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  • #16
    Re: Helping the local cafe

    Originally posted by 5D617C676D6C7B6E666D090 link=1264727371/14#14 date=1264894584
    Originally posted by 446B62607748646B64626068606B71050 link=1264727371/9#9 date=1264800689
    I am sure that the Quality people here would be shocked...
    Yep.
    (I swear Id already replied but my post seems to have vanished.)

    Originally posted by 41606B6B6C76050 link=1264727371/6#6 date=1264766148
    If he felt there was an issue he would have addressed it long before you happened to walk through the door.
    Im with Dennis on this one.

    Originally posted by 71647664616468050 link=1264727371/13#13 date=1264892229
    With the best coffee in that town yet with so many things that can be easily improved, theres great potential.  
    Hes got the best coffee in town.
    Whats his motivation to meet the expectations of a blow-in (you)?


    Agreed thundergod, so why tell him?? Like i said, wait until he is searching. As the saying goes You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink...

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Helping the local cafe

      Originally posted by 7945584349485F4A42492D0 link=1264727371/14#14 date=1264894584
      Hes got the best coffee in town.
      Whats his motivation to meet the expectations of a blow-in (you)?
      Money, for him.
      For starters, full cream milk will (I find) give a sweeter smoother drink, and its easier to foam, and its cheaper.
      Better coffee = busier business = recommendations = more coin in his pocket.

      OK Lets see if it fits, heres the draft letter...
      No, doesnt fit. New post coming, stand by...

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Helping the local cafe

        Many coffee shops could learn from this, and Im no expert.

        xxxx is it? I met you in the cafe on the weekend.
        You may think me a smart ass, I don’t care. Whether you take any of this on board or whether you are happy doing what you are doing, I don’t care either, to a point. One day I will be back in xxx and short of anything better in xxxxx, I will be back to buy your coffee again. Yes I do believe you currently have the best coffee in xxxx.So let’s make it better. It isn’t hard, and it’s in your interests.
        What’s in this for me? Nothing, short of hopefully showing you the coffee nirvana that awaits you on the other side of a learning curve and a few changes. What’s in it for you?
        More money because of more coffee sales, a great reputation, and if word gets out that your coffee is that much better, they’ll soon learn about your great (local food of fame) and other food as well. More sales.
        Want proof about good coffee? I am prepared to come to xxxxx some time, with my home machine (not a toy) and grinder and my freshly roasted beans and my real tamping tool, and give you a taste of what is possible. It is so much better, you would not believe unless you have tasted great, fresh coffee elsewhere.
        1. The (link to home-barista info)... There’s heaps of other info on that site too. The document is written in America, and is designed primarily to assist the home user step up to the plate with what should be the norm in a commercial coffee making environment (a cafe or coffee shop). While the entire document is not completely relevant to you, you may find it as interesting and educational to read as I did when I was learning.
        2. You need a real tamping tool. It is the single biggest change you can make to your coffee making. They are not expensive for an off-the-shelf one from a kitchen supply shop,  probably about $50. A really good one that looks great is a little over $100. Have a look at http://www.coffeetamper.com.au/ and also read the literature on that site here - http://www.coffeetamper.com.au/information/faq.html
        A short extract if you don’t bother looking at that site –
        <first paragraph from link, edited out to save space here>
        (And on it goes, have a read...)
        3. Why skinny milk? It makes no sense. I make my coffee with <local milk brand> (tastes better than <other brand&gt full cream milk. You’re in a business – full cream milk is somewhat cheaper than skinny milk. So there’s a saving straight off. Then you’ve got the ability to produce consistent microfoam for your milk based drinks, thus allowing you to get into the world of latte art.
        When I was there, I could not produce good latte art for a few reasons, not least of which is because you use skinny milk. If customers want skinny milk like a skinny flat white or a skinny latte, let them ask for it. Your taste suffers too, the coffee taste mixes with the full cream milk better, it tastes sweeter, smoother. And if an element of your coffee making is not spot on, it’s more easily disguised in full cream milk than in skinny milk. Don’t take my word for it, go do some research.
        4. You say your grinder is a pig to set up and you don’t like to touch it. Yet, it is necessary to adjust the grind occasionally, only slightly, to keep things consistent.  It’s a capable grinder, but you are not using it to its potential. Does it have a problem? How old are the burrs in it? They are replaceable and there are a number of shops on the mainland that will sell you burrs and tell you how to change them. Things like changes in humidity in the air can mean a small grinder adjustment is necessary if you want to get that particular about it. When you look at it, you use the same beans, you would assumingly tamp the same way each time (particularly after obtaining a tamping tool), the machine is set up at the right temperature and things are clean all the time, so the only variable (apart from the weight applied to the tamping tool), is the size of the grind. Tamp consistently – keep it level and press down with the same amount of firmness each time, a quick twist to polish the top of the puck (called so because it looks like an ice hockey puck), then the only difference will be the size of the grind. Being able to tweak the grinder is very important. Also, I notice you only grind as you need the coffee – well done! Ground coffee loses its best after about 3 minutes, so grind as you need and you will be doing things well.
        5. Your milk jugs are the wrong shape for precise latte art and they should always be kept clean. If you go on to youtube and search for latte art, you will find heaps of demonstrations on latte art pouring. There’s also a site with videos, for the World Latte Art and Barista championship. Australia does very well in this, and I know one of the competitors from Melbourne, she got 2nd in the world last year in Copenhagen. Latte Art should be a standard skill of a good barista. Serving a coffee with a bit of art on the microfoam will impress your customers.
        6. Talking about coffees served in the cafe... Fill the cup. Several times I received a cup that was down by as much as a centimetre when it was served. It makes no sense why. To a tourist from the coffee yuppie scene of Sydney or Melbourne, you will look like you are trying to rip them off or something. If it is because your staff cannot carry them without slopping some in the saucer, get them to practice. Fill a couple of cups to the correct level and get them to carry them up the street to the <landmark> and back, the one that gets the furthest without spilling any in the saucer gets to go home an hour early, it’s not a race – doesn’t matter how long to carry it, it’s about learning to carry it steady, which they will do with practice. Or maybe there’s another reason why the tide is low in the cup. Lack of experience by the maker I suspect.
        7. Are you the owner of your machine, or do you have it cheap because you are locked into sourcing your coffee beans from one supplier? I hope you are not locked in. This gives you the greatest opportunity for change to something great – FRESH coffee. Coffee such as xxxx, xxxx, xxxx, many others (certainly ALL the supermarket ones), all are roasted overseas and shipped to Australia in vacuum sealed bags. The rule of 3’s. 3 years, 3 weeks and 3 minutes, this is how long green beans, roasted beans, and ground beans will last respectively. Green beans, which is what I buy, is the raw product. I roast my own, every couple of weeks. I will have anywhere between 2 and 4 different types of beans roasted at any one time, and will blend by putting a handful of this and a handful of that into the grinder. They are kept in airtight tins, not in the fridge. Roasted coffee beans only last a few weeks before they are past their prime. It is sad that all the coffee imported into Australia by the “popular” brands, will be stale, or at least past its prime, before it even touches out shores.  There are quite a number of excellent commercial coffee roasting companies in Australia, and they can roast and send you beans as often as you need them. I don’t know what you pay for beans, but the difference will be minimal compared to the quality of what’s in the cup. An espresso shot is often undrinkable because it tastes burnt / acidic / sour / ashtray / rancid. A good espresso shot will taste smooth and sweet, natural sweetness from the coffee bean. It is achieved in the roasting process (assuming the coffee is made correctly), when the natural sugars in the coffee bean are roasting, they caramelise and eventually crystallise, and they will burn if the coffee is roasted too far.

        When the coffee is roasted correctly, these crystallised sugars in the bean will pass their character into the espresso shot, and you’re now looking at a pretty smooth taste. Have you ever had an espresso shot you could call “smooth”?
        Before you consider changing beans, you really need to get some other things sorted out. Get the tamping tool, get some reading done to see what changes you can make to get the consistency thing going (being able to repeat consistent shots of coffee). Once you are happy with the improvements, and you have learnt to manage the grinder (if everything else is consistent, the grinder is the only thing to adjust), you are then ready to experiment with different beans. Fresh beans. Correctly roasted beans.

        The written word can come across as being fairly aggressive or blunt. Sorry about that, I write it as it comes out, I tend to go on a bit, but everything I have said here is factual.

        I hope I have given you something to look forward to and that I have not insulted you. As I said at the start, I believe you have the best coffee I have tried in xxxxxx. So let’s make
        it better. Let’s make your coffee something that is good enough to recommend to coffee connoisseurs on an internet site. People WILL seek you out with such a recommendation. But it needs to be earned. And again, it isn’t that difficult, just a matter of learning, and wanting to make the changes necessary to achieve your true coffee potential. I wish you, most sincerely, the best of luck.
        Adam.
        PS That coffee I made, it was sitting for a good few minutes while we chatted then you served it. I was on the brink of paying you for it (and tipping it out) so that you can make your paying customer a fresh cup. As soon as it’s made, serve it. Things like that will be evident to someone who knows about coffee, the way the crema in a cup blends with the latte art pattern in the milk, and the longer it sits, the more it changes.
        I did not cover temperature of the drink in this write up, I believe you are doing that well. Remember that milk proteins are curdled once the milk goes above 74 degrees and it is ruined. And don’t tell <person at other coffee shop> that, you will always be in front. I burnt my tongue on a coffee <at other coffee shop> & came to you for a takeaway. I don’t like takeaway but sometimes it is necessary.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Helping the local cafe

          A few general hints for the letter if I may:

          Its a great idea to follow up with a letter.

          Take out all the stuff about not caring or caring--if you didnt care you certainly wouldnt be doing all of this--actions speak louder than words.

          Start with the positives you noticed, then the negatives and the suggested changes, and finish with more positives--a sort of "sandwich letter".

          Positively constructed statements go directly to the point--negatives go through the back door and start where you dont want to be.

          Your level of commitment from a casual visit is amazing, I hope it gets the results youd like.

          Greg

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Helping the local cafe

            Just a quick note that good content but you might want to be a bit more concise. As someone who runs a small business if I was to be sent this letter I would probably look at it and put it in the "read later" pile as I am short of time today (and every day) and may never get back to it.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Helping the local cafe

              Originally posted by 63564143734B5649454840240 link=1264727371/18#18 date=1264904442
              A few general hints for the letter if I may:

              Its a great idea to follow up with a letter.

              Take out all the stuff about not caring or caring--if you didnt care you certainly wouldnt be doing all of this--actions speak louder than words.

              Start with the positives you noticed, then the negatives and the suggested changes, and finish with more positives--a sort of "sandwich letter".

              Positively constructed statements go directly to the point--negatives go through the back door and start where you dont want to be.

              Your level of commitment from a casual visit is amazing, I hope it gets the results youd like.

              Greg
              Good ideas, thanks. As I said in it, I write it as it comes out. So I will address this before i send it. My good deed for the coffee appreciating community of that town.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Helping the local cafe

                Originally posted by 5441534144414D200 link=1264727371/17#17 date=1264903808
                everything I have said here is factual
                Originally posted by 5441534144414D200 link=1264727371/17#17 date=1264903808
                I tend to go on a bit
                I agree with both quotes.



                Maybe you could revise it to a shorter version. e.g.

                Originally posted by 5441534144414D200 link=1264727371/17#17 date=1264903808
                (called so because it looks like an ice hockey puck)
                does this really need to be there?



                If youre determined to try, go for it! But try to keep it as short and sweet as you can; dont hit him with all guns blazing up front.

                Maybe shorten it to what you consider the most important bits; keep in the positive things hes doing and then throw in that offer to go back with your equipment and demonstrate.

                If you get that far he can ask for more detail.





                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Helping the local cafe

                  From my experience, people will only learn if they are interested in whats being tought. So..either make it interesting or tell them to jog on if they loose focus.

                  The problem with a large number of cafes is that either their customers tell them they are good OR being trained by a barista for a short period of time...they think they know all there is to know. Its the later type that never get better unless they figure it our for themselves.

                  My advice would be....go back in for a coffee, see if they have made any improvements and above all....see how this person receives you this time around. If they remember you(which they should) then ask them how its all going...maybe they will ask you for your opinion on something and your behind the machine again

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Helping the local cafe

                    Originally posted by 7945584349485F4A42492D0 link=1264727371/21#21 date=1264905345
                    tasadam wrote on Today at 13:10:
                    (called so because it looks like an ice hockey puck)
                    does this really need to be there?
                    Definitely!

                    The notion that a coffee puck is named after an ice hockey puck is nothing more than an urban legend. In fact, the coffee puck is named after the character "Puck", aka Pook, Robin Goodfellow and Hobgoblin, as in Shakespeares, "A Midsummer Nights Dream".

                    I believe this because when we are introduced to Puck in that play (Act II, Scene I) one of Titanias fairies begins by saying, "Either I mistake your shape..." and goes on to say, "And sometime make the drink to bear no barm". Barm meaning foam, ergo crema.

                    Im also sure that somewhere in that same play the fairies skate on ice - linking Puck the character to the game. If this is incorrect, then it is probable that the origin of the ice hockey puck came about when a group of school aged ice-hockey players were taken on excursion by their English teacher (I kid you not, mine was called Mrs. Kletzmayer) to see the play. These same students then went to play their game of hockey and while hitting what was then called, "the oversized black draught game piece", one of the players exclaimed, "Im giving this a blow". Now in Irish, a blow is a poc, and you can probably figure out the rest.

                    So there you go. You now know the origins of the coffee puck according to Dennis, who has miraculously taken this topic into OT oblivion. ;D

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Helping the local cafe

                      Far out! Ive liked both coffee and Shakespeare for a long time and I never knew that!

                      Shine on, Dennis.

                      L

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Helping the local cafe

                        Originally posted by 7A6F7D6F6A6F630E0 link=1264727371/11#11 date=1264804203
                        Thanks for taking the time to read my topic.
                        The thing is, its so SO hard to get a good coffee in Tasmania. Only a few places that I can go and actually enjoy a coffee.
                        I know how you feel we were in Tassie in 2007 summer holidays and found good coffee very hard to find.
                        I tried to make suggestions on making the milk a bit cooler not boiling, and the foam not bubbly, but two or three times got told thats how our customers like it.

                        I had a good takeaway in Bicheno one day went back next day different girl pouring coffee. I got a boiling hot latte.
                        Originally posted by 4F60696B7C436F606F696B636B607A0E0 link=1264727371/9#9 date=1264800689
                        Re: Helping the local cafe
                        Reply #9 - 30. Jan 2010 at 08:31 martybean wrote on 30. Jan 2010 at 06:18:
                        Tasdam, I generally say nothing to the barista or manager, if the coffee is bad, but leave a half or three quarter full cup on the table.

                        I will however say something if the food is just not good enough.

                        AND

                        Barrack wrote on 30. Jan 2010 at 07:59:
                        Martybean, likewise for me. I am not arrogant or rude enough 2 say something ( and scared ) but i always leave a coffee half drunk if its bad!!

                        I am sure that the Quality people here would be shocked...

                        Quote:
                        I am not arrogant or rude enough 2 say something
                        I have been told by my wife that at times I can come across a bit rude when I have said something .
                        I think I lack a bit of tact.

                        Goodluck Tasadam with helping this cafe, who knows you might inspire some more of us to try and help other cafes.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Helping the local cafe

                          Theres a place I go locally with the kids ciz its family friendly and Ive had good coffee there in the past but since the main Barista left 3 months ago Ive struggled to get a good coffee. I can pretty much identify the faults off the bat: underdosing, no wiping out the basket between shots, no flushing the group head between extractions, or grinding to order - but these guys are always busy due to location

                          so what I did was bypass the cafe and go straight to the roaster direct saying that the machine needed maintenance and the staff needed training - long and short of it was that when I went back last week my first coffee was excellent (I watched it being made) but my second two were increasingly worse with my last one undrinkable (different Barista not much of a clue)

                          what can I say?

                          I gave it my best shot I wont be drinking coffee from there again until there has been a noticeable change (if and when that happens)

                          as for me Id much rather get some productive feedback than a half empty cup and I train my staff to zero in on customers who are slow to drink their coffees in case there is a problem!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Helping the local cafe

                            Ive been to new places sometimes because they have a go9od reputation for food and then have to decide if Ill try the coffee.

                            I remember one time getting a table with a birds eye view of the coffee machine.
                            Noticing Id finished my breakfast, one of the baristas asked if I was going to have a coffee (never let a chance go by; good on him).
                            I told him I was thinking about it and said Id watch for a while then decide (pressure).
                            He did everything right but one thing bothered me; the steam wand chrome had been eaten away and didnt look the best.
                            We had a discussion around it and he had a few excuses regarding the quality of the part but he took it all well.
                            I cant remember now whether or not I ended up trying a coffee (the food was excellent) but he understood my reservations and we parted on good terms.

                            What Im getting at is those that care, like we do, will take the feedback well.
                            To others, a coffee is just another stock item they sell.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Helping the local cafe

                              Originally posted by 7F435E454F4E594C444F2B0 link=1264727371/27#27 date=1265082230
                              What Im getting at is those that care, like we do, will take the feedback well.
                              To others, a coffee is just another stock item they sell.
                              This represents my view as well

                              In most establishments coffee is just another stock item they sell

                              KK

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Helping the local cafe

                                Originally posted by 4B6F666665655F4B6F736D6F000 link=1264727371/28#28 date=1265082534
                                In most establishments coffee is just another stock item they sell
                                And if its not up to scratch, I want that item to come under the "not suitable for the purpose claimed" clause. >

                                Take it back and get a refund.

                                Greg

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