coffee cart machine regulations!

[wheeliebean]

Hi Coffee Snobs,
My partener and I are in the process of setting up a portable coffee cart in the central Vic. area. We are about 80% there and are picking up a 12month old Expobar Silvestre next week. After telling a local cafe owner of our plans he mentioned something about health and safety/fire regulations regarding machines with powdercoated & or plastic exteriors. It all sounded abit silly to me... just hoping to cover our bases incase.

Also any other portable coffee carters out there... we are deciding on whether to invest in a generator to power our 15amp cart, and some people we have spoken to in a similar situation have found that most events/markets they attend have 15 amp power nearby.
if anyone has any info and can help out, it would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,
nigel

[blanyon]

Re: coffee cart machine regulations!

Huh what health and safety regs??? Sounds weird to me however in Vic you need approval from each local government to operate in their territory (which comes at a cost) so I would go and speak to them as they administer the food regs.

As for power yes almost all markets etc you attend will have a power supply and to keep costs down I wouldnt buy one initially but hire one on a trailer when required. If you find you are constantly shelling out for one go and buy one.

What part of central vic (bendigo maybe)

[wheeliebean]

Re: coffee cart machine regulations!

thanks very much for your reply moto coffee
good idea with hiring a generator, would preferably avoid forking out another grand on a generator. asamatterofact we are in the bendigo area yeah.
thanks for your tips
cheers,
nigel

[blanyon]

Re: coffee cart machine regulations!

Grew up in Boort (hr north) and like the area, also should be lots of events in the region so you should do well.

Good luck PM if you have anything more specific you need answered.

[scoota_gal]

Re: coffee cart machine regulations!

I was reading recently in a well respected Aussie bike mag, that a rider had been to his fave haunt in Victoria for a coffee and when he said his drink wasnt as hot as it used to be, was told that due to health and safety the machine had to be set at 70 degrees...

Ive never heard of that before, any truth to that statement??

[blanyon]

Re: coffee cart machine regulations!

Not something I am familiar with but if "the machine" was set at a temp it sounds like it could be a larger sized company who are doing it for their own oh&s reasons. I think if councils were going around telling cafes what temp they can serve their coffees at I would think there would be a bit of an outcry regarding big brother being a bit too involved.

[Bullitt]

Re: coffee cart machine regulations!

Quote " ...was told that due to health and safety the machine had to be set at 70 degrees..."

Sounds like someone has got a bit confused, with optimum milk temperature and brew temperature.
I can see why OH&S might lead to recommending milk temperature be a max of 70deg....cos it is possible to burn the skin off the inside of your mouth with "overly hot" milk....thereby leading to possible legal action.

Whereas I would be very interested to see the OH&S  justification for limiting brew temp

Apart from that there seems unfortunately for various reasons, an amount of people out there who have all sorts of good advice, that should never be listened to.
It can often be good to get your own copy of any relevant legislation, codes of conduct, etc, because not even all officials that you have to deal with will be fully versed with your particular requirements,
and talk to someone who has done, or is doing the same thing as you intend.
The more you find out before you try to start the better off you will be.

[A_M]

Re: coffee cart machine regulations!

Quote " ...was told that due to health and safety the machine had to be set at 70 degrees..."

Sounds like someone has got a bit confused, with optimum milk temperature and brew temperature.
I can see why OH&S might lead to recommending milk temperature be a max of 70deg....cos it is possible to burn the skin off the inside of your mouth with "overly hot" milk....thereby leading to possible legal action.

Whereas I would be very interested to see the OH&S  justification for limiting brew temp

Apart from that there seems unfortunately for various reasons, an amount of people out there who have all sorts of good advice, that should never be listened to.
It can often be good to get your own copy of any relevant legislation, codes of conduct, etc, because not even all officials that you have to deal with will be fully versed with your particular requirements,
and talk to someone who has done, or is doing the same thing as you intend.
The more you find out before you try to start the better off you will be.

I agree..

You have the onus on YOU to understand the relevant legislation, codes of conduct, etc..  

Good advice has never stood the test of the courts...

There are all sorts of requirements as to Serving temp and food warmers..  I am unaware of ANY requirements as to preparation temp...  How are you going to stir fry at 70C  ;D   Or brew head temp when we all know that 70c is too low for coffee  

The issue is around the temp that the final product is presented / given to the consumer AND or if the preparation gear, is exposed to / accessible to the members of the public..   Workers are covered by your processes and training etc.

The issue here is that some can and may miss understand the intent of the regulations and thus can cause you problems..

Remember Temp is also about refrigeration...  It is about the storage / prep temp ... Not the service temp...

So you have Three issues to consider..

1: Preparation requirements
2: Serving requirements
3: Storage requirements...

For coffee, 70C should not be a problem for a good barista..

1: Coffee is only 30 or 60 ml and at a temp some what less than 90C
2: Milk should be between 60 and 70C

By the time you add the milk to the coffee and into a Takeaway container or someones Coffee mug..   I would be comfortable is saying that the final serving temp would be within the limits...

However, many SCALD the milk and OVER do it to the extent that the coffee is TOO  HOT.  

Now providing a TEA may be another issue...  Water should be off the boil but add a tea bag and the serving temp could be still tooo hot...

Just my 2 cents worth and as it is only advice, you can take it or leave it..  BUT remember..

Relevant legislation, codes of conduct, etc will cover;  

1: Preparation requirements
2: Serving requirements
3: Storage requirements...

Shame they do not cover the Quality of the Product or the Person behind the counter  ;D

[Fresh_Coffee]

Re: coffee cart machine regulations!

Hello everyone.

My son started a mobile coffee van business around three years ago.

It was a simple as going to the local council and asking them for advice. They gave him the relevant pamphlets and filled him in verbally.

He did whatever they wanted, which was not hard.

Then they left him alone to carry on as he saw fit.

And he did well.

All councils have different regs so as someone above mentioned you have to ask your local council.  Suggest you become their best friend for a short period while you set up. Then they know about you, and largely leave you alone.

I dont know of any regulations regarding the coffee machine. That doesnt mean there may not be any in your area, just check with your council about what they require.

Regardz,
Attilio
very first CS site sponsor.

[kevin_g_newman]

Re: coffee cart machine regulations!

have you thought about lpg gas powered coffee machines I have a leva style one running on a mobile coffee cart requires only a 300w inverter and a 9kg gas bottle

Hi Coffee Snobs,
My partener and I are in the process of setting up a portable coffee cart in the central Vic. area. We are about 80% there and are picking up a 12month old Expobar Silvestre next week. After telling a local cafe owner of our plans he mentioned something about health and safety/fire regulations regarding machines with powdercoated & or plastic exteriors. It all sounded abit silly to me... just hoping to cover our bases incase.

Also any other portable coffee carters out there... we are deciding on whether to invest in a generator to power our 15amp cart, and some people we have spoken to in a similar situation have found that most events/markets they attend have 15 amp power nearby.
if anyone has any info and can help out, it would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,
nigel  

[blanyon]

Re: coffee cart machine regulations!

Where can you get hold of the gas machines? What is the ballpark price? And finally how accurate is the temp control on them?

[TC]

Re: coffee cart machine regulations!

My beautiful old Faema is/was able to run on gas and the burner is still in place  8-)

You can see the hookup on the front panel below the drip tray to the left of the black knob. Technically, you should be able to get great temperature control as an electrical element is simply on or off....

[beanflying]

Re: coffee cart machine regulations!

It was a standard option on a lot of the earlier Rancilio machines as well.

If you look at some of the modern Lever machines you will find in some cases an option for gas heating. Elektra I think have them? Also Fracino http://www.fracino.com/machines/trad...nes/retro.html and I know I have seen another modern lever in the Bezzera Ellise Lever

Got so love silent coffee  

[wheeliebean]

Re: coffee cart machine regulations!

Thanks for all your input.
yeah Kevin, we did consider a gas powered machine. We are trying to keep our costs down at the moment and had a regular machine in the pipeline to buy. Hopefully we will be allright but will consider a generator/ gas conversions if we come into bother.

picked up our "used" machine the other day and it still has the plastic covering the back. looks like it has made 100 coffees max are slowly but surely get towards being fully set up. very exciting. all we now are some gigs


thanks again yall