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Third Wave Coffee Cresting?

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  • col9
    replied
    Don't have a cow: coffee purists ditch soy milk

    Leave a comment:


  • beanflying
    replied
    Re: Third wave, Part religion, part mad science.

    Mmmm sounds like a recent thread discussion around here  :

    Also got to love that all of the St Ali stores got a coffee mention in the article coffee for comment

    Leave a comment:


  • Thundergod
    replied
    Re: Third Wave Coffee Cresting?

    Originally posted by 566F69686363745954696775726374060 link=1287710242/18#18 date=1288136053
    The equipment is top end, the beans are uber specialty, so the result must be good?
    Rhetorical question?

    Originally posted by 566F69686363745954696775726374060 link=1287710242/18#18 date=1288136053
    During my last trip to Melbourne I found most of what was served to me way to sour and far to tight.
    I didnt find that.
    Maybe you picked the wrong places.

    Leave a comment:


  • askthecoffeeguy
    replied
    Re: Third Wave Coffee Cresting?

    Originally posted by 66585F546E5E576E4559546E7354505F310 link=1287710242/12#12 date=1287796238
    Can you create a blend that works well as a spro, milk-based, and soy-based?  You might be chasing your tail trying to rope in all of those requirements.

    Also places might not have enough space to have all the spare grinders and machines for each style.

    Youre trying to keep the workflow as simple as possible, not complicate it...
    IMHO this should be the minimal requirement for any venue which is serious about its coffee - its not rocket science to get these elements right and too few cafes roast specifically for milk based coffees - which is what the majority of customers drink

    A well put together espresso blend should satisfy all of the above requirements and if it doesnt then its not well put together - in my opinion at least...

    And a dedicated espresso grinder takes care of the rest...

    Mind you if youre going to have a dedicated espresso grinder you nay as well use it to showcase your single origins...

    Not sure why I keep adding ... To the end of my sentences - maybe its a mobile thing ...

    Leave a comment:


  • wholeshotalove
    replied
    Re: Third Wave Coffee Cresting?

    so drifting lighter to save a few kilos versus the risk of alienating your customers........I wouldnt think so.



    As with all industries there are variabilities in what rosters prioritise. Some focus on consistency, some focus on quality, some focus on freshness and some focus on cash.

    There is no way to generalise what the ethics of a business is. Goodies ;D and baddies >

    Some roast lighter for margins, some dont.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wushoes
    replied
    Re: Third Wave Coffee Cresting?

    Originally posted by 1E222B3326470 link=1287710242/7#7 date=1287784085
    My feeling as well, a saving of 2% is insignificant for a single roast, however over 12 months it would be substantial. Wink
    a few bags of coffee saved over the year is hardly going to effect the bottom line of a roastery. Absorbing the increase in green prices and keeping wholesale prices the same will because everyone is too scared to raise prices on coffee will (be it roasteries or cafes).  :-/

    Leave a comment:


  • Yelta
    replied
    Re: Third Wave Coffee Cresting?

    Originally posted by 4D4D4D1C2E0 link=1287710242/13#13 date=1287873943
    With all due respect, I disagree quite strongly.
    As is your right, Im afraid my faith in human nature is not quite as unshakable as yours

    Leave a comment:


  • ccc2
    replied
    Re: Third Wave Coffee Cresting?

    Originally posted by 506C657D68090 link=1287710242/7#7 date=1287784085
    My feeling as well, a saving of 2% is insignificant for a single roast, however over 12 months it would be substantial. Wink
    With all due respect, I disagree quite strongly.

    Commercial roasters are in the business of winning new customers and more importantly, they are in the business of ensuring consistency in their roasts.  

    Part of the "dance" in courting new customers is the obligatory "free trial samples". Over 12 months, the quantity of "trial" coffee given away at no charge substantially dwarfs any perceived savings from yield gains on lighter roast profiles. There are also those spillages in the Roastery that David mentions, bags not being sewn up properly, defective beans, bad roasts, etc. It all adds up.

    Consistency - some customers can be very astute in picking up slight changes in a coffee and whilst most of the time this can be passed off as barista variables, the smart customers know if the coffee has changed.

    Unless its an improvement, the roaster is typically not going to enjoy a customer discussion as its all too easy for cafes to think the roaster has destroyed their business by giving them coffee their regulars dont like - an emotive conversation, even if it may be perceived or otherwise.

    Bottom line - Roasters spend ridiculous amounts of time attempting to achieve consistency, so drifting lighter to save a few kilos versus the risk of alienating your customers........I wouldnt think so.

    Originally posted by 6B687A7A7E6870090 link=1287710242/10#10 date=1287787710
    Fair enough, I was just trying to bring into the discussion the point that a lighter roast may suit espresso but not milk. Also the point that some beans may suit espresso but not Soy.
    Not normally the case. Depending upon the bean, most respond to darker roasts by lowering acid and therefore making a better espresso experience.

    Around Melbourne over the last 12 months there is a trend (as BF indicated) amongst  some roasters to attempt creating a "universal" bean application, e.g. a roast batch/profile that can be used for espresso, latte, syphon, filter, basically anything, etc. or at least something that is halfway between all types.

    This could be due, in some cases, to a distinct disconnect between the roaster preparing the bean and when/where the sale of the pack takes place (away from the roaster), the location/customer where the beans end up being delivered and finally (more likely) the baristas wanting to experiment on their customers without actually testing and validating the "application" beforehand.

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  • Wine_of_the_Bean
    Guest replied
    Re: Third Wave Coffee Cresting?

    Can you create a blend that works well as a spro, milk-based, and soy-based? You might be chasing your tail trying to rope in all of those requirements.

    Also places might not have enough space to have all the spare grinders and machines for each style.

    Youre trying to keep the workflow as simple as possible, not complicate it...

    Leave a comment:


  • beanflying
    replied
    Re: Third Wave Coffee Cresting?

    Originally posted by 6162707074627A030 link=1287710242/10#10 date=1287787710
    Decaf (would it be third wave then?)
    More the trough of the third wave if you like ;D

    Most of these places have more big Mazzers and Guatemalas than you can poke a stick at anyway. So one per bean and process is a cinch )I wish I had that problem)

    I think some of it is perceived got to find a new experience in coffee that is wilder and different to the next guy? Maybe this is partly driving the roasting in undesirable directions instead of trying to get the best out of the beans for a brew method and compromising the result in the cup?

    That citrus and milk thing could also be the Barista not drinking milk based coffees or their perceived taste being ok but certainly not for me.

    Leave a comment:


  • bassway
    replied
    Re: Third Wave Coffee Cresting?

    Originally posted by 6F686C636B617464636A0D0 link=1287710242/9#9 date=1287786415
    I wasnt mentioning any names remember Redzone and I left it to the Barista for a bean and that is what we were served as a flat white. As a Spro or a brewed coffee I think it would be nicer.
    Fair enough, I was just trying to bring into the discussion the point that a lighter roast may suit espresso but not milk. Also the point that some beans may suit espresso but not Soy.

    So a "third wave" cafe needs a separate grinder for:
    Pourover
    Espresso
    Latte
    Soy Latte
    Blend for each above
    Decaf (would it be third wave then?)
    ;D ;D ;D ;D

    Leave a comment:


  • beanflying
    replied
    Re: Third Wave Coffee Cresting?

    Originally posted by 2F2C3E3E3A2C344D0 link=1287710242/8#8 date=1287785813
    Market Lane a few weeks ago the coffee was as you described it. Very citrus
    I wasnt mentioning any names remember Redzone and I left it to the Barista for a bean and that is what we were served as a flat white. As a Spro or a brewed coffee I think it would be nicer.

    Leave a comment:


  • bassway
    replied
    Re: Third Wave Coffee Cresting?

    Originally posted by 4E494D424A405545424B2C0 link=1287710242/0#0 date=1287710242
    I got served a flat white with a real citrus kick and to me citrus and milk just dont work
    Drink it black?

    This may be one of the issues. How does a roaster test (generally)?
    In a cupping session this said coffee would probably be nice. The barista probably checks the coffee in a short black.

    When I went to Market Lane a few weeks ago the coffee was as you described it. Very citrus.
    In a short black - beautiful. My wife had it as a Soy latte. Not good, too acidic.
    As a side note coffees with an earthy taste (generally wet hulled) dont taste that good in some soy milk. It is like adding dirt to dirt.

    So the roaster may inadvertently be roasting for black coffee not for coffee flavoured milk.

    Some places that get a good review here, I find are terrible. Roasted too dark. Most of the flavour disappears, very round, muted and the after taste is burnt. But the review placed here is of a latte.

    So is it that the lighter roasted coffee is good as a black but not as a cafe latte?

    Leave a comment:


  • Yelta
    replied
    Re: Third Wave Coffee Cresting?

    Originally posted by 726D6A6960766D6A7164696A7360050 link=1287710242/4#4 date=1287716051
    has anyone had a great light roast espresso coffee?
    Never.

    Originally posted by 726D6A6960766D6A7164696A7360050 link=1287710242/4#4 date=1287716051
    the cynic in me says its due to less weight loss in a light roast during roasting, equating to more volume to kg weight?.
    My feeling as well, a saving of 2% is insignificant for a single roast, however over 12 months it would be substantial.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wushoes
    replied
    Re: Third Wave Coffee Cresting?

    Originally posted by 293631323B2D36312A3F3231283B5E0 link=1287710242/4#4 date=1287716051
    I often wondered why companies are roasting lighter for espresso, the cynic in me says its due to less weight loss in a light roast during roasting, equating to more volume to kg weight?....... Shocked
    Hardly. Roasteries waste more in spillage coffee on the ground than anything else.

    Leave a comment:

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