Speciality Coffee????

[Ronin]

After buying a bag of brown to get me through till the weekend when we are off to Melbourne & not noticing they dated the beans I asked when they were roasted, and was told "Cristmas Eve so beans are good to go now". Perfect.

Upon further inspection when I arrived home, the bag was dated, not with the roast date but the purchase date. WTF? Thats no good for someone claiming to be speciality coffee, and not the only place in Brisbane that it happens either.

Dissapointing.

[Fresh_Coffee]

Re: Speciality Coffee????

Not really.

Why not take them on face value and accept their advice that the coffee was roasted on such and such a day especially if it is good and does not show any signs of classic staling? Presumably you were at the roasters and not some resellers place so they should know what they are talking about. Theyve advised when it was roasted...that should be as good as their word and any sticker thay might have put on the bag.

The date of sale is a good tool. It allows you to "remember" when you bought the beans, and the business to know when their leg is being pulled if a client returns coffee saying there is something wrong with it.......many weeks or months after the date of purchase! It happens! OR....for a small roasterie that has good control of its stock, a "sold on" will still lead it to work back well enough to know if there is a REAL quality issue if you subsequently take the coffee back (rather than just an age issue).

Either way, why wouldnt you trust the roaster to tell you the truth and if not, who says a "roasted on" sticker is any more "truthful"?

In addition to any positives they may have, "Roasted on" stickers are also open to misinterpretation and "abuse" by clients, depending on the clients opinion of what constitutes an acceptable age for the coffee, which is usually influenced by what theyve been reading and whos opinion they accept or believe.  

The whole lot is just a can of worms, food for thought and academic discussion but of no real consequence in the end as the coffee is either fresh or not, and its either good or not when properly ground, brewed and drunk.

Just some thoughts  from the other side of the roasting machine.

Regardz,
Attilio
very first CS site sponsor

Ps another thought from this side of the roasting machine:
Its not "specialty coffee"! Every roaster has access to all the different types of coffee. It is up to the roasters what coffees they choose to deal in, the type of business they want to run, ad the type of image they want to portray.

Ergo....there are commodity coffee roasters and SPECIALTY coffee ROASTERS.  The word specialty refers to the roaster not the coffee.  

Other opinions?

[Ronin]

Re: Speciality Coffee????

As usual, you make some good points Attilio.

I was at the roastery and I do take them at their word as it was the roaster I was talking to. And yes its tasty.

I am just dissapointed that if I didnt ask the roast date I wouldnt know & I believe the purchase date is not useful to me (I understand from their point of view tho)

Ergo....there are commodity coffee roasters and SPECIALTY coffee ROASTERS.The word specialty refers to the roaster not the coffee.

Both advertise themselves an Speciality Coffee Roasters and have employees/workers that know the importance of the roast date.

[Thundergod]

Re: Speciality Coffee????

Other opinions?

I see little benefit in a "sold on" date unless its in addition to the "roasted on" date for reasons as suggested in your example above of a return.

In which case its for the retailers benefit not the customers.

Isnt there an idea out there that you give the customer what they want?
If enough people ask for "roasted on" dates hopefully well get them.

[GrahamK]

Re: Speciality Coffee????

A genuine "Use By" date predicated by the Roast Date/Type of bean/Roast etc and the Roasters knowledge and experience would be good. (e.g. Expiry for whole beans 3weeks or so after roasting).

However playing the ol Devils Advocate, and looking at it from the retail perspective, that would restrict their sales from the 95% of people who do not have the fussiness of your average CSer, and are probably the ones keeping them in business. And using the CSs 333 rule, that would mean pre-ground would expire 3 minutes after being ground anyway, hardly a practical option.

So probably best course of action for a CS type is to roast their own, or buy direct from the roaster and ask the questions to ensure they are not disappointed. Allow the vendors to do their thing and sell as they see fit to keep them going and supply at least half decent coffee to the 95%, and keep the flags flying.

My thoughts anyway.

GrahamK

[JJJ]

Re: Speciality Coffee????

The date of sale is a good tool. It allows you to "remember" when you bought the beans

What purpose would it serve to know that?

A sold on date would only benefit the retailer, whereas a roasted on date benefits both retailer and customer.

I see little benefit in a "sold on" date unless its in addition to the "roasted on" date for reasons as suggested in your example above of a return.

In which case its for the retailers benefit not the customers.

Exactly.

A genuine "Use By" date predicated by the Roast Date/Type of bean/Roast etc and the Roasters knowledge and experience would be good. (e.g. Expiry for whole beans 3weeks or so after roasting).

Absolutely.
Ive often thought that with the availability of roasting dates becoming more prevalent (thankfully), that the next step is to provide, in the roasters expert opinion, both a drink by date and perhaps even a bean is at its peak after date.

Obviously such things are merely opinions and can vary with each roast and each palate but information is king and even an educated estimate would benefit the consumer.

BTW I was at Market Lane this afternoon and was discussing this very issue with the delightful Fleur (and Jason was there too ;D ) after noticing that theyve taken to putting a drink by date on their roasted beans.
At the moment its a generic 3 weeks that they go with but its a good start and hopefully others follow suit and also start tailoring the dates to specific beans, which would go a long way in helping to educate the masses about their beans and how to get the best possible result in the cup.

[rmoulynox]

Re: Speciality Coffee????

I got some fantastic beans from a roaster, and they advised of a roast date, but they also had a "Best before" date of 12 months from the roast date. I was a bit confused.

[Thundergod]

Re: Speciality Coffee????

I got some fantastic beans from a roaster, and they advised of a roast date, but they also had a "Best before" date of 12 months from the roast date. I was a bit confused.

I wonder how many years for their "Use by" date?

[Wushoes]

Re: Speciality Coffee????

owever playing the ol Devils Advocate, and looking at it from the retail perspective, that would restrict their sales from the 95% of people who do not have the fussiness of your average CSer, and are probably the ones keeping them in business. And using the CSs 333 rule, that would mean pre-ground would expire 3 minutes after being ground anyway, hardly a practical option.

This is exactly why some roasters pop a best before/expiry 12 months after it has been roasted - take the roasters word for the roast date. Just because it has an expiry date 12 months after it was roasted doesnt mean the coffee isnt specialty.

[Thundergod]

Re: Speciality Coffee????

theyve taken to putting a drink by date on their roasted beans.
At the moment its a generic 3 weeks

I put Best Before 3 weeks on my labels.

[Vinitasse]

Re: Speciality Coffee????

I put the roast time and date on each label and also mention that they are "Best Enjoyed Within 90 Days of Roast Date" and only stretch it to 90 days due to nitrogen flushing, otherwise 3 weeks makes sense to me

[maheel]

Re: Speciality Coffee????

is there a food rule that says you have to have a best / use before date?
not sure but thought it might

12 months just might be an easy number for many on the label gun....
eg today 1 year ahead ?

and have no relevance in the real "beat before" date for coffee

[Thundergod]

Re: Speciality Coffee????

is there a food rule that says you have to have a best / use before date?

Off the top of my head yes.
Some types of food have Best Before and others have to have Use By (fresh food, meat, milk etc?).

EDIT:
http://www.foodauthority.nsw.gov.au/consumers/food-labels/label-facts/best-before-and-use-by-dates/

[pressurestat]

Re: Speciality Coffee????

is there a food rule that says you have to have a best / use before date?

Off the top of my head yes.
Some types of food have Best Before and others have to have Use By (fresh food, meat, milk etc?).

EDIT:
http://www.foodauthority.nsw.gov.au/consumers/food-labels/label-facts/best-before-and-use-by-dates/

Oh was wondering why they never had an expiry date on a can of tuna.... well according to

http://www.foodauthority.nsw.gov.au/consumers/food-labels/label-facts/best-before-and-use-by-dates/

If the shelf life is longer than 2 years, no date mark is required at all.

[jasonscheltus]

Re: Speciality Coffee????

Its not "specialty coffee"! Every roaster has access to all the different types of coffee. It is up to the roasters what coffees they choose to deal in, the type of business they want to run, ad the type of image they want to portray.

Ergo....there are commodity coffee roasters and SPECIALTY coffee ROASTERS.  The word specialty refers to the roaster not the coffee.  

Other opinions?

This makes no sense to me at all.

Firstly not everyone has access to the same green coffee, I can give examples, but it would require names of companies that are not site sponsors and being kicked off this site again would be tedious.

Secondly, how can you say first that its not "specialty coffee" its roasters who buy specialty coffee that make them "specialty coffee roasters"? You need to define "specialty coffee" to define "specialty coffee roaster"! Youre confusing the argument with doublespeak.


Specialty coffee is defined as coffee that scores 80 points or above on either the SCAA form or the COE form.

The term gets highjacked a lot and substituted for gourmet waaay too often, incorrectly. You might have different ideas as to what you think specialty coffee should be, but bringing these ideas up on a forum as if they were true is misleading and confusing. If youd like to see your ideas included in the definition, approach the SCAA or AASCA and make a case for it.