Facebook coffee venom. (coffee ethics)

[muppet_man67 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close muppet_man67]

In my excitement tonight about Beanbay and anticipation of recieving a new bunch of greens I poste this in my status

Sam Tansey Another 20kg of coffee coming my way. What do I roast first though? Peru Ceja de Selva Estate, Bolivia Caranavi, Nicaragua Dipilto Estate or the Ethiopian Gambella Naturals?

In response a friend whom I havnt seen in a few years posted

im sure theyre all delicious. and being that they all come from third world countries, Im sure all the workers will all equally be as underpaid!

Im a little speechless.  :-/

[scoota_gal Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close scoota_gal]

Re: Facebook coffee venom. (coffee ethics)

You should point out the value of things like Faircrack, mm...

[Koffee_Kosmo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Koffee_Kosmo]

Re: Facebook coffee venom.

In response a friend whom I havnt seen in a few years posted
Quote:
im sure theyre all delicious. and being that they all come from third world countries, Im sure all the workers will all equally be as underpaid!


Im a little speechless.Undecided

Lifestyle & Pay is relative as to what one can purchase in a particular country

We in Australia have our own struggles and we get paid many % more
And we have many homeless & underprivileged, to many in my book for a so called 1st world country

KK

[Thundergod Sleep is overrated Find all posts View Profile Close Thundergod]

Re: Facebook coffee venom. (coffee ethics)

Im a little speechless.

I AM speechless.

[muppet_man67 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close muppet_man67]

Re: Facebook coffee venom. (coffee ethics)

I threw her this email.

ouch some venom there. Im not sure that boycotting third world countries in general is going to help bring a greater standard of living to those people? The coffee are all specialty grade, or estate coffees meaning the come from specific farms or are sold through regional co-ops/schemes and attract prices for growers often above "Fair trade" certified minimums, That said the Bolivia is a certified "Fair Trade" coffee.

The coffee trade has deservedly got a bad name, this came about due to the large coffee companies such as Sarah Lee or Nestle trading coffee on the commodities markets, True to the form of capitalism this resulted in people wearing suits making heaps of money whilst the people whose livelihoods depended on it could barely feed their families let alone pay their workers fairly. I assure you these coffees do not come through those channels.

Furthermore the co-op that I receive the coffee through has its own development project called fair crack which collects a small percentage of sales and puts the money back into coffee producing communities. Details of the program here. http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1173409950
http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1224458598

Obviously for environmental reasons buying local is preferable where possible. I love Australian coffee and we have growers that produce an amazing product, however our national crop is no where near big or diverse enough to meet demand and its rare it becomes available through my supplier.

[Thundergod Sleep is overrated Find all posts View Profile Close Thundergod]

Re: Facebook coffee venom. (coffee ethics)

Excellent.

[flynnaus Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close flynnaus]

Re: Facebook coffee venom. (coffee ethics)

Just what the world needs: another cynic offering criticism without solutions.

Another approach is to send her articles (preferably independent ones)where Fairtrade has benefited farmers.

[shawty Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close shawty]

Re: Facebook coffee venom. (coffee ethics)

So does she think that not buying their coffee (source of income) would benefit them more. :

[melicious Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close melicious]

Re: Facebook coffee venom. (coffee ethics)

At least you had the opportunity to give them more info, and presumably they feel quite strongly about the subject and will actually listen.

It did sound very snippy tho, so maybe not. Some people just like to be obnoxious for the lulz.

[WSullivan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close WSullivan]

Re: Facebook coffee venom. (coffee ethics)

delete your friend! ;D

[capuchin Member Find all posts View Profile Close capuchin]

Re: Facebook coffee venom. (coffee ethics)

muppet_man67,

I think you turned this remark into a terrific opportunity - good for you!

Im sure that your friend, (who is obviously passionate about the subject) will be able to appreciate that you are sourcing your beans from a community that has an established track record of helping workers on the ground.

Passion is a good thing

[muppet_man67 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close muppet_man67]

Re: Facebook coffee venom. (coffee ethics)

I have received an apologetic response. Im actually glad she said something to be honest as it allowed me to respond.

Its not the first time I have come across misconception about fair trade coffee amongst some of my environmentally and socially aware friends and associates.

I have had people hesitate when I have offered them some of my roasted beans because "they only drink fair trade/organic.

It can take some explaining to convince people that just because a coffee is not certified fair trade that it was still traded fairly, Likewise trying to explain that the coffee is organic despite it not carrying an organic certification.

Often I feel that I leave these conversation in the same position as I started with people just thinking that I am kidding myself.

[Bosco_Lever Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bosco_Lever]

Re: Facebook coffee venom. (coffee ethics)

I agree, many people like to jump on the fair trade/organic bandwagon because they believe it is "trendy".
The term "organic" is used incorrectly so often and its true application is misunderstood. Many people think organic is the only true way of producing food, yet do not truly understand what horticulture involves.
The type of fertilizer used is really not that important. What is more relevant is the numerous chemicals used to control pests etc. These pesticides can be really nasty, so the term pesticide free is more applicable.
Australia is notorious for controlling pests with nasty chemicals, be it AQUIS (imported food) or the numerous states (like SA) that require some foods to be "treated" before being able to be sold or transported to particular regions.
When plants need nutrients, they take up what they need from the soil; they do not differentiate between its origin (be it from plant matter or from processed crushed rocks). There are so many arguments about what is truly organic, that I believe the term is misleading and needs further clarification. The same applies to fair trade.
I find that with such outspoken people the best tactic is to ask in depth questions about the subject. As their lack of knowledge soon becomes obvious to everyone, the subject is dropped and usually avoided.
Hopefully those in the know can then start to edumacate them.

[ORCA15 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ORCA15]

Re: Facebook coffee venom. (coffee ethics)


Organic is not just the fertilizer used or the type of seed. etc. to get organic certification the entire process is audited. especially the pest control and the storage of harvested product. (I know something about this) Fairtrade is also an important thing Id rather ensure my supply of product by having the farmer be paid a "just" price for their product. But, the inherent problem with fairtrade is the supply chain used after the farm gate is normally screwed for price. This is a cause that needs addressing.
Additionally, the forms of treatment used by AQIS and DPIs are sensitive to the organic process. That is to say IF treatment is necessary, often if the supply chain is doing its job treatment may not be necessary.
"Trend" doesnt come into it - do the right thing, keep it clean and ensure your supply by allowing the producer to benefit for their toil

[TC . Find all posts View Profile Close TC]

Re: Facebook coffee venom. (coffee ethics)

If its a great coffee, it should (can) bring a great price regardless. The whole problem with FT is that little gets back to the farmer, little is done to ensure bean quality and more often than not a whole lot of greedy middle men pocket the premium paid by gullible consumers.

Id much rather send my $$$ to FairCrack where every cent goes to those who need it rather than offices, desks, cars and fat cat salaries.