Blood pressure & weight loss

[Rodda]

Since I have had my first coffee machine and started drinking a lot more coffee than normal I have noticed a couple of fairly important changes regarding my blood pressure and weight. Of course I am wondering if it is merly cosncidental or not. I have done a few searches and failed to find any relevant posts.
My blood pressure was running a bit too high so the Doc had me on Hydrene, which I was a bit slack with as it didnt seem to make any difference. However since the increase in coffee intake my BP is consistantly lower and I have had to tighten my belt a notch to keep my duds up.
I believe that coffee can increase the metabolic rate so that is probaly what has contributed to the weight loss.
If any one out there has any thoughts on the health issues of coffee I would really appreciate their input. We often hear that coffee is BAD FOR THE HEATR ??? I wonder is there any real proof of this?

[Thundergod]

Re: Blood pressure & weight loss

Not letting me drink coffee increases my blood pressure.
The doctor merely suggesting such an obcene thought does the same.

I have to have another heart test soon to keep the doctor happy but all previous tests have shown it to be perfect despite the few extra kilos I carry.

Ive been on cholestorol lowering drugs for the last 18 months or so and my recent blood test results show a remarkable improvement for the first time.

Maybe the new drugs are better than the old ones.

[capuchin]

Re: Blood pressure & weight loss

Hi Rodda.

Systolic or Diastolic?

I think the only way to really tell would be to check your blood pressure before and after your daily cup of coffee.

Everything Ive read about blood pressure over the years tends to indicate that caffeine can increase your blood pressure - although building a tolerance to caffeine may negate that over time.

I think that eating healthy and exercising regularly are still probably the most effective ways of combating this. And donating blood, also!

[Pavoniboy]

Re: Blood pressure & weight loss

As a med student we are trained to ask about caffeine consumption immediately prior to having blood pressure measured. Caffeine immediately prior is considered to raise BP, but not in the long term.

For some referenced evidence of caffeine on BP:

From Goodman and Gilmans Pharmacology:
Consumption of caffeine can raise blood pressure and elevate plasma concentrations of norepinephrine, but long-term consumption of caffeine causes tolerance to these effects and has not been associated with the development of hypertension.


From Bousheys Basic and Clinical Pharmacology:
Pharmacodynamics of Methylxanthines (caffeine is a methylxanthine)

The methylxanthines have effects on the central nervous system, kidney, and cardiac and skeletal muscle as well as smooth muscle. Of the three agents, theophylline is most selective in its smooth muscle effects, whereas caffeine has the most marked central nervous system effects.

Central Nervous System Effects

In low and moderate doses, the methylxanthines—especially caffeine—cause mild cortical arousal with increased alertness and deferral of fatigue. The caffeine contained in beverages—eg, 100 mg in a cup of coffee—is sufficient to cause nervousness and insomnia in sensitive individuals and slight bronchodilation in patients with asthma. The larger doses necessary for more effective bronchodilation commonly cause nervousness and tremor in some patients. Very high doses, from accidental or suicidal overdose, cause medullary stimulation and convulsions and may lead to death.

Cardiovascular Effects

The methylxanthines have positive chronotropic and inotropic effects. At low concentrations, these effects appear to result from inhibition of presynaptic adenosine receptors in sympathetic nerves increasing catecholamine release at nerve endings. The higher concentrations (more than 10 mol/L, 2 mg/L) associated with inhibition of phosphodiesterase and increases in cAMP may result in increased influx of calcium. At much higher concentrations (more than 100 mol/L), sequestration of calcium by the sarcoplasmic reticulum is impaired.

The clinical expression of these effects on cardiovascular function varies among individuals. Ordinary consumption of coffee and other methylxanthine-containing beverages usually produces slight tachycardia, an increase in cardiac output, and an increase in peripheral resistance, raising blood pressure slightly. In sensitive individuals, consumption of a few cups of coffee may result in arrhythmias. In large doses, these agents also relax vascular smooth muscle except in cerebral blood vessels, where they cause contraction.

Methylxanthines decrease blood viscosity and may improve blood flow under certain conditions. The mechanism of this action is not well defined, but the effect is exploited in the treatment of intermittent claudication with pentoxifylline, a dimethylxanthine agent. However, no evidence suggests that this therapy is superior to exercise conditioning.

Glossary by me
Chronotrope = makes heart beat faster (in absence of other effects increases BP)
Inotrope = makes heart contract harder (in absence of other effects increases BP)
Relaxation of vascular smooth muscle = arteries and veins dilate (in absence of other effects decreases BP)

[Rodda]

Re: Blood pressure & weight loss

Thanks for the input and the detailed report Pavoniboy. Most of it was over my head so appreciated your summary.
Capuchin, both systolic & diastolic. I was getting up around 160 / 90
and now run from 134/ 77 to 148/85.
I just finished my morning coffee [single shot] and took BP 10 mins later at 140/80, about average now days. So the morning coffee didnt seem to do too much harm.
Look forward to hearing any other observations.
Thundergod, i cant help wondering if you might benifit your slight weight problem by drinking more coffee unless of course like me you cant enjoy a cuppa without something to eat, like bikkies & cheese and chocolate cake.

[sameer]

Re: Blood pressure & weight loss

nice summary Pavoniboy

just a bit more about medicine and caffeine as a drug:

when given to very premature infants it can stimulate the respiratory centres in the brain telling the baby to breathe when the babys brain wasnt developed enough to do it on its own (apnoes of prematurity)

its also safer in infants, more readily available and cheaper than anything the drug companies have come up with!

(NEJM)
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/354/20/2112


something to think about when sipping your morning espresso

[Rodda]

Re: Blood pressure & weight loss

Sameer, any Idea what sort of dose would be used for a prem baby?

[BTunnicliffe]

Re: Blood pressure & weight loss

Its the amount of extra milk we seem to be consuming (10x the amount Id have in tea), but the biscuit consumption is about the same as before (before joining CS, that is)

Bruce

[Pavoniboy]

Re: Blood pressure & weight loss

...any Idea what sort of dose would be used for a prem baby?

From Thilo et al, CURRENT Diagnosis and Treatment: Paediatrics -

(Regarding treatment of idiopathic apnoea of prematurity)

"Caffeine citrate (20 mg/kg as loading dose and then 5–10 mg/kg/d) is the drug of choice. Side effects of caffeine include tachycardia and feeding intolerance. The dose used should be the smallest dose necessary to decrease the frequency of apnea and eliminate severe spells. Target drug level is usually 10–20 mcg/mL."

Me talking again:
I saw this treatment used many times in the neonatal high dependency unit whilst doing my paediatrics rotation a year ago. Made me think I should bring in my espresso machine and give those kids a more enjoyable way to administer their treatment

[redzone121]

Re: Blood pressure & weight loss

I think the only way to really tell would be to check your blood pressure before and after your daily cup of coffee

Looks like your doing this already, your numbers look good to me.
TG have you read "Overdosed America" and or " Surviving A Successful Heart Attack" both available through amazon.com

Bottom line only 1 in 10 people get any benefits from Statins but nearly all have some side effects.

Chris

[Pavoniboy]

Re: Blood pressure & weight loss

Bottom line only 1 in 10 people get any benefits from Statins but nearly all have some side effects.

Would have to question this stat(istic not statin)??? Not my experience so far in the General Practice I am in at the moment where we monitor everyone on a statin for wanted results and some of the nasty side effects that can occur. Cant be bothered looking up the proper latest research as am too busy learning what I need to learn, but I think you will find very different stats to this at least in the more recent statins.

Side effects can be a bummer in these drugs though.

[sameer]

Re: Blood pressure & weight loss

any Idea what sort of dose would be used for a prem baby?

that would depend on the weight and how premature the baby is.

also initally you would give a loading dose then a smaller dose daily through a drip. it gets a bit more complicated because prem babies can also have issues clearing drugs (immature kidneys and liver) and u have to adjust dosage accordingly.

but its generally less than the caffeine in a regular coffee (100mg)

(sorry mods bit off topic now!)

[redzone121]

Re: Blood pressure & weight loss

Drug company funded research? Good luck trying to find research that isnt tainted.
If you ever get time, have a read of "Surviving A Successful Heart Attack" by Mike Stone, as you suggest might be a bit stale date wise.

When America lowered their allowable levels in 2002 they overnight qualified 20% more of the population to pollute themselves with this toxic substance and of course boost the coffers (but as you say they may have a new improved formula)

Remember the anti inflamatory that was handed out (even free samples) by our GPs in 2003? Is was stamped and approved by the FDA and any other authority who needed to click their ticket. Next thing we know its causing heart attacks and its taken off the market......mmmm

But they said it had no side effects and didnt upset the stomach??? just caused heart attacks

Appreciate your point and position Pav

Chris

[Pavoniboy]

Re: Blood pressure & weight loss

Drug company funded research?

No, were well trained in questioning the potential interests of the researchers and funders. This was why I was saying cant be bothered looking up the research...could find drug company research in 10 seconds but to find reliable research will take me quite some time. Was questioning it on what we are seeing in monitoring patients at the moment.

As to the safety of drugs...my current preceptor has trained me (and I agree with him) to avoid new drugs when you can (Note, when you can - always a balancing act. If someone could die of their illness sooner rather than later, then worth discussing with them the new drugs that could help...but if they arent about to die, hold off on new drugs until they are well proven...I think its good advice.) Truth is the research done on drugs before they hit the shelves is really not that much. The real research is referred to as post marketing research - that is, put it on the shelves, have it prescribed to thousands or even millions and see what happens - then well know if its safe or not. Hence the drug you speak of being pulled for causing heart attacks - once they had sold it to enough people they were able to work out that this might not be so good :-[

I will keep that book in mind, but will be quite some time before I have the luxury of leisure reading...need to keep learning what I have to learn to make it through. Hell, coffeesnobs already takes up too much of my time, but hey we gotta have interests to keep us sane.