What is RISTRETTO? (in general practice)

[chalermchait]

Hi,

As a newbie, I normally follows the instruction of pulling 30ml over 25-30sec for a good ESPRESSO.

Now, for RISTRETTO, from some definition: 25ml in 30-35 sec, Finer grind to slow down the flow 25-30 sec to get 20-25ml......

RISTRETTO = over extracted espresso :-?

What is the best pratice to get delicious Ristretto?

Thanks,
C.

[blanyon]

Re: What is RISTRETTO? (in general practice)

There are two schools of thought, one as you have described above and the second is to pull the shot short ie 20mls in around 20-25 sec. I follow the second method as I pull my espresso shots tighter than normal and I find that the 20ml in 20 sec is to my tastes.

[GregWormald]

Re: What is RISTRETTO? (in general practice)

RISTRETTO = over extracted espresso  

WRONG.
Ristretto = restricted (usually either in time to get less quantity, or just referring to quantity, implying a finer grind)

Try both, see what you like.

Greg

[beanflying]

Re: What is RISTRETTO? (in general practice)

Should be titled how misused is the term "Ristretto"

A Ristretto in the classical meaning is A LOT different to what has become known as a "Ristretto" as to what tastes the best by playing with dose, grind tamp and shot time etc that is the bit to play with but call it something else.

Have a read of this recent thread and the Wiki link too
http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1271734890
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ristretto

As to what I do for a short shot sink the first few seconds of the extraction and the last bit as the shot tails off on the lever machines. So the middle bit for me of a "normal" shot for me and my gear is the bit I like best but it is not a Ristretto..

[GregWormald]

Re: What is RISTRETTO? (in general practice)

Hi bf,

I note that the Wiki entry on ristretto is currently under discussion, both about the actual definition and the origin.

Have you any authoritative sources, or are they all buried in time?

I also read a lot about restricting the shot by increasing the tamp pressure, but this seems to do almost nothing on my machine.

Greg

[chalermchait]

Re: What is RISTRETTO? (in general practice)

Thanks for all advices,

In my sense, if pump pressure is fixed (like modern pumped machine), then Ristretto of 20ml in 25-30 sec seems like overextracted espresso.

However, if brew pressure can be varied (using lever machine), with finer grind and lower pressure to take longer time to brew 20ml than normal espresso, then this makes more sense to me ie. Ristretto is NOT overextracted espresso BUT to allow more contact time between water and coffee grind during brewing process.

Do I understand correctly?

C.

[depecid]

Re: What is RISTRETTO? (in general practice)

I was taught it simply meant you grind and tamp as per normal but stop the shot short so as to get the sweeter first portion of the shot...?

[rjo89]

Re: What is RISTRETTO? (in general practice)

I was taught it simply meant you grind and tamp as per normal but stop the shot short so as to get the sweeter first portion of the shot...?

Thats what I thought it was too :-?

[WSullivan]

Re: What is RISTRETTO? (in general practice)

I always thought that the true ristretto shot was prepared in a true lever machine, the rest of us are just imitations, will the real slim shady please stand up, please stand up.......

The way i, prepare "MY" version is to do what BF said, grab the middle of the normal shot, the middle 7-10 seconds, get some great choc/caramels out of it!

[beanflying]

Re: What is RISTRETTO? (in general practice)

they all buried in time?

Yep sort of

Espresso is straightforward and well defined even to the point of a specification for what is is worth http://www.espressoitaliano.org/doc/...g%20-%20LQ.pdf

From there is gets muddied when you start talking about Ristretto (short or restricted shot) or Lungo (long or high volume shot). The classic Ristretto is actually a full shot volume from the lever but the time is shortened or restricted and not the volume such as the modern version which has become restricted volume and as such is really not a Ristretto at all.

To muddy it further the modern version has several methods of preparation along with some commercial realities if you ask for one at a cafe that doesnt make all shots that way.

Commercially very few if any shops will adjust a grinder to make one "Ristretto" drink then wind it back again so what you will get is just a short timed shot from a standard grind in most cases or maybe a heavily tamped puck with a time closer to the 25-30 second mark. As I mentioned above I choose the middle pour method for this from a full shot volume rather than fuss around with grind and tamp. Apart from being guided by my tastes this chart below lays it out fairly well as to what results are likely.



Back to making modern Ristrettos for home users and Coffeesnobs

One modern Ristretto method is where the operator has made a finer grind that results in a slower extraction or a lower resulting volume but still in the 25-30 second range is the more common. To my taste this can tend to accentuate the high notes but it has less body than I like.

So for me the middle pour will do as it is what I like

[shawty]

Re: What is RISTRETTO? (in general practice)

The classic Ristretto is actually a full shot volume from the lever but the time is shortened

Sounds like an under extraction or gusher to me???

[beanflying]

Re: What is RISTRETTO? (in general practice)

Sounds like an under extraction or gusher to me???

Sorry but Wrong it was made on a Lever machine with no 3 way valve so the pressure is controlled by the user so if anything it will be a shot run at a consistently higher pressure than a normal spring lever shot which starts high then tapers over the course of the shot.

My understanding of the traditional Ristretto version is that the Barista helps the shot run quicker by pushing on the lever with the spring which will keep the pressure higher on the puck and for a given grind and tamp the shot will run faster hence restricted time or Ristretto. Volume is a constant and fixed by the Piston size. My supposition is that what was happening is that the pressure profile was flatter and more like a pump machine instead of like a spring lever?

[shawty]

Re: What is RISTRETTO? (in general practice)

Volume is a constant and fixed by the Piston size

So there is no way of making a restricted shot volume on a lever machine?

[A_M]

Re: What is RISTRETTO? (in general practice)

Volume is a constant and fixed by the Piston size

So there is no way of making a restricted shot volume on a lever machine?

YES... There is...

A: Remove teh cup at the point you wish, and

B: Keep the action going and the rest just gets dumped...

[shawty]

Re: What is RISTRETTO? (in general practice)

Volume is a constant and fixed by the Piston size

So there is no way of making a restricted shot volume on a lever machine?

YES... There is...

A:  Remove teh cup at the point you wish, and

B:  Keep the action going and the rest just gets dumped...

Yeah, I thought of that.
Im just not sold on the idea of a restricted shot meaning the time is restricted not the volume.