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Cupping for Milk based beverages

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  • #16
    Re: Cupping for Milk based beverages

    Call it what you will, I "cup" my coffee, be it helpful or not Michelle, not just taste and say "Shell be right mate, tastes like a goodn"...

    I think the word "cupping" is thrown around a lot in many cases because it is considered to be an elitist term by several people who brandish it around at the drop of a hat when all they are doing is tasting. I always do my best to identify everything that is going on in the roast batches I complete here at home and if all Im doing is tasting to some of the fraternity, so be it; I dont really care to be very honest. Once again, all seems like a big storm in a coffee-cup to me...

    I have just finished reading Innys article in Beanscene too by the way and for my money, what he says in there is spot-on from my perspective... 8-)

    Mal.

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    • #17
      Re: Cupping for Milk based beverages

      With the greatest respect to anyone whos been on this road for much longer than me as I certainly dont pretend or claim to know it all.

      I dont really see whats so hard to understand about this. Cupping is a technical process with established protocols. Anything else is tasting. If not, then watching TV is colour grading and writing random numbers in columns is building a P&L report.

      The language surrounding coffee is often confusing and varied enough as it is, full of buzz words and jargon at times. Lets not make it worse by trying to change the few clearly defined terms that we have.

      I have realised I dont cup espresso, I taste it and try to find ways to make it better. I HOPE that the green bean suppliers I buy from have cupped the coffee already so it isnt full of defects that I can never have a chance of resolving in the roast or the extraction.

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      • #18
        Re: Cupping for Milk based beverages

        Originally posted by 500F17010A010D040407070F030C620 link=1251482092/13#13 date=1251538878
        Something in that I reckon Chris....I presume that if you like the taste, you then consume?
        Sure do mate ! "Its whats in the cup that counts"....somebody alot more clued up than me said that .
        I get it and I will have a good go at learning the "cupping process" as a another important part of my coffee journey, IMO it is different. But calling tasting "cupping" looks like the gloves are still off.

        Good job we are all mates

        Chris

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        • #19
          Re: Cupping for Milk based beverages

          First off and on topic, Cupping is the process and protocol, not the term for tasting. We compete in cup tasting comps, not cupping comps.

          I agree with posters who think the term is elitist. I think they are using the term (incorrectly) to try and give themselves some credibility. They taste coffee but do not want that word used in the context "oh yeah I taste coffee too". By saying they cup coffee they are trying to portray something more than "it tastes nice". Perhaps you would be better off to say you analyze the taste of coffee. But cupping is a process, not an umbrella term.

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          • #20
            Re: Cupping for Milk based beverages

            Originally posted by 4B66626E630F0 link=1251482092/15#15 date=1251553128
            I think the word "cupping" is thrown around a lot in many cases because it is considered to be an elitist term by several people who brandish it around at the drop of a hat when all they are doing is tasting.
            Isnt that what you are doing?

            Originally posted by 4B66626E630F0 link=1251482092/15#15 date=1251553128
            I have just finished reading Innys article in Beanscene too by the way and for my money, what he says in there is spot-on from my perspective... 8-)
            As I explained in the other thread, Instaurators article also uses the term "cuppers" incorrectly. "Cupping" refers to a process. Instaurator uses the word "cuppers" to refer to people looking for a particular set of characteristics. Innys argument is that if we want to use coffee for espresso, we shouldnt select the characteristicsthat are desirable for filter coffee. The article is not a total indictment of the cupping process. Inny gives the clear example of using the cupping process to select coffee with characteristics suitable for espresso in buying coffee for Paul Bassetts WBC blend.

            Originally posted by 4B66626E630F0 link=1251482092/15#15 date=1251553128
            I always do my best to identify everything that is going on in the roast batches I complete here at home and if all Im doing is tasting to some of the fraternity, so be it; I dont really care to be very honest.
            You seem to think that there is something wrong with the word "tasting." Its a perfectly good description of what you are doing. I dont see the problem with it. I dont call it "cupping" when I taste coffee unless I do it with the "cupping" method. Why do you?

            The fraternity point is a good one, which I have tried to address, and will do so again. I dont think that any coffee consumers should feel a compulsion to cup. That is looking at it arse about. Consuming and enjoying coffee is a choice of consumers and they can do it how they see fit. The cupping process isnt something there to bamboozle and ostracise consumers; it is there to serve consumers, by giving people who use the process a methodical and comprehensive way to taste coffee to evaluate and describe it for the purpose of selecting, maintaining quality and communicating its characteristics. If people who are "cupping" are doing it in a way that alienates consumers, that fails to deliver better coffee to consumers or that delivers a description of the coffee that consumers cannot relate to, whats the point? Such people are doing it wrong.

            One point on the idea that "cupping" is a subset of "tasting", and it is this: "cupping" is not the only way to taste coffee. "Cupping" is simply a process that has certain advantages over other processes, together with certain disadvantages. Whether or not using the cupping process is a good idea depends on the purpose that it serves.

            As I have said in the other thread, cupping is a process that will often be of limited use to consumers. The more coffee you roast, the more well suited the cupping process becomes to the purposes that it is used for. If theres any notion that will shoot down this ridiculous idea that cupping is "elitist", it is this - the most intensive application of the cupping process is in grading commodity coffee to be traded on exchanges and in maintaining quality control for large coffee chain roasters.

            Originally posted by 676E756C676A620F0 link=1251482092/16#16 date=1251562093
            I dont really see whats so hard to understand about this. Cupping is a technical process with established protocols. Anything else is tasting. If not, then watching TV is colour grading and writing random numbers in columns is building a P&L report.
            Yes, thats it exactly.

            Originally posted by 676E756C676A620F0 link=1251482092/16#16 date=1251562093
            The language surrounding coffee is often confusing and varied enough as it is, full of buzz words and jargon at times. Lets not make it worse by trying to change the few clearly defined terms that we have.
            Exactly. Part of the reason why it is so heavy on jargon that is largely meaningless to consumers is that hopefully quality control processes will screen out coffee possessing some of the more jargonistic attributes. I dont think that consumers should have a good idea of what the onset of "mouldiness," "baginess," "rio defect," "soft ferment," "hard ferment," "phenolic," "hard cup" and the million other specialist terms dealing with defects taste like. If coffee roasters are doing their job, they will screen their coffee offerings so that such coffees never reach the consumer. This is a very large part of what cupping is used for in the real world, and its something that roasters dont really put across to consumers. Understandably; roasters use cupping to show off to consumers how fantastic their coffee is. To do so, they should have already pre-screened out the defects. Of course, this is all good in theory, but, in fact, I think that roasters could do a better job of it. I have now blind tasted over 25 different offerings from Australian roasters, with two other tasters who have a fair bit of exposure to coffee, but who dont necessarily select coffee or use the cupping process for a living; the idea being that this is a representative and informed panel that can give a realistic appraisal of the coffees that we review for consumers. So far, we have recommended less than half of the coffees that we have reviewed and we have tasted coffees that the roasters probably should have rejected. Whilst consumers should never feel that they should have to cup, roasters should definitely feel that they have to have some sort of quality control in practice, and the cupping process is a good one, especially when it comes to selecting coffee.

            Originally posted by 3D627A6C676C6069696A6A626E610F0 link=1251482092/13#13 date=1251538878
            I think its too easy to get caught up in the process and ritual to the detriment of the outcome. Were here to enjoy the coffee!

            Nothing wrong with learning how to cup traditionally and enjoying the ritual but in my case, I often enjoy #1 cup of the day the most. Its usually the one where I say "The good barista must be on this morning"!

            Ultimately, its all about balance...in so many ways
            Another lovely and sensible post, Chris.

            Why should consumers feel that they have to cup? They shouldnt! Consumers should simply enjoy what they are drinking!

            I have done a lot of cupping, but I have done it all out of interest. I seldom cup more than once a week, and when I do a public cupping put on by a coffee roaster, Im always doing it with a view to working out what is going to be the tastiest coffee for me to buy, usually to run through an espresso machine.

            Cupping is a useless exercise if it doesnt add to enjoyment of coffee; either your own, or that of your customers.

            Cheers,

            Luca

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