Where do all the old commercial machines go?

[Shannon]

I know some make it to the bay, but realistically what happens to all the others? I know that they can get shuffled around for a couple of years between bigger and smaller cafes, but there must be thousands of upgrades each year across australia. Do they go off shore? are they scrapped?
Just interested is all.
Shannon.

[Thundergod]

Re: Where do all the old commercial machines go?

Site sponsor OMaras get quite a few.

[beanflying]

Re: Where do all the old commercial machines go?

In talking to a few ex cafe owners some do finish up at theirs or their friends homes (generally smaller ones). Some of the members have found them on footpaths during hard rubbish collections. Some are driven to death and are beyond all reasonable help of resurection go for brass scrap. Some of the local cafes i know do keep the old one as a spare but I wouldnt want a coffee out of them :P A few like me have been known to buy the odd one or so off the bay of evil too :

[Fresh_Coffee]

Re: Where do all the old commercial machines go?

We recondition machines as they come and go, and will look at them on an individual basis in terms of their condition, in deciding when it is time to scrap.

The price of stainless, steel, brass and copper is (like green coffee) at never before seen highs so we rarely sell a complete but scrapped machine. They are stripped of all usable parts and the resulting sorted piles of metal are taken to the scrap metal merchant for beer money.

No one said anything to the contrary here, but as far as we are concerned in the trade, there is nothing romantic or of antiquity in an old / obsolete coffee machine. If it was still considered any good in the scheme of things it would be reconditioned and sent out again. Its just a tool that at some point outlives its usefulness, just like any old taxi. You replace with modern, new equipment that will make coffee properly and have a good, long and reliable service life.

Regardz.
Attilio
very first CS site sponsor.

[MorganGT]

Re: Where do all the old commercial machines go?

No one said anything to the contrary here, but as far as we are concerned in the trade, there is nothing romantic or of antiquity in an old / obsolete coffee machine.

Depends how old it is - weve probably got close to 100 used espresso machines on the racking in our workshop, and there are probably a couple of dozen machines there that are old enough to be collectable and will eventually be fully refurbed when we have the time. Some are museum pieces and will probably get cosmetic resto as a display item only - like a very old La Scotty (Australian made) single group machine we took as trade-in that has the serial number 17.
Any old machine that is old enough to not look modern any more but is not old enough to look retro is generally kept as a parts source for cannibalising to fix other identical machines still in use by customers. Once they get to the stage of having few useful parts remaining, they are stripped to the chassis and parts not worth keeping go into scrap bins for recycling.
Newer machines are generally stripped to the chassis, recoed, tested and offered for sale to customers whose machines are getting beyond economic repair but dont want to bear the cost of a brand new machine. And a few of these are fixed up and kept as loan machines for temporary install in a customers premises if their machine needs to come back to the workshop for major repairs.

[Shannon]

Re: Where do all the old commercial machines go?

Thanks for the replies all. Interesting stuff.
I didnt think they would have been recycled through cafes quite as much as they are.
I wonder though are the "chain" store machines redeployed as much? I would have imagined that places like GJ and Michelles etc would have had some sort of policy that said the machines would have to be upgraded every couple of years as much from a PR/ looks perspective than anything. I wonder whether they are redeployed etc.
I have always had a bit of a thing for the Azoykens for some reason.
Ones from about 5 years ago. Not that I am creating this thread to try and work out where to get one, I am genuinely interested in where old machines go.

[A_M]

Re: Where do all the old commercial machines go?

They have been seen in bulk at some of teh scrap metal places in Brisbane...

They get crushed and in some cases the boilers may get stripped out. But often just have plastics removed and then compacted.

At least one CSér I know tries to keep an eye open; even if just to pickup the odd rotory pump and other bits.

Many places can not afford the cost of rebuilding and maintenance as UP_Time is critical for a cafe.

However as most require 15A or 20 A not many in the home market are interested in multi group machines..... A few Auction places have deals with scrap merchants and after a a few no shows, they cut their losses and dump. And then there is the cost of Quality repairs and meeting Electrical and other requirements.

Note:

Only last month another Electrician killed in Brisbane while changing a home light fitting. Complacence will get you every time and it happens across all states - but you only hear about it, if your involved or there is some MEDIA blitz.

[maheel]

Re: Where do all the old commercial machines go?

I wonder though are the "chain" store machines redeployed as much? I would have imagined that places like GJ and Michelles etc would have had some sort of policy that said the machines would have to be upgraded every couple of years as much from a PR/ looks perspective than anything.

i think for many company chain coffee stores (not franchisees) the company would just pretty much dump / auction them after they are full depreciated and worn out / not worth repairing. Pretty much just flog them to they are rough and bring in a new one. Ever notice how some chain stores dont seem to run highend commercial machines and prefer the simple "grunt" ones?

I bought two machines a while ago (Klubs) and the seller who owns a few fish restaurants in SYD just replaced instead of repairing. His Tek pretty much made the call to replace instead of downtime issues and loss of coffee $$$.

in can just be a $$$ numbers / accounting question for some operators.

[MorganGT]

Re: Where do all the old commercial machines go?

I didnt think they would have been recycled through cafes quite as much as they are.

Where machines are supplied by a coffee company as part of a supply contract the company tends to keep an eye on the value of the machine over time, gradually writing off the value against the income from bean sales. Unless the machine develops major problems or regularly breaks down (Klubs tend to come under this category) they will keep the machine deployed until the amount of $ it owes them reduces to zero - any usable life after that is a bonus, but at that stage the decision may be made to write it off and replace it if the machine needs $ spent on it and is too old and undesirable a model to be worth the investment. At that point they may be sold, scrapped, or in our case the company often just gives them to us to do with as we wish (we service/install/deinstall/repair machines for a few coffee companies).
Recycling of machines generally follows a pattern - new top-end machines generally go to the customers who buy the most beans and have relatively fancy premises where the machine is a focal point. New but less fancy machines (workhorses) tend to go to big customers where the machine is worked hard but is not a visual focal point of the business. When these machines are replaced down the track with newer machines, the now old machines get recycled down the food chain, being installed in premises that do less coffee. As you go down through the customer list, with kilos per week of beans getting less and less, you get older machines that have been recycled more often, and by the time you get to the bottom of the list, you get the greasy old machines sitting in the corner of fish & chip shops, little corner takeaways and the like. Often when you get to this level the machine makes more coffees for the staff than for the customers.
At that point the economics of renting the machine but only selling a few coffees a day becomes unfeasible, and the business owner usually quits the contract, and sometimes is offered the opportunity to buy the machine for an amount that covers the small amount still owing on it.

[Justin_Boyle]

Re: Where do all the old commercial machines go?

I would have imagined that places like GJ and Michelles etc would have had some sort of policy that said the machines would have to be upgraded every couple of years as much from a PR/ looks perspective than anything

Perhaps but I suspect the average customer of these stores dont even notice the machine. Probably too busy eyeing off the cakes that they wont notice the machine. Those that know better probably arent customers.