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  • #16
    Re: Consistent tamping

    I read the link in another thread that someone pointed to that spoke of tamping pressure http://cleanhotdry.com/coffee/basics-part-1-tamp/ and tried tamping with almost no pressure, simply polishing the surface of the coffee in the basket.

    I was very surprised to find that the dosed basket passed the upsidedown test and the resultant extraction looked very good. Unfortunately, the coffee tasted like crap. Im not sure if its me (I have very bad sinus at present) or if the blend isnt too good.

    Certainly, based on my very limited experiment, I now feel that the grind and dosing is more important than the tamp.

    Any others on this?
    T

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    • #17
      Re: Consistent tamping

      Originally posted by 300B0C1704160D630 link=1260003568/15#15 date=1260177406
      now feel that the grind and dosing is more important than the tamp.
      That has always been my opinion.

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      • #18
        Re: Consistent tamping

        Originally posted by 4A444946514746280 link=1260003568/16#16 date=1260180366
        Originally posted by 300B0C1704160D630 link=1260003568/15#15 date=1260177406
        now feel that the grind and dosing is more important than the tamp.
        That has always been my opinion.
        Indeed mine as well, for a long time now. Tamping is a good way of keeping things in general just clean. But in my experience, Dose + Grind > Tamping. All factors considered, the experience differs with your setup.

        But if I tamp 5kg, and pull a good shot and then tamp 10kg on the next and pull a good shot. What exactly does this tell me?

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        • #19
          Re: Consistent tamping

          Originally posted by 4344455142445742515E44300 link=1260003568/7#7 date=1260016549
          Since you have a Mini - and Im assuming you mean manual (ie. it has a doser) - you have a slight advantage here. Thats because the best way to dose consistently - incidentally killing the distribution bird with the same stone - is to fill the basket until its full (ie. full at the edges and mounded up in the middle). You then tap the handle on the bench (or something) X* number of times. Then, gently swipe the remaining "mounded" coffee back into your doser for the next dose (assuming itll be made immediately - otherwise chuck the grounds out) and tamp. Doesnt really matter how heavily you tamp, in my opinion; just make it consistent.
          I have been reading alot of opinions about distribution, leveling, weighing and tamping. On one website there was endless argument regarding the significance of each. I agree that the levelling  method described above will help significantly in achieving a consistent result in terms of dose and is an alternative to weighing every dose.

          As the owner of a Mazzer Mini E and therefore having a chute rather than a doser, using this levelling off method would result in significant waste over time. I was wondering what other owners of doserless grinders do? Do you use this technique and just cop the wasted grounds? What about baristas in a commercial environment with for example a Robur E...do they just rely on the timer or on their eye for comnsitent dosing or do they still level off and trash the remaining grinds?


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          • #20
            Re: Consistent tamping

            I use a Mahlkonig grind on demand grinder at work that grind by time straight into my basket.

            I find the dose very good but from time to time a small amount will roll off the top of the basket due to some slight clumping issues. No biggie!

            I take a grinds catching plate thingy and tip it into a tupperware container and use it in the morning to season the heads of my machine before running and drinking shots from it.

            Not that you would get a lot of wastage but its just a suggestion as to what you can use your excess grounds for after chemical flushing your machine?

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            • #21
              Re: Consistent tamping

              Originally posted by 40796769534B0C0 link=1260003568/19#19 date=1260191813
              I use a Mahlkonig grind on demand grinder at work that grind by time straight into my basket.

              I find the dose very good but from time to time a small amount will roll off the top of the basket due  to some slight clumping issues. No biggie!

              I take a grinds catching plate thingy and tip it into a tupperware container and use it in the morning to season the heads of my machine before running and drinking shots from it.

              Not that you would get a lot of wastage but its just a suggestion as to what you can use your excess grounds for after chemical flushing your machine?
              So I guess that means you tamp straight after dosing without levelling? I am thinking of getting the Mahlkonig K30...is  that the one you use at work? There are very few reviews of this grinder online. Have you tested the timers consistency by weighing the doses?

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              • #22
                Re: Consistent tamping

                I havnt done any weighing but ill take my scales to work and give it a test. It seems very consistant and from what i hear they have revised the chute and added a declumping device of some sort.

                I use the k30twin at work and have sole a couple of the k30singles to custamers. After setting them up i would have to say that they are a pretty good grinder but they have stepped adjustments on them so micro adjusting them isnt possible without removing the stepped mechanism.

                Its a large unit and almost overkill for a home set up despite Mahlkonigs excellent reliability and the fact it looks the part too.
                I would look at the Ditting Vario..a lot smaller and uses Mahlkonig internals and ceramic burrs. They are also grind on demand via timed and are also programable with 3 memory slots. best of all...they arent huge!

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                • #23
                  Re: Consistent tamping

                  Originally posted by 1A233D330911560 link=1260003568/21#21 date=1260193301
                  I havnt done any weighing but ill take my scales to work and give it a test. It seems very consistant and from what i hear they have revised the chute and added a declumping device of some sort.

                  I use the k30twin at work and have sole a couple of the k30singles to custamers. After setting them up i would have to say that they are a pretty good grinder but they have stepped adjustments on them so micro adjusting them isnt possible without removing the stepped mechanism.

                  Its a large unit and almost overkill for a home set up despite Mahlkonigs excellent reliability and the fact it looks the part too.
                  I would look at the Ditting Vario..a lot smaller and uses Mahlkonig internals and ceramic burrs. They are also grind on demand via timed and are also programable with 3 memory slots. best of all...they arent huge!
                  I think The two companies merged, so its called the Mahlkonig K30 or Ditting KE 640. I understand that the K30 "vario" model is stepless. I am looking to buy for a cafe in Phuket as my desired grinder Mazzer Robur is not sold here. Anyway be interesting to hear the result of the weight test!

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                  • #24
                    Re: Consistent tamping

                    OK I did some experimenting this morning and wasted a bit of coffee. I used the same grind and dosing method as per http://www.espressocompany.com.au/grinding-dosing-video.htm and used a variety of tamping pressure. Guess what.... the tamping pressure really didnt change the shot characteristics until I jumped up and down on my tamper ;D Seriously, until I used excessive pressure all my shots were pretty well the same.

                    So, what does that tell me???? Hmmm! I guess I learned something here and Ive sort of realised that tamping wasnt the issue in the first place.

                    What a world we live in now eh! If it hadnt been for technology and this site and all the obsessive souls that inhabit it, Id still be going around in circles.

                    Thanks all.
                    Tony

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                    • #25
                      Re: Consistent tamping

                      Originally posted by 4A71766D7E6C77190 link=1260003568/23#23 date=1260232366
                      OK I did some experimenting this morning and wasted a bit of coffee. I used the same grind and dosing method as per http://www.espressocompany.com.au/grinding-dosing-video.htm and used a variety of tamping pressure. Guess what.... the tamping pressure really didnt change the shot characteristics until I jumped up and down on my tamper  ;D  Seriously, until I used excessive pressure all my shots were pretty well the same.

                      So, what does that tell me???? Hmmm! I guess I learned something here and Ive sort of realised that tamping wasnt the issue in the first place.

                      What a world we live in now eh!  If it hadnt been for technology and this site and all the obsessive souls that inhabit it, Id still be going around in circles.

                      Thanks all.
                      Tony

                      The trick is getting the density the same..

                      My wife and daughter do not like to lean on the tamper and as they are vertically challenged (WRT the bench) ...  The answer for them / me (My excuse is that I am old) is a finer grind...

                      I have had others pop over.. Dose and tamp (the hulk in action and sweat beads on forearms) and then the machine chokes..

                      The go off and say grind is to fine... Need to have 20kg or it will not work..   I smile...  My daughter makes a shot and they comment as to how good the shot is...

                      It is the density and the restriction of the water flow...  Note... Grind size also affects the amount of swelling and thus dose level may also have to be managed..

                      2 + 2 = 5

                      Keep up teh good work... It is a rocky road is it not  

                      Maybe we need to catch up when I am up teh coast as it appears there are a fes CSs around teh sunshine coast..

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                      • #26
                        Re: Consistent tamping

                        Originally posted by 022D2426310E222D2224262E262D37430 link=1260003568/24#24 date=1260233640
                        Maybe we need to catch up when I am up teh coast as it appears there are a fes CSs around teh sunshine coast..
                        That would be nice, Id enjoy that.
                        Shoot me a PM if you want my contact details because we live up here almost permanently now.
                        Tony

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                        • #27
                          Re: Consistent tamping

                          Tamping becomes less of an issue when the particle size of the grind is adjusted as well as/along with the dosage.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Consistent tamping

                            0.3 grams is enough to change the dynamics of a pour. Ive done lots and lots of experimental work with grinder timers and measuring how much coffee goes in and how it affects the pour. Anything more than a 0.5 gram variance in dose is too much imho.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Consistent tamping

                              Should the puck have any impression of the showerscreen in it after a pour? Mine does but I dont have any trouble getting the group handle in to the head. The pours are still a little too fast though - 60ml in 20 seconds or less for a double shot.

                              Im guessing I should dose slightly less but adjust to a finer grind. Am I on the right track?

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                              • #30
                                Re: Consistent tamping

                                You should see an impression of the showerscreen so you should be dosing more and leaving the grind as is for the moment. Once you get the dose about right then adjust the grind to achieve the pour you are after. There is a lot more detailed info in the forum with a bit of reading, goodluck grasshopper it is a wonderful journey you have started.

                                I really do need to read others posts better :-[

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