ristretto vs short black

[guv]

Hi All

Sorry for the noob question but whats the difference between a ristretto and a short black?

finder grind + shortened extraction = ristretto?
espresso grind + normal extraction = short black?

Seems to be conflicting information out there on the net.

Any tips/advice apreciated.

Andrew

[3fun]

Re: ristretto vs short black

The ristretto tends to be a finer grind or a harder/firmer tamp, just in a way to allow less water then normal flow through in the same amount of time. For both you are aiming for 25-30 seconds of extraction time, but with a short black around 30mls(for a single) and 15mls give or take for a ristretto depending on your tastes.

[blanyon]

Re: ristretto vs short black

Depends on your definition, I take the definition of a ristretto as 20mls in about 20 sec rather than 20mls in 30sec. I find the tighter extraction can lead to ashyness and is really hard to nail consistently.

[beanflying]

Re: ristretto vs short black

Problem is that the modern pump machine version is different to the classic lever machine version.

In Australia if you ask for a short black what you normally get back is a single shot Espresso at 25-30ml made from 7-9g of beans and extracted in 25-30 seconds.

Seems that the general idea here of a doppio Ristretto is a short pour 25-40 ml depending on the user) using generally a double basket and a finer grind. This actually bears little to no resembalance to a Ristratto in the classic sense so perhaps a different name should be used.

A good idea of what a classic Ristretto is here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ristretto

[Wine_of_the_Bean]

Re: ristretto vs short black

Since I tend to dose normal - under, I dont need to really adjust grind to produce a ristretto. I simply dose a bit more to pull a tighter shot.

[guv]

Re: ristretto vs short black

thanks for the responses - looks like I have some experimenting to do.

[Justin_Boyle]

Re: ristretto vs short black

Is it actually possible to reproduce a ristretto on a modern pump machine. From what I can understand nothing in the process changes with the exception that the lever is pulled faster and presumably the pressure is higher. Without being able to modify brew pressure this cannot be replicated. Do the other methods mimic a ristretto accurately?

Would be nice to have a lever machine or a presso to see the difference.

[roknee]

Re: ristretto vs short black

i guess find what works taste wise.
i think generally ppl prefer ristretto pulls b/c they tend to be more viscous, heavy and sweet.

as already posted above, there are different ways to come to the same measurement outcome.
-pull a normal double shot, both spouts in your demi, cut the shot short
- pull a tighter shot by grinding finer (sometimes not really do-able if you pull your spro real tight anyway)
- dose higher (maybe collapse one more time if theres headpsace)

[joel_markus]

Re: ristretto vs short black

i think generally ppl prefer ristretto pulls b/c they tend to be more viscous, heavy and sweet.

Amen to that... :P