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  • good looking shot then it goes haywire...

    Hi Guys/Gals...

    First day with my newly naked parta-filter, Just wondering what would cause the following during a shot...

    It looked like it was going pretty well comming thru looking nice and thick and dark looking from about 5-15 seconds then it stopped and started comming from a different place in the filter for about a second there was no stream... any ideas?

    Lots to learn with the naked PF, the shot above what the 4th one in an attempt to get a good shot - i drank it but was just a little bitter... Beans are 1 week old espresso wow ground in EM0480...

    Cheers.

  • #2
    Re: good looking shot then it goes haywire...

    Search for extraction problems on google, photos posted here are a good way for someone to attempt to diagnose problems, photos of shots at different invervals, with maybe a timer in the photo, showing how far into the shot you are, and some puck pics too may help, words alone are hard to diagnose....

    Best of luck!

    Cheers
    Warren

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: good looking shot then it goes haywire...

      One of, if not the best one stop shop shot diagnosis references is on Home-Barista.com in the How To section.

      [link]http://www.home-barista.com/naked-extraction.html[/link]

      Shooting and unbalanced streams usually denotes channelling but having the flow stop mid-extraction is very unusual. Cant say Ive ever seen that!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: good looking shot then it goes haywire...

        Thanks for that link... soo much reading in there! Hopefully my shots improve in the comming days, otherwise Ill try the photo option...

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: good looking shot then it goes haywire...

          Originally posted by 6D58414B1F1E280 link=1276495114/2#2 date=1276499578
          Home-Barista.com in the How To section.
          So true... But the 4 Ms are the true keys... Item 2 and 3 could be swapped if ya ask me..

          The principle elements of making espresso are captured in four Italian words:

          1: Mano delloperatore (hand of the operator)
          2: Macinadosatore (grinder-doser)
          3: Miscela (coffee blend)
          4: Macchina espresso (espresso machine).

          Each of these elements plays an important role and the strength in one rarely compensates entirely for the weakness in another.

          Some how it is all to often the perception that it is teh machine that comes first..

          Originally posted by 6B4944445D45280 link=1276495114/0#0 date=1276495114
          It looked like it was going pretty well comming thru looking nice and thick and dark looking from about 5-15 seconds then it stopped and started comming from a different place in the filter for about a second there was no stream... any ideas?
          What machine ?

          You could have choked it fully... Vibe Pump valve letting go... Air pocket / divert / Channelling etc etc

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: good looking shot then it goes haywire...

            Originally posted by 416E6765724D616E6167656D656E74000 link=1276495114/4#4 date=1276512822

            What machine ?  

            You could have choked it fully... Vibe Pump valve letting go...  Air pocket / divert / Channelling etc etc
            Machine is a breville cafe roma - so no adjustments possible :-/

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: good looking shot then it goes haywire...

              Originally posted by 062429293028450 link=1276495114/5#5 date=1276513089
              Originally posted by 416E6765724D616E6167656D656E74000 link=1276495114/4#4 date=1276512822

              What machine ?  

              You could have choked it fully... Vibe Pump valve letting go...  Air pocket / divert / Channelling etc etc
              Machine is a breville cafe roma - so no adjustments possible  :-/  
              Oooo  Not sure of the internals and any bypass valves  etc.. But could be that you choking it...

              Some of the vibe pumps do have a OPV built in.. ( Latest Sunbeam 6910 steam pumps etc...  Shushssssssss Some do not come calibrated and thus give poor steam..)

              Thus if ya maxing out; the pause could be just the internal opv dropping pressure...

              Remember.. Do not go off the numbers.. You will only confuse ya self...

              Freash beans /  Right grind / Dose / Tamp and the rest is all a rule of thumb..

              ABOUT / APROX   25 ml in 25 - 30 sec  may  or may not be OK..  

              But the trick is to try whats in the cup.. If good... All is good.

              If it chokes  or runs to fast or tastes like crap... Change something..

              Remember Bigger and Harder is not always better...

              If ya get a great cup at  23.4567 Sec and measures 26.546ml  Who is going to notice....  Its what in the cup that counts..

              Remember Rule number one... If in doubt always go back to rule number one..

              RuleS

              1: Its what in the cup that counts..

              2: 2 + 2 = 5

              3: The 4 Ms

              4: See rule 1

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: good looking shot then it goes haywire...

                Thanks AM,

                After my readings last night I need to work on the dose and distribution for sure, I pulled a shot this morning using the Weiss distribution method - stiring with a needle to get rid of clumps. I was also bashing the PF too much so now I am sticking to only 1 light tap with the tamper after tampering.

                Shot was a bit better but still thin and inconsistent, grinder setting was at the coarse end for espresso so I have tightened it 2 clicks for the mid morning shot...

                Buring thru some coffee think i better go order some more!!

                Thanks Again.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: good looking shot then it goes haywire...

                  Originally posted by 14363B3B223A570 link=1276495114/7#7 date=1276552894
                  1 light tap with the tamper after tampering.
                  I wish people would not do that...

                  WHY... It does little other than shout to others near by "Hey look at me "..

                  You can tap the group on the matt or give it a pat with ya hand etc a few times.. That is all that is needed to settle teh grinds...

                  Every group I see at the moment is bashed to bits and I fail to understand why ?

                  The last one I sanded back and then got re chromed, because it was such a mess.. And that was for an EM6910...

                  Also went to pick up a Tamper from a mate who got it from a café.. They use the edge and the bottom to tap (BASH) the group handle / groups etc...

                  The tamp was good for teh bin.. Hate to see what the groups looked like...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: good looking shot then it goes haywire...

                    Originally posted by 507F7674635C707F7076747C747F65110 link=1276495114/8#8 date=1276560868
                    I wish people would not do that...
                    Mornin AM, have to admit Im a tamper tapper and always have been, I find nothing wrong with the practice and see no down side to it.
                    Having said that, my Reg Barber tamper has a Delrin insert (see pic) on the top of the handle specifically for this purpose, so, no noise and no damage to the PF.
                    Mind you tapping with the actual tamper base seems a little bizarre.

                    Works for me.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: good looking shot then it goes haywire...

                      Ok... I wont do it  ;D

                      Only did it because it was mentioned to in the home barista articles I was reading...

                      I just pulled the second shot for the day, another improvement on the first - still far from perfect. After tamping though the puck was lower toward the back of the basket than the front, I pulled it anyway to see what would happen the front of the basket flowed more freely and blonded quick - I guess thats to be expected with the lop sided tamp :-/

                      Another thousand shots of refinement and maybe Ill be close :-/

                      This is the best tasting coffee I have had from the machine so far

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: good looking shot then it goes haywire...

                        Originally posted by 22000D0D140C610 link=1276495114/7#7 date=1276552894
                        1 light tap with the tamper after tampering
                        I hope that reads differently to what you meant.
                        After tamping you dont want to disturb the puck, just pull the shot.
                        If you really are tapping after tamping you can be fracturing the puck and introducing channelling.

                        Originally posted by 724E475F4A2B0 link=1276495114/9#9 date=1276564013
                        Im a tamper tapper and always have been, I find nothing wrong with the practice and see no down side to it.
                        Jon, considering my reply above, please explain in detail when and what you tap.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: good looking shot then it goes haywire...

                          Ohh I like the look of that Old JW, especially the box to put the PF in - would help my uneven tampering out! My PF doesnt sit flat on the bench because it still has some knubs on the bottom... Thinking I might take the dremel to them...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: good looking shot then it goes haywire...

                            Originally posted by 013D203B313027323A31550 link=1276495114/11#11 date=1276565142
                            please explain in detail when and what you tap.
                            Oh Oh, Ive just received a please explain. ;D

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: good looking shot then it goes haywire...

                              Oh dear, time to own up.  I have always been a compulsive tapper.  Logically, tapping must disturb the coffee bed at the sides of the basket.  In my defence Im also compulsive analyst of coffee cookies on the lookout for channeling and other crimes against extraction.  Remember - the cookie never lies.

                              Comment

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