do it.

[denki]

Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

what cafe is that? just so we all know never to go there

[Fresh_Coffee]

Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

Jon,

thank you for leading us to an extremely meaningful / useful discussion (whether you realised or not at first )

I was talking aged beans.....but dont forget all the usual "wet"coffee making rules apply......

CoffeeSnobs Coffee Appreciation A01:

Which cuppa tastes better, the one using stale beans but made well, or the one using fresh beans but made badly?  Espresso Machine Operator properly understands application of grinder, dose and tamp irrespective, or does not?

Some time back I recommended to the CS community they try robusta and see what they really think, instead of only regurgitating what theyve read elsewhere ( "robusta bad, arabica good" yeah yeah) without having tested the water (so to speak) to make a properly informed judgement.

I was happy to see some did and I think some good came from it eg, would you rather a 100% arabica blend using low grade arabica, or a blend that intelligently uses some  better quality robusta......or would you just rather the wet coffee is good, and who cares whats in it anyway if it tastes good?

I would like to suggest the same again....try putting some beans aside, storing properly, and keeping them say 12 weeks. Open and try each week for the 12 weeks, make both espresso, as well as milk coffee because you should not forget that our coffee culture is based on milk not black coffee, and that is what most clients buy.

Take notes and see what your own palate tells you over the period.

If you want to understand better "what gives" in the market (rather than just from a CS point of view), use beans that you think are more likely to be used in a commercial situation (eg no point using a blend with a high proportion of one of the mochas, because the character that gives to a blend would not necessarily go well in a cafe situation and may age very very badly).

Make sure you have enough beans for wastage as you will have to keep resetting the grinder to work out where the "sweet spot" is each time you go back to those beans.

In the words of one very experienced roaster who once (when I was trying to get him to give me his opinion on something), kept answering me with ......

........"You ty....".

Regardz,
Attilio.
VFCSSS (very first CS site sponsor).

PS:
TG, yes to your post above, and note that (their perception of) speed of operation VS the quality of their brews, usually do not compute together. Someone that employs that line of thinking (that speed is good because we are sooooooo busy) usually doesnt know about the other important stuff either, starting with how to manage the grinder and get it in synch with beans & machine being used.

Its the same old story, look at the cliche that "with espresso, less is more". This can be expanded easily to "with espresso, more speed means less quality".

[Yelta]

Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

thank you for leading us to an extremely meaningful / useful discussion (whether you realised or not at first Wink)

I thought it was a subject worthy of discussion given that much of the repartee here centres on clichés about stale beans and ground coffee.

[Fresh_Coffee]

Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

Yes Jon, a lot of members (insert apology here for being straight up) need to stop regurgitating the stuff theyve "researched" on the net without having any real experience, and if they really are interested in Coffee Appreciation, should do the homework themselves and form opinions based on their own reality instead of someone elses.

Regardz,
A.  

Going off line now to go out and play...its sunday....already had my coffee...it was good....(good beans and well made)....and my hobby calls. Coffee and machines are my life, so I need a different hobby to refresh.

[Thundergod]

Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

try putting some beans aside, storing properly, and keeping them say 12 weeks

Ive done this to the 6 week mark and didnt like what I tasted.

However, I will say that it was drinkable* and in my opinion would not have been as offensive to most as it was to me, because many, as already stated, are used to stale coffee being served to them.

*If Id been served this in a cafe I wouldnt return.

[Yelta]

Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

I need a different hobby to refresh.

And the hobby is?

[Fresh_Coffee]

Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

Good for you TG youve done it and made up your own mind.

I respect that.

And everyone is an individual and one persons opinion is not necessarily the same as the next persons. Same thing in both coffee and wine. You can argue about perceived quality all you like, but it will never stop someone loving their lambrusco, while someone else loves the latest Jimmy Watson trophy winner.

Im not calling it one way or another, just putting it out there that people should think carefully before regurgitating their "research" round and round in these sites particularly when it has no basis in their own experience.

Jon, thanks for your interest...it will go off line.

Regardz,
A.