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  • where to measure the shot

    I know that a good shot is 30 ml but when measuring that in a measuring jug should you look at the crema reaching the 30 ml line or the actual liquid with the crema above the line? Thanks for your replies.

  • #2
    Re: where to measure the shot

    The 30mL guideline includes the crema.

    If you want to be pedantic, you should ensure you are measuring from the level portion in the centre of the measure, not the tips, which may creep up the glass.

    Meniscus explanation

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    • #3
      Re: where to measure the shot

      Hi bib,

      The 30 ml shot is a *guideline* only, so dont get hung up on it. Coffee is about the taste. Many of us here like what is called a ristretto--or restricted shot--anything from a 50 ml double down to a 20 ml double. Try a variety for yourself and see where you prefer it.

      Generally the measure is of the whole shot--crema and all. HOWEVER, since the amount of crema depends on many variables: roast level, freshness, storage, the actual bean itself, etc. the size of the most tasty shot (for you) will vary.

      Greg

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      • #4
        Re: where to measure the shot

        Originally posted by 704552506058455A565B53370 link=1262824229/2#2 date=1262825385
        Hi bib,

        The 30 ml shot is a *guideline* only, so dont get hung up on it. Coffee is about the taste. Many of us here like what is called a ristretto--or restricted shot--anything from a 50 ml double down to a 20 ml double. Try a variety for yourself and see where you prefer it.

        Generally the measure is of the whole shot--crema and all. HOWEVER, since the amount of crema depends on many variables: roast level, freshness, storage, the actual bean itself, etc. the size of the most tasty shot (for you) will vary.

        Greg
        In addition the shot time starts from when you hit the switch / button etc...

        NOT from when the pour starts... AS TG said teh other day.. About 6 to 8 sec (APROX) from the start to when you expect to see the pour start.. BUT it is all variable due to coffee beans / freshness / tamp and basket size.

        2 + 2 = 5 = great coffee.

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        • #5
          Re: where to measure the shot

          Originally posted by 1D283F3D0D3528373B363E5A0 link=1262824229/2#2 date=1262825385
          The 30 ml shot is a *guideline* only, so dont get hung up on it. Coffee is about the taste.
          Absolutely! Youre better off spending your efforts watching the pour as it comes out. Try to achieve a runny honey consistency in the pour which starts to drip just before hitting the cup (see photo below). It can appears as if the coffee is bouncing and it turns from a pour to a drip (difficult to describe in words but you’ll know it when you see it).

          You also want to watch for a colour change in the pour; once it turns pale it should be stopped as all the ‘good stuff’ has been extracted. Continuing the shot will result in undesirables such as bitterness in the cup.

          Ive also found that when using a double spout, the 2 pours curve inwards towards each other when the colour change occurs. I guess it has something to do with change in density. Its something I picked up at the Sunbeam course I did last year. I found it to be quite obvious on my 6910 but not so much on the Giotto.

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          • #6
            Re: where to measure the shot

            Originally posted by 79565F5D4A755956595F5D555D564C380 link=1262824229/3#3 date=1262825794
            In addition the shot time starts from when you hit the switch / button etc...

            NOT from when the pour starts... AS TG said teh other day..  About 6 to 8 sec (APROX) from the start to when you expect to see the pour start..
            I have not been doing this, the e61 design has ~5 seconds of preinfusion at 4-5 bar so I have been going off the time that the brew pressure gauge kicks up to 10 bar.  Is that wrong?

            Ive also been using the 30 second rule mostly as a guide to how my grind/bean/tamp/etc. is, as I cut the pump when it starts to show signs of blonding regardless of the time.

            Liam

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            • #7
              Re: where to measure the shot

              Originally posted by 787D75797B140 link=1262824229/5#5 date=1262828463
              I have not been doing this, the e61 design has ~5 seconds of preinfusion at 4-5 bar so I have been going off the time that the brew pressure gauge kicks up to 10 bar.Is that wrong?
              What I said the other day was that counting the "pre-infusion" time and also the pour time is just adding one more variable to the mix.

              Originally posted by 787D75797B140 link=1262824229/5#5 date=1262828463
              Ive also been using the 30 second rule mostly as a guide to how my grind/bean/tamp/etc. is, as I cut the pump when it starts to show signs of blonding regardless of the time.
              This is good; just count 30 secs (approx) from when you start the pump.

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              • #8
                Re: where to measure the shot

                Originally posted by 696C64686A050 link=1262824229/5#5 date=1262828463
                Originally posted by 79565F5D4A755956595F5D555D564C380 link=1262824229/3#3 date=1262825794
                In addition the shot time starts from when you hit the switch / button etc...

                NOT from when the pour starts... AS TG said teh other day..  About 6 to 8 sec (APROX) from the start to when you expect to see the pour start..
                I have not been doing this, the e61 design has ~5 seconds of preinfusion at 4-5 bar so I have been going off the time that the brew pressure gauge kicks up to 10 bar.  Is that wrong?

                Ive also been using the 30 second rule mostly as a guide to how my grind/bean/tamp/etc. is, as I cut the pump when it starts to show signs of blonding regardless of the time.

                Liam
                Its whats in teh cup that counts...

                Many systems hav a pre infusion process BUT I still ignore and start from when I hit the switch.. The pre infusion is wetting the grinds and thus WATER is in contact with Coffee.

                Now, I am sure that some would / might state that the pre infusion changes things... But Does it and by how much... Any affect would not be liner... And I am not that anal to get my knickers in a knot over it...

                Start.. Watch and pull when happy... In general 25 to 30 sec (give or take a few sec) and about 50ml or their abouts for MY double basket in MY current system..

                If I get it right 2 + 2 = 5 and I get great coffee... Sometimes I get 2 + 2 = 4 and then the coffee is only OK..

                4 out of 3 people can not do fractions ;D

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                • #9
                  Re: where to measure the shot

                  Originally posted by 6E41484A5D624E414E484A424A415B2F0 link=1262824229/7#7 date=1262830166
                  Its whats in teh cup that counts...
                  Agreed, and like I said I use the coloour of the shot as my guide to when to stop the pour, the timing is more of a control measure.

                  4 out of 3 people can not do fractions  ;D
                  Thats the most rational thing Ive read on this forum :P

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                  • #10
                    Re: where to measure the shot

                    Wow heaps of advice. Many thanks.

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