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  • #31
    Re: beginners problems

    Originally posted by Sparky link=1206874120/15#27 date=1207481968
    One things for sure. If I were to own a cafe, Id certainly look into this machine just to take out the barista variable and ensure consistency in supply (but only as long as the claim can be verified).
    As with most automation projects I was involved in over the years; even though the objective of a consistent level of product quality is nearly always the aim (and usually achieved); removing the variable of operators from various aspects of the "input" chain of control as a consequence, simply moves the expertise required to maintain that quality benchmark from the front-line, so to speak, to a higher plane of technical competency. This usually requires that a higher qualified person or persons need to be employed to both maintain and manage the more complex system(s) incorporated into the automation process.

    The end result may lead to a reduction in personnel required in total, but more expense in that the higher qualified personnel referred to above, will usually attract a significantly higher overall remuneration, whether this is achieved via direct employment or some contract maintenance arrangement. The other thing to keep in mind too is that complex automation, when it fails, can lead to very long downtime periods that can and do affect the bottom line directly. Changes to and loss of knowledgeable key personnel have even longer term negative effects, especially if documentation hasnt been well maintained. While you personally would probably have no difficulty in maintaining this type of equipment, in general most operators will be heavily reliant on equipment suppliers or their nominated service contractors and I doubt that this would come cheap.

    Lots to take into account in this sort of scenario I think..... :-?

    Mal.

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    • #32
      Re: beginners problems

      Originally posted by Sparky link=1206874120/15#25 date=1207472166
      The statement that "all superautos are incapable of making exceptional espresso" is easy to falsify: You only need ONE machine that is the exception to prove this wrong.
      On the contrary, this statement is extremely hard to prove because you need to test every superauto using an expert operator, which is not easy to do.

      The extrapolation from the use of a single machine to the claim that "all superautos are incapable of making exceptional espresso" requires a large number of assumptions about superautos and is easily falsified by finding ONE machine that is the exception.
      If youre going to attribute a quote to me then please do so accurately. I did not say "all superautos are incapable of making exceptional espresso". What I did say was:
      From what I have seen all of the superautos have this same desigh/mechanism. Ergo they will all have the same problem/shortcoming.

      Until such a time as manufacturers eliminate this design and come up with a machine that brews directly into the cup superautos will never be capable of producing the great cuppas that traditional machines with a nut on the end of the portafilter can.
      The use of this type of delivery system produces a physical effect on the espresso/crema. This is most easily seen by simply looking at the shot from a superauto. Notice the thin almost non-existent layer of crema. Even in Azkoyens own advertising literature such is the case. Their pictures of espresso shots show almost no crema on them at all.

      The volume and properties of the crema is a HUGE component in both the mouthfeel and taste of an espresso. If the crema isnt present or is lacking, so is its mouthfeel and flavors.

      From what I can see of the Azkoyen Spression it uses the same basic design of every other superauto Ive seen, i.e. it forces the brewed espresso through a tube to the dispensing point. If such is the case (and Ive neither seen nor heard anything to the contrary) then the espresso undergoes the same physical changes as seen in any other superauto.

      And yes, if you could find one single superauto machine that uses this design that can produce a great cup (by my standards and not the standards of Joe Blow on the street gulping his StarChar down) then it would indeed prove my statement wrong.

      I have no doubt at all that some day (probably with-in 5-10 years) someone will make a superauto that is fully capable of producing World Class God Shots, shot after shot all day long. We have the technology to do it today. As yet however, no one appears to have made such a machine. It is with-out a doubt coming, but its not here yet.


      Java "Gotta have crema!" phile
      Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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      • #33
        Re: beginners problems

        Hi Gus

        I have been drinking coffee for over 30 years however I have learnt more about coffee in the last 6 months that all of those 30 years put together.

        I think coffee is like that, the more you learn the less you know.

        When I feel overwhelmed, I go back to this article

        http://www.home-barista.com/forums/understanding-espresso-t116.html


        Ciao
        F.

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