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  • Have i bean had? How fresh is best fresh?

    Hi all,

    Bit of clarification needed for a green bean...

    Living in Tasmania gives me comparatively few choices when it comes to buying good beans. I have so far tried 2 - Tas Coffee Roasters and Oomph. The former roasts daily and i have had several roasts from them. I thought fresh was best so, being eager to experiment, I bought the blend that had been roasted that day. (I buy 250 gms so all gone in around 8 days).

    So far so good. Then i went to Oomph. They have fresh roasts too, but not on site. Their roasts are around 10 days old when you purchase them (although oddly enough no roast date on packs). They say THIS is the optimum time to be drinking them and brewing with any fresher coffee would be a waste as the flavour has not fully developed. :-?

    So who do i believe?

    PS Oomph coffee is over 3 times the price of Tas roasters. Any idea why??

  • #2
    Re: Have i bean had? How fresh is best fresh?

    Hi there
    While you can drink immediately you would do well to let the beans sit for 2 - 3 days before consumption and try them each day and see how the flavour progresses as they age.

    People typically use beans anywhere from 7 - 14 days, also different varieties will exhibit marked changes to the flavours in relation to resting times of the beans.

    The proviso is that your beans are stored using an appropriate method.

    Mal

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Have i bean had? How fresh is best fresh?

      Originally posted by 4852451C1A131B2B0 link=1236247786/0#0 date=1236247786
      Oomph coffee is over 3 times the price of Tas roasters. Any idea why??  
      Nope.
      Does it taste 3 times better?


      As for how fresh is too fresh, taste is subjective.
      As bolb said, taste it every day until you find your preferred date range.

      I have some regulars that I prefer after 7 days.
      Theres a particular bean I could never understand why other people liked...until I left it for 2 to 3 weeks before trying.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Have i bean had? How fresh is best fresh?

        Originally posted by 3D2730696F666E5E0 link=1236247786/0#0 date=1236247786
        So who do i believe?
        Its not a case of believing one or the other. "Fresh" can mean different things for different beans, roasters, brewing techniques and packaging methods.

        I cant say that I have ever had great espresso at less than about three days. You might notice that your shots are less acidic and have more stable crema - rather than collapsing to half of the volume that you initially extract - if you let them wait a few days or maybe even longer. Buying two lots at once on the day that they are roasted and trying them one after the other is probably a worthwhile experiment.

        I think that for a coffee to be viable as espresso after ten days, it would definitely have to be sealed in an airtight container or a valve bag.

        Cheers,
        Luca

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Have i bean had? How fresh is best fresh?

          Hi Guys,

          thank you for your comments. I really do appreciate tips and opinions from the experts, all of who assist me on my journey to coffee nirvana.

          No, the coffee was not 3 times as good, but it WAS better, and the shop has some sort of fair trade agreement (the whole topic of which i have not yet got my head around). :-?

          I like the sound of buying 2 bags and comparing. Certainly, the bag that was 10 days old has become less tasty in the last few days. Ah the excitement of continuing experimentation

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Have i bean had? How fresh is best fresh?

            Originally posted by 263C2B72747D75450 link=1236247786/4#4 date=1236331509
            No, the coffee was not 3 times as good, but it WAS better
            So maybe the cheaper one is overpriced.

            Originally posted by 263C2B72747D75450 link=1236247786/4#4 date=1236331509
            the shop has some sort of fair trade agreement
            I hope thats not an excuse to bump up the prices.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Have i bean had? How fresh is best fresh?


              Originally posted by 6C504D565C5D4A5F575C380 link=1236247786/5#5 date=1236334515
              I hope thats not an excuse to bump up the prices.
              Usually is. ahhhh...bite your lip Andy, bite your lip!

              Originally posted by 5B41560F090008380 link=1236247786/4#4 date=1236331509
              Ah the excitement of continuing experimentation
              You could always roast your own... then that "experimentation excitement" never stops.



              (ooohhh, second time this month I could use the crazy eyed (over caffeinated maybe??) smiley face in context)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Have i bean had? How fresh is best fresh?

                Originally posted by 436C667B020 link=1236247786/6#6 date=1236610627
                Originally posted by 6C504D565C5D4A5F575C380 link=1236247786/5#5 date=1236334515
                I hope thats not an excuse to bump up the prices.
                Usually is. ahhhh...bite your lip Andy, bite your lip!
                My lip is hurting too much!

                ;DThe following opinions by the member may not represent the views of the administrators of this site ;D

                Some outlets do charge more than what the "donation" to the farmer is.
                http://www.racetothetop.org/news/radio/2004/06/10.html#a410

                As you can see from this link the farmer receives on average 44 cents per pound above the market price. This is about $1 per kilo.
                After roasting about $1.33/Kg. So a 250g bag of FT coffee should only be 34cents more than standard coffee. Even if the site is quoting USD or Euro that would be 70cents per bag.

                There was a famous story of an outlet selling both FT and standard coffee side by side. I forget the details and wish I could find the story so it may not be too accurate.
                They were charging something like $0.50 more for a shot of FT.
                A uni student found out the extra charge per kilo was and did the sums. Using the worse figures above and assume 14 gram of coffee per shot it equates to 3.7cents. When the authorities found out they order the store to stop charging the extra for FT.
                Can anyone else remember that story?

                FT may also be self defeating in the global sense;

                "It is a long held tenet of welfare economics that – in the absence of external effects – efficient transfers must not distort prices. In contrast, indirect transfers that are tied to economic activities, such as subsidized producer prices, lead to overproduction and thus deadweight losses. By the same logic, donations that are tied to an economic activity will give rise to similar inefficiencies – the respective economic activity will exceed the level that is optimal from a welfare perspective. For instance, donations may take the form of a premium over the world market price that consumers are willing to pay for a particular product with the premium going to some charity or to the producers themselves. This makes the donation conditional upon production and sale of the goods. Instead of equalizing marginal production costs and prices, producers will extend the production up to a point where marginal costs equal price plus donation premium and thus produce too much compared to a situation in which (the same amount of) donations were made directly. This results in excessive supply and eventually a reduction of the world market price which runs counter to the intended effect. If the same amount of donations were given directly to the charity or the producers, production decisions would be optimal and the charity or the producers would be better off."
                (Extract from http://www.vwl.uni-freiburg.de/iwipol/discussion_papers/DP2_koppel-schulze_condtrans.pdf )

                That last line is a good rap for FairCrack!

                Probably the biggest issue that a Coffee snob, like myself, has is expressed here;
                http://www.coffeexclusive.com/htm1___p__articleview___aid__45.html

                While every Coffeesnob would probably be more than happy to pay above the market rate (especaily if it is only $0.50 a kilo) they arent going to be paying for low quality. Price needs to be linked to quality.

                cyn7180 Can I suggest buying online from beanbay or Coffee barun? They put the roast date on. You may need to buy a kilo or more to make the shipping worth while. Go halves with another coffee lover?

                If you have the time, roasting yourself is the best way to go. Cheapest, freshest, unlimited experimentation and YOU get to decide the type of roast you want.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Have i bean had? How fresh is best fresh?

                  another great online site is www.coffeecentral.com.au coffee here is roasted and sent the same day you order.....

                  then you can proceed to age the coffee at your discretion and flavour profile...... it is always personal and do not let anyone else tell you different...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Have i bean had? How fresh is best fresh?

                    Wow, so much great info here!

                    Originally posted by 476A41666F6F62030 link=1236247786/8#8 date=1236929428
                    then you can proceed to age the coffee at your discretion and flavour profile...... it is always personal and do not let anyone else tell you different...
                    this is reassuring, and i think i came to this same conclusion this week when someone recommended a coffee as "one of their most popular" and I dont like it at all. It is, however, getting better as the days pass.

                    I do have a confession to make though. I wont bore you with the details, but i DID make an error with my pricing calculation (bit of a concern given Im a maths teacher!). The oomph coffee was only marginally more, and nowhere near 3 times more. SO embarrassing when your errors are in print and are the subject of a thread. :-[

                    There is a happy ending though. I am totally convinced about roasting my own ;D To this end, i will jump forums and save all my roasting questions for a more appropriate thread.

                    Special thanks to Bassway for your comments and explanation on FT coffee. Ive long thought about the whole concept of FT and cynically wondered if its one of those many concepts that are more about making us feel like were doing something, than actually do make a difference.

                    Just going to the shed now to see if i can find my near-new bread maker under all that dust

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Have i bean had? How fresh is best fresh?

                      Originally posted by 2933247D7B727A4A0 link=1236247786/9#9 date=1236980220
                      Special thanks to Bassway for your comments and explanation on FT coffee. Ive long thought about the whole concept of FT and cynically wondered if its one of those many concepts that are more about making us feel like were doing something, than actually do make a difference.
                      Thanks..... but I hope you dont end up as cynical as me!

                      I have only present the down sides of the argument. I think I was having a bad day at work! The case is far more complex then that. Its seems to me Fair Trade is good but not perfect.

                      I think that growers should get paid well, better than they are currently. Fair Trade in one way of doing this (although inefficient). The really offensive thing to me is when retailers up their price (beyond the farmers increase) because it is labeled Fair Trade. Playing on peoples good intentions.
                      Why Fair Trade couldnt have an average breakdown of pricing on their products to stop this behaviour?

                      As you can see the extra price, to pay the farmer, per bag of roasted coffee is minimal. This should be the point behind FT. At the point of sale the customer should see very little difference.

                      One thing for sure is that most of the coffee grown in the world (where the farmer is paid too low) is for large multi national companies that then turn it into instant coffee. So buying "proper" coffee is a better step anyway.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Have i bean had? How fresh is best fresh?

                        Originally posted by 3C3F2D2D293F275E0 link=1236247786/10#10 date=1236984605
                        I think that growers should get paid well, better than they are currently. Fair Trade in one way of doing this (although inefficient)
                        Which is precisely what the Gaggia people were saying in the link you provided.
                        This book, complete with a healthy dose of cynacism , also seems to have some good food for thought.
                        http://books.google.com.au/books?id=TBrCVj_LTq0C&printsec=frontcover&dq=fair+ trade+coffee&ei=W4C7Sa_UApOmkQT54e3dCw

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