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Daily turnover in cups in a coffee shop

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  • Dennis
    replied
    Re: Daily turnover in cups in a coffee shop

    Originally posted by 6F686C636B617464636A0D0 link=1286222487/22#22 date=1286498595
    At least with a lawer you might have some chance
    Westfield posted a $961 million net profit for the first half of this year. An increase of around $250 million from the same period in 2009.

    Am not saying obtaining advice from a lawyer is a bad idea. Your own lawyer will possibly be able to explain exactly how far you need to bend over.

    Leave a comment:


  • beanflying
    replied
    Re: Daily turnover in cups in a coffee shop

    At least with a lawer you might have some chance

    Leave a comment:


  • Dennis
    replied
    Re: Daily turnover in cups in a coffee shop

    Originally posted by 7D7A7E717973667671781F0 link=1286222487/20#20 date=1286495105
    negotiating with centre management
    Now thats funny! ;D

    Leave a comment:


  • beanflying
    replied
    Re: Daily turnover in cups in a coffee shop

    + another 100 things and an open web forum is not really the place to do your business plan IMO. YOU need to get it right for the individual situation and YOURSELF, if not walk away now and save the pain.

    It really sounds to me like you need to get some serious professional assistance, write a business plan along with some legal advice in negotiating with centre management and also make sure of all the local goverment red tape while you are at it.

    Forgotten from above fit out to centre management standards $20-30k+, compared to this coffee and tea gear is cheap. If you want to do it on the cheap and just do coffee without food which your list above indicates then get a spot in a walkway for a cart. If you want to add food too add another $20-60k depending on level of commercial kitchen fit out required.

    Sorry to sound really negative but you are flying blind and it will surely end in tears.

    Leave a comment:


  • maheel
    replied
    Re: Daily turnover in cups in a coffee shop

    why do you need a bulk coffee grinder?
    does the shop sell beans in bulk?

    whats a milk skimmer ?
    whats a radio system? is that music?

    do you really need
    ice maker (i would buy bags 1st )
    tea machine (use the coffee machine or plungers etc)
    other coffee machine ?

    Leave a comment:


  • JohnDoe
    replied
    Re: Daily turnover in cups in a coffee shop

    Hmm. I see that I have to do a lot more research.

    In your opinion, is this list way off in relation to needed equipment?

    Barista-/Espresso Machine 1
    Other Coffee Machines 1
    Grinder other Coffee 1
    Espresso Grinder 1
    Bulk Coffee Grinder 1
    Coffee Maker Drip 1
    Tea Machine 1
    Ice Maker 1
    Steel Mugs 5
    Steam Mugs 2
    Tampere 3
    Milk Skimmer 1
    Storage Refrigerator 1
    Under Counter Refrigerator 1
    Freezer 1

    Dish Washer 1
    Compartment Sink 1
    Hand Sink a 1
    Cooling Bench 1
    Cash Register or 1
    Point of Sale System 1
    Electronic Weight 1
    Signs for the shop 1
    Radio System 1
    Credit Card Machine 1
    Uniforms 4

    and of course spoons, cups, straws, paper cups

    Leave a comment:


  • hazchem
    Guest replied
    Re: Daily turnover in cups in a coffee shop

    Originally posted by 7D585F59735852370 link=1286222487/9#9 date=1286310964
    Ok. So you think the data will be polluted if I hire someone? I.e. they will not report correctly?
    no, I dont think the data would be polluted; just that if you are looking to enter a new business venture surely youd want to have as much control and understanding of all the factors? Working the numbers would be the first place Id start.

    How will you truly understand what they mean unless youve done the work yourself?

    I dont even own the business I work in but any financial analysis or reporting that I am responsible for or in control of is done by me, not others. I want to have a full understanding of what is going on.

    Leave a comment:


  • fivegallon
    replied
    Re: Daily turnover in cups in a coffee shop

    Originally posted by 153B2232081F38222432570 link=1286222487/15#15 date=1286341376
    Ive posted these links before & Ill probably post them again.  

    “This is unquestionably one of the least profitable industries in Australia”

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/pressure-cooker/story-e6frg8h6-1225907272295

    http://www.yaffa.com.au/btob/pdf/fsn_june08.pdf

    Great reading for those looking to enter the industry.  It can be done successfully but PLEASE go in with your eyes open.

    There are 40,000 restaurants & cafes in Australia & 7000 close each year.
    Interesting reading even if youre not planning to enter the industry. Thanks for the links

    Leave a comment:


  • Blue_House
    replied
    Re: Daily turnover in cups in a coffee shop

    Ive posted these links before & Ill probably post them again.  

    “This is unquestionably one of the least profitable industries in Australia”

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/pressure-cooker/story-e6frg8h6-1225907272295

    http://www.yaffa.com.au/btob/pdf/fsn_june08.pdf

    Great reading for those looking to enter the industry.  It can be done successfully but PLEASE go in with your eyes open.

    There are 40,000 restaurants & cafes in Australia & 7000 close each year.

    Leave a comment:


  • Justin_Boyle
    replied
    Re: Daily turnover in cups in a coffee shop

    Originally posted by 103532341E353F5A0 link=1286222487/7#7 date=1286307007
    Your last suggestion makes sense. I do not have the time right now to do this myself, the opportunity cost would be too high, but I guess I could get some student or similar to spend a day doing this for a reasonable cost.
    I would suggest then that you dont have the time to run your own coffee shop!!!

    When your done on coffee shops perhaps you should open a bar and then start a winery.

    Three industries where entrants believe they can make it on sheer inspiration alone.

    They are also all industries with lots of competitors and a big threat of new entrants also. Typically industries that have these characteristics DO NOT MAKE MONEY. Blunt I know but................

    The other thing that you could be pretty certain of is that in "most" successful coffee shops, if the owners were drawing a wage they wouldnt be making a profit at all.

    Just another opinion

    People also ask me why I dont open a coffee shop. Im an accountant and I realise that I have to pay the bills!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Thundergod
    replied
    Re: Daily turnover in cups in a coffee shop

    Originally posted by 695A555F42647C153B0 link=1286222487/11#11 date=1286315691
    Folks have asked me why I dont open a shop... I love coffee too much to make it into work.  
    Me too.


    I have backgrounds in banking and food retail.

    My father was a brilliant food retailer.
    Started his first cafe in his early 20s.
    When I was older, I worked with him a few times in various businesses and saw first hand how good you have to be to make it work; I couldnt do it.
    I also deputy managed a Pizza Hut for a few years so have another perspective as well; still, as to running my own business...I couldnt do it.

    Banking: I was a lender for many years in one of the major banks.
    Ive seen many small businesses come and go.
    Ive seen many a grand idea that fell well short on solid figures and business experience to make it work.

    As already stated, most small businesses fail within a few years.
    I saw one my father built up, run into the ground within 12 months by someone with no industry experience; just an idea and some cash.

    Ill encourage someone if I think they have a chance but with the little info I have at the moment JohnDoe, my experience tells me to warn you to do a lot more homework before jumping in the deep end.

    Ill also second the chorus to stay away from a shopping centre.
    The only ones to make money there are the owners.
    The retailers are screwed left right and centre.

    Do you have any food retail experience?
    Any retail experience?
    Whats your background?

    Leave a comment:


  • beanflying
    replied
    Re: Daily turnover in cups in a coffee shop

    Originally posted by 775255537952583D0 link=1286222487/9#9 date=1286310964
    Ok. So you think the data will be polluted if I hire someone? I.e. they will not report correctly?  
    Not polluted but if it were me I would want to get a really good "feel for the place". Your average shopping centre customer is not there for outstanding coffee they are there to shop and in a lot of cases coffee is just a hot drink with food where you are competing with fizzy sweet/juice offerings as well. Your average shopping centre customer wont care what they are having, the scalded grannychino or the sryuped bucket of weak swill will be the norm.

    If your ambition is to simply open a coffee shop then the last place I would be looking at would be a shopping centre, as mentioned above constraints and restriction high rents etc should be a warning enough to look elsewhere at a stand alone venue making great coffee in a great atmosphere. People will travel for a great coffee!

    Get out and drink and dine your way around the speciality coffee venues in your city then go to some shopping centres for comparison, break out the business planning sheets and then decide if it is all worth it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Randy_G.
    replied
    Re: Daily turnover in cups in a coffee shop

    Originally posted by 1C292423170B272E2E2D2D480 link=1286222487/10#10 date=1286312658
    .....
    Successful cafes run on an average spend of $10+ and you will struggle to get that in a shopping centre.

    Nevertheless, with a thick skin and seemingly deep pockets, centre management will love you until you cant afford the rent and you find your site boarded up.

    To have any chance of success, do your homework properly and sitting on your culo at your computer is not going to help much.

    Get it wrong and you will lose money faster than you ever made it and no uni student who fudged you some figures while at his girlfriends place will care.

    Chris
    Excellent post, Chris. I had a fried who roasted his own coffee, had no employees (he and his wife ran the shop), bought all his equipment for cash, and leased the building. He made excellent espresso and his wife was a graduated chocolatier (Yummy, to say the least). No trans-fats in the place, tasty lunches, and my little blues combo played there every Friday night for a few months.

    They lasted about two or three years I think. The best espresso alone will not keep you in business (but bad coffee will run you out of business). All it takes is a burp in the economy to run costs up and run customer visits down, a bump in rent, and one lawsuit to run insurance up and you are done. It is a business for deep, pockets, top-level business models, and some luck. Its way shops which sell excellent espresso are difficult to find- those that can make it, and train others to do the same often are not business savvy. I have no numbers, but more food businesses fail in the first two years than any other business.

    Folks have asked me why I dont open a shop... I love coffee too much to make it into work.

    Leave a comment:


  • TC
    replied
    Re: Daily turnover in cups in a coffee shop

    This reads like a train wreck waiting to happen to me :

    John,

    Respectfully, Id suggest you read over Andys figures again and absorb the reality. The only millionaires in shopping centre cafes are franchisors.

    Lets put the numbers in another form for you.

    In rough % of takings:

    Food/Coffee 25-30%, possibly more if you dont manage wastage well.
    Labour 25-30%. Add 9% super and 3% workcover to this as well. Factor in well over 40 hours for yourself.
    Rent and Marketing fund 10%
    Utilities, power, gas, insurances etc: up to 10%
    Repairs, upgrades, say 2-3%
    misc. stuff 3-5%

    Mandated yearly rent increases >CPI and and if you last 10 years, a compulsory refit of your site.

    Now work these figures up from cups/hour and do some math...

    Bottom line is that if you can get a 10% nett profit from your takings, you are a magician and you will be cooking a whole lot more than lunch.

    Successful cafes run on an average spend of $10+ and you will struggle to get that in a shopping centre.

    Nevertheless, with a thick skin and seemingly deep pockets, centre management will love you until you cant afford the rent and you find your site boarded up.

    To have any chance of success, do your homework properly and sitting on your culo at your computer is not going to help much.

    Get it wrong and you will lose money faster than you ever made it and no uni student who fudged you some figures while at his girlfriends place will care.

    Chris

    Leave a comment:


  • JohnDoe
    replied
    Re: Daily turnover in cups in a coffee shop

    Ok. So you think the data will be polluted if I hire someone? I.e. they will not report correctly?

    Leave a comment:

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