I just got naked, help me diagnose my problems

[maheel]

So over the weekend i took a hacksaw, file, grinder and other implements and made a naked  group handle. It still needs some work but its OK.

its my 1st naked at home experience and i have only pulled about 10 shots with it so far.

so i think i have  dosing, tamping, channeling issue, the pour is hanging to the edges leaving some of the middle "not extracting" to very late in the pour. I would describe as channeling in a circle around the edge then it "moves" inwards. I dont often get the pour to centralize and get "multi pours" kind if dripping.

the top of the puck is not busted up on top, to suggest big channels.

I think my dose is OK, I get a nice screw mark in the top of the puck.
last few pours i have been doing a EWNS chop to even it out more than i would normally. Might be able to updose a little more but very small.

Tamper is very good fit, not Pullman fit but very close and tight.
Tamp weight is not what i call heavy, maybe i should go harder in the tamp?

beans are fresh, home roasted 5 days ago, through my near new Sjolly.... and the coffee tastes good to me as espresso but always looking to improve

whats your opinion on what i need to adjust in the 1st stage of change?

if you know a good video to watch, hit me with the links

thanks
Leeham

[Thundergod]

Re: I just got naked, help me diagnose my problems

Just go a tiny bit courser on the grind and leave everything else the same.

Doesnt sound like channelling to me, just too fine a grind.

[flynnaus]

Re: I just got naked, help me diagnose my problems

Just go a tiny bit courser on the grind

Things are getting grim - TG is making spelling mistakes

[javabeen]

Re: I just got naked, help me diagnose my problems

Welcome to the nudist colony (sorry I couldnt help myself)  ;D

I figure that if the pour is starting from the outside and moving in it would suggest side channeling ie too much resistance from the puck surface so the water makes its way down the sides till the puck finally succumbs and lets water thru.

This would imply either too fine a grind or too high a dose. So play around with your dose/grind and see what you prefer the taste of.

Javabeen.

[Luke_G]

Re: I just got naked, help me diagnose my problems

Alternatively...

Partial channeling around the outside of the basket can come from a wet basket when dosing. This wets the outer edges of the puck and allows a path for the water to travel with least resistence at the beginning of a pour.

Either that or what TG said.
I found when i nakedised my first handle that i had this happen to me. Like TG sugested...back the grind off a little bit or try tamping a little lighter

[Thundergod]

Re: I just got naked, help me diagnose my problems

Just go a tiny bit courser on the grind

Things are getting grim - TG is making spelling mistakes

I obviously meant to swear at it gently. :

[maheel]

Re: I just got naked, help me diagnose my problems

Alternatively... can come from a wet basket when dosing.

sometimes guilty of this..... :

thanks guys, went a little coarser and improved the extraction across the basket. next few shot i intend to creep a bit tighter, but all the bean factors come into play during the day (temp, humidity.. etc etc)

going naked does give another great visual clue,
but now i have to build a tamper holder as the handle is a angle down not flat and is hard to tamp consistently on a flat bench.

[bjeck14]

Re: I just got naked, help me diagnose my problems

Just out of interest, when you improved your naked extraction, was there a taste difference?

[maheel]

Re: I just got naked, help me diagnose my problems

well i am only a few shots in so its hard to judge and may be gradual improvements (and may not be any change). I also just started a new bag of SO beans, so taste changed to the prior bean.

In my mind i am using the naked as a "tool" and gives me a better understanding of what i am doing. (cause and effect)

But i think my roasting has gotten better and my shots as a whole have improved, the super jolly over the RR45 I feel has made a big dif but again the roasts have improved as well. So i consider it a overall improvement to my process.

I did think the 1st couple of shots were "real good" but it may have been the excitment of a new toy.....

[friskhr]

Re: I just got naked, help me diagnose my problems

This a good article diagnosing a bottomless portafilter

http://www.home-barista.com/naked-extraction.html

..admin: not sure about posting links of such nature. Please remove if it is inappropriate ..

[Dimal]

Re: I just got naked, help me diagnose my problems

..admin: not sure about posting links of such nature. Please remove if it is inappropriate ..

No problem mate.... 8-)

Home Barista is a great resource and often referred to here on CS....

Mal.

[luca]

Re: I just got naked, help me diagnose my problems

Leeham,

I think that people make a lot of presumptions in brewing espresso that are not necessarily the case. The goal is to make the coffee taste better, not to make the pour look better. By all means collect information by looking at the pour, but do make sure that you are making adjustments based on taste and not on looks.

When we first started playing around with naked portafilters five or so years ago, Greg Kaan came up with an excellent hypothesis that everyone who uses a naked portafilter should be aware of: pours with bottomless portafilters have more air in them, so if you dont compensate by extracting more volume, the taste difference can actually be attributed to a change in extraction ratio (ie. the naked shot being more "ristretto").

Cheers,
Luca

[maheel]

Re: I just got naked, help me diagnose my problems

words.....
Cheers,
Luca

Hi Luca

Thanks Luca, I always like reading your well balanced posts and can understand where your coming from. Myself having limited experience really in coffee and what I consider a limited palate I guess I am just trying to get the "best" from my shots.

The naked (for me) is really just being used as a tool to try to ensure the extractions (my dose / tamp / grind) look right. I feel my coffee taste is OK (to you it may be dirty dish water) but of course it can always do with improvement.

Your comment about the extra air in the shot is interesting as i thought that i had noticed a change to the crema, what i would have described as more "air" in it. Actually what i thought gave it a great buttery mouth feel.

thanks again for the input

Leeham