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  • #31
    Re: How not to use your coffee maker

    ^My bad... :-[

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    • #32
      Re: How not to use your coffee maker

      Originally posted by scoota gal link=1145109525/30#30 date=1145606755
      ^My bad... :-[
      I forgive you :-)

      But if you go here http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/default.asp and then select the actual story, you can watch it all again.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: How not to use your coffee maker

        What a great delight i have awoken the dead as it were. No offense ment I can assure you but Doppler you take the prize. This is exactly what im on about. We go out have a nice evening and sometimes end it with a nice coffee. Then thinking coffee we go shopping and then see an expresso machine. So, being human we think if i buy one of these ill be able to enjoy more great coffee at home without the expense.

        How wrong can we be and hence my opening bitch re the lack of "instruction."

        Now today i learn that another collegue who had 3 machines, a Black and Decker, a Delonghi and a Breville. The Breville has just been tossed into the bin. You see this guy just installed a new kitchen and his wife thought that the grotty machine was the worst one and this wasnt going to clutter her new kitchen so come bin day out it went!

        You can imajine the dialogue that went back and forth between these two carnt you? He survived.

        Again this same friend complained about the brew cycle and suggested that perhaps we should "play." So we meet Monday to sort out whats what etc.

        So what made me jump into roasting. Well I asked the question and this is the reply I recieved.

        Hello Rob - answer is yes freshly roasted does have an
        edge, you can taste sweetness as post roasting means oxygenation which is bad for coffee - oxygen kills coffee, so any time lag between roasting and brewing means bitterness will appear, so roast, grind and drink ASAP is best.

        Isnt this the essence of truth?

        So Im off to discover the joys of roasting. Yesterday i ordered an I Mex from Vitali. For $140 they are shipping an I Mex Roaster and 600grams of 6 - 100gram sample lots plus postage! can you believe that.

        Now I sit and watch for the postman. Toward the end of next week i hope.

        So what made be go for the IMex? Well this site contains a number of posts re roasting and theres a fair number refering to the use of poppers. Alas mine went in the last garage sale. Then thinking about the process got me looking at a cross sectional drawing of the I Mex. Yes it said to me you are an over grown popper. But it was made of material that can handle heat unlike most poppers. So the price is now in the right bracket and the offer was good to, so i ordered it.

        More to come as i unfold the depths of roasting. If you want to read a good write up on the coffee business go see Coast Coffee on the net.
        here they grow their own beans, import beans, roast beans, grind coffee,sell coffee, run a coffee shop what more is there?

        Here is what he is sending:
        Coffee beans..how about 100grm bags of Kenyan, Costa Rican, PNG, Indian, Indonesian and Columbian, 6 x 100grms for $10 for you to try out.

        So more fun along the way, ive passed the TinMan but the Lion is catching up!

        Do I have a ginder asks Jugi? Yes i most certainly do as control at this end is where it is at as far as i am concerned. I grind fresh for every cup, well not quite some days when i have to please my daughter I grid our needs all at once. I Have a Delonghi KG 100. E Bay job and paid too much for it but then I didnt pay full retail either and so.

        After a through clean and some very minor adjustments it now gives me a good grind that suits my process. I have researched into the home market grinders and the write ups on the new Sunbeam EMO480 give it a good wrap. So a few weeks ago i ordered one from Hardly Normal for $155 suggested retail is $199. However no stock till mid May they say. And so i wait.

        Its a good job my wife is not computer literate all she sees is my expanding laboratory out on our front vehandah! No room in the kitchen. In our next house the kitchen will be the biggest room in the house. And you though it would be the garage. No there will not be a garage as such just a great big shed where upon I can eat sleep drink lots of coffee and entertain without all the usual hasels.

        Im having fun now how about you? Had a good brew today?

        You have kept me up way past my bed time so its a good night from me.
        H [smiley=cool.gif] [smiley=cool.gif] [smiley=cool.gif]ave fun
        kulaityman



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        • #34
          Re: How not to use your coffee maker

          Originally posted by Kualityman link=1145109525/30#32 date=1145630272
          So a few weeks ago i ordered one from Hardly Normal for $155 suggested retail is $199. However no stock till mid May they say. And so i wait.
          If your tired of waiting for Harvey, grab another $20 and go pick yourself one up now at Myers or Good Guys. Have seen plenty of stock in my travels at these places last couple weeks.

          PS: this thread is proving to be an enjoyable read over last week or so...

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: How not to use your coffee maker

            Originally posted by Kualityman link=1145109525/30#32 date=1145630272
            ... oxygen kills coffee, so any time lag between roasting and brewing means bitterness will appear, so roast, grind and drink ASAP is best.
            Most here would probably agree that generally you should allow 24hrs, preferably 1-3 days, for the roasted beans to degass CO2 before consuming.

            http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1144124994
            http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1142038777

            I try to roast three days ahead where I can. But Ive been known to grind-and-brew the next morning when running low ;D

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: How not to use your coffee maker

              WOW never in my wildest dreams did I think that coffee would have so many tales to tell.

              Thank you lochness for the advice on the EMO480 but I have done the deal through a union shopper so now I wait. No problem as the KG100 does such a good job. But thanks for the info.

              Yep I have spent a lot of time and I mean a lot of time reading up in the roasting posts here at CS. Some mighty good stuff there.

              So please tell me I have this right?
              1. I roast the beans
              2. I cool them as quick as possible
              3. I package them in a vented enclosure for 24 hours
              4. I then seal the packages
              5. Grind as required

              What i have found a little confusing is that the Guy at Coast Coffee describes the cooling process and even advocates the addition of a water spray.

              Now this guy is in business and his business would not prosper if he got it wrong now would it?

              My thinking is that if we cool the beans, in order to preserve the time of roast, (critical mass if you like) then moisture is likely to be absorbed into the bean is it not? Just how critical is this cooling period? Theres a lot of you out there using collanders and i guess the real answer is to do the same thing each time one roasts and hence gain consistancy.

              So if i time my roast to any given point and from that moment i cool in a collander and the period in the collander should be until when, I can safely handle them or what???

              Can anyone advise me as to what temperature the bean would be considered cooled? The easy answer here is ambient temp but this will depend on the nature of the bean. The rapid cooling is to preserve the required taste is it not?

              Next month I am up that way and intend to call in and have a coffee or 2 and glean some info and some beans.

              Thinking this issue through it would be good to have a cold air blower would it not? Do such things exist or is this something else I must invent? Again avoiding condensation would to me be the main aim.

              The collander cooling method. Has anyone ever placed the SS colander in the fridge prior to using it to cool the beans? If so did you have any problems with condensation as the Queenland climate tends to be high with humidity and hence most things taken out of the fridge show condensate quickly.

              The journey along the coffee brick road is interesting and the enjoyment of drinking the source of ones creation is without doubt very satisfying.

              In the begining of time it took me many attemps and lots of sugar and i man lots of sugar before I mastered the process. Time taken to make a brew has gone from something like 20minutes, I kid you not consider all the preparation, to no more than 3 to 4 minutes depending on how hot I have the milk. Cappuccinos are my go or else a long latte.

              My goal is to remove the sugar from my drink and to date have gone from 3 large teaspoonfulls of raw sugar to just one. Yes i have a very large mug. I find that as the coffee mellows that the sugar is not necessary. So to understand the brewing process is critical to acheiving much pleasure later.

              Talking of mugs the SS Sunbeam is a real pain when it comes to making a brew as one has to use small containers to catch the essence and then transfer this to ones drinking utensil. I have bought from Aldi a set (2) cappuccino SS cups that now serve my purpose but then they make for more washing up.

              The plastic Sunbean has greater height and hence one can get a bigger cup under it.

              Frothing milk is another issue with these machines as the steam spout is also in the wrong spot. It should come out more so that one can get the jug under it and move the jug around until full then upon removal there is sufficient space to withdraw the jug without spilling.

              The plastic machine is slightly better as it has more height. I guess a modification is required, either extend the existing tube or add a flexible tube just worried about burning my fingers!

              Finally what is the best chocolate to use for dusting? I see from one supplier that he sells a grater for grating actual chocolate. Im currently using Cadburys drinking chocolate, with rice added. Any suggestions.

              Heres one to set the sparks flying how does one become a qualified Barista, home or otherwise? Are there courses? If so who and where?

              Wops im in trouble the old lady has just asked "What are you, doing the lawn needs mowing." Thats a statement of fact but a coffee first and then another aferwards. Shes off to a Tupperware party need i say more!!! Coffee storage containers?

              My best advice is dont be afraid to experiment with your machine the more you understand it the better your brew will be. Do the wine thing make a brew taste it and spit it out until you find the perfect process for your coffee.

              Ive just turn the machine on great anticipation before having to mow the lawn.

              have fun
              kualityman

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: How not to use your coffee maker

                Just watched the ACA video. What a load of cods wallop. Sams? comments at the end say it all. He states that he was supprised that the low end machines can make an equally as good cup as at the top end.

                Now buying the $2,000 machine does not mean you will make great coffee. It means that it has the greatest potential to make a great coffee given the degree of control over the process.

                "Given that it gives a greater control over the process." is the thing to remember. Hey but first someone has to advise what that process is and what the variables are. Otherwise expect to get just mud.

                Like Sam said the cheap machines were surprising and that is because being so called experts in the art of coffee making he knows how to operate the machine to get the best out of it.

                Think bulldozer. Think driving it. The book of words says push this button and the engine will start hey thats great. Then pull this leaver and it will move off. Ok so you mastered the controls good well done. But all this doesnt mean that you can operate a buldozer now does it? How to layout a footy field all perfectly flat? Do they tell this in the manual?

                So making a good coffee is having the time to understand the whole process know how to operate your machine to match the criteria for producing good coffee and hey presto youre off your head with a caffin overdose.

                Machines ready and so is the lawn.

                Have fun and thanks Anger Management for the URL. I wish i was the reporter! [smiley=evil.gif] [smiley=evil.gif] [smiley=evil.gif]

                kualityman

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: How not to use your coffee maker

                  Yeah- an "interesting" piece....MY CG reply consisted of:

                  "The poor performance of the superautos was no surprise....I guess if you expect to get espresso nirvana on the press of a button, youre somewhat naive. When judged using the criteria they used,  the outcomes for the machines tested were reasonable.

                  Its probably not a big jump to interpret the whole segment as a well-placed Sunbeam Advertorial. With the bucket baskets in the Basset spec. Sunbeam, youd want to get a pretty good espresso. I dont believe it was fair for Paul to be a judge in this case- given that he designed the machine. One wonders what size the baskets on the minore were??

                  The bottom line is that a well used HX or Minore for that matter is likely to kick sunbeam butt on consistency, performance and ultimate espresso quality- but at a cost $$$$- and without using a bucket load of coffee. As for the 10 sec superauto shots from 5g of coarse ground coffee, well what would you expect? And the perception of "value"? I reckon thats all in the eye of the beholder....

                  Can an owner clarify what Sunbeams "5 year commercial warranty" actually means.....Does a service man visit your home the same day to replace any worn or broken bits???? Hmmm.... "

                  It seems that the Sunbeam is clearly a very good machine- albeit witht he inherent compromises of the thermoblock system. As we all appreciate, quality training will foster an understanding of espresso chemistry and an appreciation for consistency and cleanliness- which will lead to the best possible performance out of any machine....



                  Chris

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: How not to use your coffee maker

                    Well stated Chris. I have to agree with you please remember im a green bean but I have an enquiring mind and Im not seeking perfection only an acceptable result and that result doesnt have to be to anyone elses liking.

                    My journey has shown that armed with the right knowledge i can indeed make myself a nice mellow brew that i enjoy. All the hype about this machine being better than that machine doesnt cut it with me. One cannot reach utopia and really there is no need to go this far. You just need to be able to enjoy what you create. Is the ultimate a GOD SHOT?

                    I can see some mods to my portafilter coming up, like turning it naked.

                    As you state Chris;
                    " As we all appreciate, quality training will foster an understanding of espresso chemistry and an appreciation for consistency and cleanliness- which will lead to the best possible performance out of any machine.... "

                    Im with you on this one.

                    And so as they say cleanliness is next to Godliness does this mean im close at getting a GOD SHOT?

                    Id like to think so.
                    Just finished the lawn and now to that send brew.
                    Have fun
                    kualityman

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: How not to use your coffee maker

                      Originally posted by Kualityman link=1145109525/30#36 date=1145677624
                      Just watched the ACA video. What a load of cods wallop. Sams? comments at the end say it all. He states that he was supprised that the low end machines can make an equally as good cup as at the top end.

                      Now buying the $2,000 machine does not mean you will make great coffee. It means that it has the greatest potential to make a great coffee given the degree of control over the process.

                      "Given that it gives a greater control over the process." is the thing to remember. Hey but first someone has to advise what that process is and what the variables are.
                      I made the comment earlier on this thread that domestic machines will never be commercial machines. The Expobar from what I could see did appear to be a commercial grade machine that was made into a domestic size. Looks may be decieving and I many be incorrect.

                      The variables in this case is the pressure that the coffee is exracted under. I would define a domestic machine as those sold at department stores like Krupps, Saeco, Sunbeam, etc, etc. (correct me here someone if I am wrong (2MCM?)) and they cannot exract coffee under the same pressure as a commercial machine. I wold imagine this is where the expen$e comes in for dearer domestic machines in most cases, not counting over pricing or show pony machines.

                      As for the cooling cycle many people advocate at times using a water mister or similar to cool the beans, but the trick is not to over do it. Ambiant air temp probably has the most to do with it. I prefer not to use water, Im a bit paranoid about water on my beans prior to brew. I instead prefer colander + fan. Refer attached pic. Simple and effective, I can leave it to cool while I do other stuff which is usually roasting more beans. By the time the next roast is done, beans are cool. I only roast in small batches of around 150gr to 200gr at the most so my small fan and colander are sufficent.

                      Also Kualityman the only re-occuring problem I have seen from domestic machines (yes they do produce ok coffee despite my preferance for plungers!) is when they are not de-scaled regularly. If they are not de-scaled regulary it will generally lead to a clogged up boiler, which will then break down. Read a broken down boiler as the heart of the machine and most expen$ive part to replace/fix. The next step for most at this stage is a new machine.

                      Also do not (as my dear old mum : did with her Saeco she won in a comp) leave it on ALL the time so its "ready" for a brew whenever reuired. Its not required. This apparently leads to a broken termostat, which luckily Saeco saw as a faulty part and replaced without hassle. Whew! I cannot believe I am her son sometimes........


                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: How not to use your coffee maker

                        Originally posted by Jugi link=1145109525/30#39 date=1145688384
                        I made the comment earlier on this thread that domestic machines will never be commercial machines. The Expobar from what I could see did appear to be a commercial grade machine that was made into a domestic size. Looks may be decieving and I many be incorrect.

                        The variables in this case is the pressure that the coffee is exracted under. I would define a domestic machine as those sold at department stores like Krupps, Saeco, Sunbeam, etc, etc. (correct me here someone if I am wrong (2MCM?)) and they cannot exract coffee under the same pressure as a commercial machine. I wold imagine this is where the expen$e comes in for dearer domestic machines in most cases, not counting over pricing or show pony machines.

                        As for the cooling cycle many people advocate at times using a water mister or similar to cool the beans, but the trick is not to over do it. Ambiant air temp probably has the most to do with it. I prefer not to use water, Im a bit paranoid about water on my beans prior to brew. I instead prefer colander + fan. Refer attached pic. Simple and effective, I can leave it to cool while I do other stuff which is usually roasting more beans. By the time the next roast is done, beans are cool. I only roast in small batches of around 150gr to 200gr at the most so my small fan and colander are sufficent.

                        Also Kualityman the only re-occuring problem I have seen from domestic machines (yes they do produce ok coffee despite my preferance for plungers!) is when they are not de-scaled regularly. If they are not de-scaled regulary it will generally lead to a clogged up boiler, which will then break down. Read a broken down boiler as the heart of the machine and  most expen$ive part to replace/fix. The next step for most at this stage is a new machine.

                        Also do not (as my dear old mum  : did with her Saeco she won in a comp) leave it on ALL the time so its "ready" for a brew whenever reuired. Its not required. This apparently leads to a broken termostat, which luckily Saeco saw as a faulty part and replaced without hassle. Whew! I cannot believe I am her son sometimes........
                        In response- many/most have a vibe pump- theyre pretty much all the same. In fact the issue with many domestic machines is that pump pressure is not limited to 8 or 9 bar- which most experts believe is ideal.

                        "Domestic" covers a spectrum of over 2.5k....It includes low end department store brands as well as high-end HX and dual boiler machines.

                        I think you may find that the "cooling cycle" you refer to is a cooling flush- most commonly used to flush the group of the machine and bring it to operating temperature. Misting of freshly roasted beans is a completely different concept and I dont believe that it has particular relevance to this discussion.

                        Scale can be an issue in areas with hard warter- leading to premature failure/breakdown of machines. This is why many CSers and others choose to use either a water softener in their machine tank or some other method of softening water- e.g a jug or in-line tap filter....

                        2mcm

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: How not to use your coffee maker

                          So we have identified the variables and to some extent have come to understand them. The posts following this subject have revealed there is imence wealth of knowledge out there.

                          2muchcoffee, the cooling I am refering to is the cool down after a roast and not with the actual machine. You are absolutely right about boiler scale and particulary at high temperatures it can be the very devil. You see way back early in life I was a Marine Engineer and hence familiar with engines boilers and the like.

                          It has indeed occured to me that to maximize the life of any unit one should ensure that it is fed with pure water. Boilers clog up and overheat if left uncleaned and of course they become inefficient. So descaling should be part of everyones regular maintenance routine.

                          So come on some of you must have gone down the water preperation road with filters and reverse osmosis units, are they really worth the trouble of maintenance and upkeep? What would you recommend and why?

                          Jugi, I love your novel cooling aid if that works for you it can most certainly work for me. Your batch size would be about the same for me so keeping it simple is a great way to go.

                          Thank you now to await the postman

                          Have fun...I have had too many cups today!!
                          Kualityman

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: How not to use your coffee maker

                            Originally posted by Kualityman link=1145109525/30#35 date=1145675369
                            Finally what is the best chocolate to use for dusting? I see from one supplier that he sells a grater for grating actual chocolate. Im currently using Cadburys drinking chocolate, with rice added. Any suggestions.
                            Where I work buys chocolate from the same supplier as the coffee. But it looks just like Cadbury drinking chocolate powder to me.

                            Originally posted by Kualityman link=1145109525/30#35 date=1145675369
                            Heres one to set the sparks flying how does one become a qualified Barista, home or otherwise? Are there courses? If so who and where?
                            There are courses for becoming a Barista. I guess I should preempt any other replies here and say that the site sponsors are some that run courses. Though I dont know if they are in Queensland.

                            If you google "Barista Training" for Australia you will be impressed (like I was) with the amount of places that do training of some sort or another. I guess the cafe industry is becoming a huge place!


                            On completely different topic (well still about coffee! ;D) compliments are coming from all directions at work over the standard of coffee that is now being served up (thanks to yours truly! No, I dont have tickets! :P) One that came from a prominent regular local yesterday was "Have you changed the coffee beans?" I just gave her a smile and said "No, weve changed the coffee maker!"

                            Even the boss is saying "Before we sold s**t coffee, now we sell great coffee!"

                            All is good.

                            Oh, 2mcm, I asked a friend who has that twin thermoblock Sunbeam (sorry cant remember the number designation! :-[) last night about the so called "5 year commercial warranty". He was a bit surprised and said that as far as he knew it was a one year replacement warranty and a 5 year replacement warranty on the pump. Does that make sense?

                            Another thing I have heard about the Sunbeams and this may be discussed elsewhere, so excuse me if I am repeating anything...Apparently someone has said that they do have very strong pumps and that you can put them under pretty tough pressure (well, I know that we certainly do! You should hear it sometimes! ) And if you dont have any problems with them in the first twelve months, then you probably never will.

                            Anyway... Im off to find a new Sunbeam grinder too!

                            Enjoy your Sunday coffee, Kualityman!!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: How not to use your coffee maker

                              [QUOTE=scoota gal link=1145109525/30#42 date=1145745841]
                              Originally posted by Kualityman link=1145109525/30#35 date=1145675369
                              <snip>
                              Oh, 2mcm, I asked a friend who has that twin thermoblock Sunbeam (sorry cant remember the number designation! :-[) last night about the so called "5 year commercial warranty". He was a bit surprised and said that as far as he knew it was a one year replacement warranty and a 5 year replacement warranty on the pump. Does that make sense?
                              Hmm...thought it sounded like PB was blowing it out of his a$$....Sure looked like he was making it up in the segment ;D

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: How not to use your coffee maker

                                Hi Scoota gal,
                                Thanks for the info and you being in the trade an all. You are the epitamy of this thread. You see armed with the right knowledge you are now producing QUALITY COFFEE.

                                The word quality here refers to the fact that what you make is acceptable to both Boss and Customer.

                                What I mean by this is that both sides of the busines win by your attention to the process. I can feel the job satisfaction you are getting especially when the boss says you now make great coffee.

                                Well done a fantastic achievement.

                                You see I am a Quality Manager in the real world and strive to teach business how to float the bottom line and keep it on the up and up. This is a very hard thing to accomplish in the real world as most managers are not open to suggestion I have found. They know it all as it were.

                                The old adage "the customer is aways right" is right even if they are completely wrong!

                                For many this is a very hard lesson. How to treat the evil customer, now thats a whole web site in itself. I am also a partner in a business so I indeed practice what i preach. I hasten to add that its not the coffee business but it is a store.

                                You have taken the time out to find out more about your skill and trade than the first lesson of how to use your coffee machine. There is no doubt as WOMM comes into play you will see an increase in trade.

                                Hence you are sustaining the business bottom line.

                                The thinking used to get you to where you are should now be applied to every other aspect of the business. Then watch it grow. This is where I have the most fun when working with a CEO or business owner. Yes I also know that some scribes here run training schools and the like and if your boss has any sense he should fund you into the next level or levels. This is what i call getting the most out of the employee such that they love their job and the business loves having them. Truely a win win situation.

                                What I am advocating here is the gaining of knowledge and here we refer to the process of making a coffee that excites a customer and even the Boss. You can only improve on this by increasing the number of coffees served and because of WOMM you should see this.

                                I frequent a coffee shop locally as i know each and every time I have a coffee there I get the same great standard of service and the product is entirely to my liking. Hence I go back again and again. The money doesnt bother me because i am getting a service more than i am paying for. This in turn leads to great business success.

                                You are then the epitamy of this success.

                                Because of my new found knowledge, thanks Anger Management, and to those who have contributed to this thread, I am now very critical of poping into any old coffee shop to get a coffee. I can even tell what they are doing wrong, and yes i do complain when its not to my liking. Nicely of course. But what this means is that I tend to have a favourite coffee haunt and only one or 2 at best.

                                What this means for those businesses is that they have gained a customer for life and I in turn bring my friends to the same coffee shop. They in turn are delighted with the service and so on and so on.

                                In the early days in Quality we would use the example of buying a coffee and getting a chocolate or biscuit as a freeby extra. We would refer to this as exciting quality a bribe to get you to come back. Now of course everyone does this in some shape or form so its not exciting anymore. It has become expected. Now comes the test how to maintain this degree of excitiment?

                                Well we should learn that the bribe is only necessary when the product is inferior. If I make great coffee then over time the world will get to know and my business will grow.

                                You have done well scoot gal and your story is a great one.

                                So anyone selling home espresso machines should indeed know how to make a great coffee from it and be able to demonstrate this to the customer. It doesnt matter what that machine is. Time spent edcuating the customer has its own WOMM.

                                On a busy day in the shop I spent 20 minutes with a customer who in the end bought nothing. They got the benefit of my knowledge. Back then to a busy shop floor. So ten days later this same cistomer comes into the store and spent $800 and was there for only 10 minutes.

                                Never in my wildest dreams did I think creating a thread about coffee would reveal such a great success story.

                                Well done scoota gal.

                                Yes I have just enjoyed a nice coffee and made one for my daughter also. She licks her lips and I say no, one is all you get.

                                Scoota gal you made my day.

                                Thank you
                                kulaityman [smiley=kiss.gif] [smiley=kiss.gif] [smiley=kiss.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]

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