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  • #16
    Re: FAIRTRADE coffee discussion.... Again!

    I disagree with your post, beanflying. As I said in my previous post, fairtrade wasnt created because of small roasters who are willing to pay a good price for coffee, and I think thats probably most of the coffee snobs users. were already in a good mindset about coffee. Im not gonna try to change your mind about fairtrade though, but really, if you need a corporation to complain about, surely there are others you could pick.
    I think the whole crapping on fairtrade thing is a blatant waste of time and energy.

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    • #17
      Re: FAIRTRADE coffee discussion.... Again!

      [split] [link=http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1281596071/0#0][splithere][/link][splithere_end]

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      • #18
        Re: Fair trade greens?

        Fairtrade doesnt pay squat to the actual farmers. They buy the beans from a middleman. Not the farmers! That middleman can pass some of the higher price they received for the beans on to the farmers or not at their discretion. Nothing in the Fairtrade system requires the middleman, who is the one actually Fairtrade certified (A certification they have to pay for!), to pass that higher price along to the farmer.

        Additionally there is nothing in the Fairtrade system to encourage quality. Quite the opposite in fact. The same price per pound is paid no matter the quality so it is to the advantage of the supplier to produce as many beans as possible while putting as little money into the process as they can so as to maximize profits.

        If a farmer produced high quality beans they could get paid far more for their crop than what Fairtrade beans are bought for.

        Fairtrade is a wonderful marketing ploy by some savvy businessmen, but unfortunately thats pretty much all it is. A marketing technique to put more money into their pockets, not the farmers.

        Such is my opinion and if you dig into the Fairtrade system and take a good look at its organization instead of listening to their marketingspeak I think youll come to the same conclusions.


        Java "Stepping off the Soap Box" phile
        Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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        • #19
          Re: Fair trade greens?

          Originally posted by 59485B4043525B515354493A0 link=1281568761/16#16 date=1281763360
          fairtrade thing is a blatant waste of time and energy
          Also WRONG all that generally gets to the media is how wonderful FT or RA is and the "Truth" is somewhat different. Please take the time to read the annual reports and understand where the money goes and what it is used for. It is corporate control and marketing spin masquerading as a charitable feel good organisation/s. Any price premium paid for these beans is swallowed up by the machine and little ever gets on the ground is the source countries and communities who need it!

          If you dont talk about the elephant in the room it is invisible.

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          • #20
            Re: Fair trade greens?

            When a coffee farmer earns more than a Fairtrade employee then I might change my tune.

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            • #21
              Re: Fair trade greens?

              Im not against the concept but doesnt fair trade charge a commission from the farmers? I have always wondered how they afford such a big advertising budget…

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              • #22
                Re: Fair trade greens?

                Originally posted by 353E3F3A3F353E3F3A32560 link=1281568761/20#20 date=1282114119
                I have always wondered how they afford such a big advertising budget…
                Roasters selling Fairtrade coffee pay an annual licensing fee along with a per kilo fee. In theory the licensing fee component is what pays for the "overheads" like advertising, plush offices in major cities around the world and expensive retail space in shopping centres.

                Originally posted by 353E3F3A3F353E3F3A32560 link=1281568761/20#20 date=1282114119
                but doesnt fair trade charge a commission from the farmers?
                It was mentioned above but worth noting again, Fairtrade will only certify a co-op, not an individual farmer.

                So to sell as Fairtrade, the small holder farmer that was producing great coffee will have to toss his beans in with others from the region regardless of the overall quality.

                ...and to answer your question, YES, Co-ops have to pay for Fairtrade certification and inspections every year.

                Organic coffee has a similar story, the small holder farmer could never afford the organic certification and inspections even though they produce using natural organic farming techniques.

                Its a real mess.

                To make matters worse, some origins dont allow direct relationships between buyer and farmer as the suspicious govt think they will missout on taxes.

                I think the solution to most of the problems might be (honest?) government brokered on-line auctions of small farmer lots that will then command real market price. This would encourage the good growers to get paid more for their effort and the bad ones can still toss their beans into a certified bag for a minimum price. The govt can skim their taxes and the farmer would get paid better.

                A few countries currently have an auction system but stories of dodgy middlemen are rife. Cup of Excellence works well but it is far removed from the container loads of beans needed by the big boys. Add to the problems freighting and logistics as well as customs clearances etc and it all seems too hard.

                ...but as hard as it is we do owe our neighbour better than they currently get for the level of effort then spend on a great product.

                I love what CoffeeSnobs members have done with FairCrack so far and hope in time others follow our lead to create a much FairerTrade.

                (punchline is: I really shouldnt read threads with titles like this one after midnight)

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                • #23
                  Re: Fair trade greens?

                  Originally posted by 7F505A473E0 link=1281568761/21#21 date=1282146740
                  some origins dont allow direct relationships between buyer and farmer as the suspicious govt think they will miss out on taxes. .....dodgy middlemen
                  We and the Tanzanian farmers are fortunate in that we have honest and benevolent people like yourself and Bente. Is the Tanzanian govt supportive of First Crack? They must be, from the story behind the first pulper purchase.

                  I love what CoffeeSnobs members have done with FairCrack so far and hope in time others follow our lead to create a much FairerTrade.
                  If it became more widespread, would it be best served as being run by by small operations such as CS or would it become a trademark, centrally operated like Fair Trade.

                  I see problems with either method as less scrupulous types can be tempted when given access to a considerable pool of money. A larger, more centralised operation may require a full-time administrator who would require a wage unless they are prepared to do it voluntarily and are already self-sufficient.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Fair trade greens?

                    I have bought some great quality East Timor Fairtrade greens from Di Bartoli, a CS Site Sponsor.

                    While all Fairtrade coffee is bought from growers by cooperatives, not all coffee from the cooperatives is sold as Fairtrade.

                    A lot of Ethiopian Yirgacheffe is handled by a cooperative.


                    while I agree that Faircrack is great, it is far from the scale of Fairtrade.

                    I don’t expect that all fairtrade is run as well as in East Timor or Ethiopia.

                    I buy coffee on recommended quality, not on if it is Fairtrade or not.

                    Only two of my ten green coffees are Fairtrade while six are from BeanBay.
                     
                    The following is quoted from Di Bartoli website, http://www.dibartoli.com.au

                    “Timore - Leste (East Timor) Maubisse Certified Fairtrade Organic Coffee.

                    Local farms in the central mountains of Timor-Leste, southeast Asias poorest country, are part of Cooperativa Cafe Timor (CCT), the largest single-source producer of organically certified coffee in the world. CCT began buying, processing, and marketing certified organic coffee in Timor-Leste in 1994, when it started with 800 farm families.

                    By helping farmers focus on quality and consistency, CCT commands a high price on the world specialty coffee market for its products. When farmers sell their ripe coffee fruit to CCT, they receive a premium price of between 40% and 75% more than they would if selling their coffee to other producers in Timor-Leste. They also save up to two weeks work needed to process coffee fruit into dried coffee beans, giving them time to harvest more of their crop.

                    CCT now has 20,000 farm family members and employs more than 3,000 Timorese in post-harvest work each year. CCTS activities include primary healthcare, agricultural extension services, vanilla crop and farmer-based cattle fattening projects to diversify exports, a tree nursery to provide replacement shade tree seedlings to coffee farmers, and a training center for cooperatives and small businesses.”

                    Barry

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                    • #25
                      Re: Fair trade greens?

                      Hi all

                      I was browsing last night the Social Science Research Network (SSRN at http://www.ssrn.com). This site is "devoted to the rapid worldwide dissemination of social science research". Wondering if they has anything articles on coffee I searched for just coffee and got lots of results, particularly to do with the economic and social analysis of the Fair Trade system.

                      Naturally I always like to read any research that backs up my own pre-conceived ideas about coffee and "Fair Trade" based on internet searches :-)

                      Anyhow in addition to reading the Fair Trade Annual Reports (I have read one) and internet articles one really does need to read a wide range of material from difference sources to come to an informed decision.  I think this article is very good.

                      Does Fair Trade Coffee Help the Poor?, Evidence from Costa Rica and Guatemala
                      June 2007
                      Colleen E. H. Berndt, Assistant Professor, San Jose State University
                      Electronic copy available at: http://ssrn.com/abstract=1359159

                      COLLEEN E. H. BERNDT is an assistant professor at San Jose State University and an affiliated scholar with the Mercatus Center at George Mason University. She holds a PhD in Economics from George Mason University, as well as an MBA in Finance from Notre Dame de Namur University. Dr. Berndt’s current research interests include economic development, especially as related to coffee cultivation and consumption, and the economics of religion.

                      Mike

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                      • #26
                        Re: Fair trade greens?

                        Excellent read and the conclusions reached spell out some of the thoughts expressed above here. Faircrack and direct trade for me I think, RA and FT pick up your game

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