Coffee Extraction Times - Any advice appreciated :)

[rizz]

Hi there,

Im new to this site and am finding it extremely helpful in my pursuit for making the perfect coffee at home. I do have a problem which  I am hoping you coffee geniouses out there can help me with:

I have had my Breville 800ES for 4 years now and generally I have been quite happy with it until I decided to do a barista course and worked out the ideal coffee extraction times.

I had originally paired this machine with a DeLonghi KG100 grinder at the finest setting and I was getting 30mls in around 12 seconds. Clearly not the 25 secs to 30 second range it needs to be.

My first step was to buy a new grinder that could go finer than the delonghi, so I purchased a Sunbeam em0480 which clearly can offer a much finer grind than my delonghi.

After trying the test again I was still achieving 30mls in around 14 seconds, so now I am out of ideas!!

With regards to tamping pressure, I am putting massive pressuire on, so nothing to do with that.. it makes little difference. I do understand that a flaw of this breville machine is that it operates at 15 bars which is too powerful but am hoping there is another solution.

Quite a few people are recommending that on this machine a good idea is to change the basket to a non pressurized one. Will this actually make  a difference to extraction times?

Thank you for your advice.

Cheers

Rizz

[A_M]

Re: Coffee Extraction Times - Any advice appreciated

With regards to tamping pressure, I am putting massive pressuire on, so nothing to do with that.. it makes little difference. I do understand that a flaw of this breville machine is that it operates at 15 bars which is too powerful but am hoping there is another solution.

Ignore the 15 Bar stuff..

Where do you get your beans from ?

What does it come out like ?

When do you start to count your time ?

How fine is the grind - sugar / salt or fine black pepper ?

I have had my Breville 800ES for 4 years now and generally I have been quite happy with it until I decided to do a barista course and worked out the ideal coffee extraction times.

Depends on where and who did the training as to if a positive move. Lots of bad info out there.

As to the highlighted stuff. Well there is NO ideal only a rough guide that is then dependant on 1001 other variables. You go chasing the so called Ideal in numbers and you will never make great coffee.

[rizz]

Re: Coffee Extraction Times - Any advice appreciated

I generally buy my beans from my local roaster in moonee ponds. For these tests I have been using standard lavazza beans from the supermarket since I have been wasting quite a bit of coffee experimenting.

It comes out super fast, and quite light in colour (transparent).

I start counting the moment you see coffee starting to extract.

grind is fine black pepper.

I agree you shoudl not look at the numbers however I feel it is so off the mark at the moment that I need to start from somewhere to get this right.

[jkarlis]

Re: Coffee Extraction Times - Any advice appreciated

Quite a few people are recommending that on this machine a good idea is to change the basket to a non pressurized one. Will this actually make  a difference to extraction times?

In my opinion this is the first thing you should do. You can buy unpressurised baskets or convert your existing baksets. See this thread for an example:

http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1281345941/6#6

Pressurised baskets are designed for use with stale, pre-ground coffee which will not give any crema with a non-pressurised basket. Pressurised baskets force the coffee out of a tiny hole at the bottom which creates foaming effect and a fake crema.

I think youre wasting your time trying to get to 25-30 seconds whilst youre still using pressurised baskets, the same dynamics will not apply. When making real espresso made with a non-pressurised basket, the pressure is created by the coffee itself and not the basket.

[jkarlis]

Re: Coffee Extraction Times - Any advice appreciated

I generally buy my beans from my local roaster in moonee ponds. For these tests I have been using standard lavazza beans from the supermarket

Fresh roasted will give completely different results with regards to extraction time compared to stale supermarket beans. Get yourself some unpressurised baskets and sacrifice a few $ to get it right.

I start counting the moment you see coffee starting to extract

You should start counting from the time you hit the brew button.

[A_M]

Re: Coffee Extraction Times - Any advice appreciated

I agree you shoudl not look at the numbers however I feel it is so off the mark at the moment that I need to start from somewhere to get this right.

And there in is part of you problem..

You should start counting from the time you hit the brew button.

As per above AND when you have a machine that has better head pressure control AND the right size basket AND the right style AND etc etc

Thus when you apply number that are meant for a different machine AND apply them incorrectly.  You will never get what you expect.

Great coffee is where 2 + 2 = 5

A basic white goods  item with specs less than an EM6910 and you should be happy with quicker times and less volume.

After all; It is whats in the cup that counts. 

I would rather have a good coffee than crap that came out in the right time and the correct volume. Correct numbers do not mean good or even great coffee....

[rizz]

Re: Coffee Extraction Times - Any advice appreciated

Pressurised baskets are designed for use with stale, pre-ground coffee which will not give any crema with a non-pressurised basket.  Pressurised baskets force the coffee out of a tiny hole at the bottom which creates foaming effect and a fake crema.

I think this is the way to go along with fresh beans. Thanks for your advice..

[rizz]

Re: Coffee Extraction Times - Any advice appreciated

I would rather have a good coffee than crap that came out in the right time and the correct volume.  Correct numbers do not mean good or even great coffee....

I understand your point entirely mate. Cheers for your advice.

[maheel]

Re: Coffee Extraction Times - Any advice appreciated

work on your grinder backwards maybe

1 empty it out, remove the top burr and give it a good clean.
2. wind in the top burr and go right down to touching (grinder off) ingnore the numbers for now.
3. back it off a few notches (2) and then turn it on and wind in very slowly untill you hear the whisper of the burr touching. then back off a little bit .
4. get fresh beans and grind them on that setting. make a coffee and see what happens.
5. if it chokes the machine back the grinder off another click and try again.

are you using the double basket, best if unpressurized...

[GregWormald]

Re: Coffee Extraction Times - Any advice appreciated

Warning--you must use fresh coffee (within 3 or 4 weeks of roasting, within 3 minutes of grinding).
A de-pressurised basket, in general, will allow the coffee to flow FASTER.

Greg

[rizz]

Re: Coffee Extraction Times - Any advice appreciated

A de-pressurised basket, in general, will allow the coffee to flow FASTER.

Thanks Greg for your advice. I am pleased to report that the unpressurized basket made a significant difference to the taste of the coffee and the extraction was much slower on the same old beans. Thank you everyone for your advice.