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  • Coffee age and freshness

    Originally posted by 363B302D363B3526303D3A33362139540 link=1163710607/1252#1252 date=1303008069
    best Ive ever had
    Kyle,

    Welcome to CoffeSnobs.

    Lovely Eric Has shown you that your equipment is capable of making amazing coffee. All it takes is good fresh coffee, reading of the posts here and practice and you will do the same.

    Dont use stale supermarket coffee. I saw some in Woolies yesterday with "best used before December 2012". When was it roasted? Who knows.

    Green unroasted beans are at their best for 3 years, roasted beans 3 weeks and ground coffee 3 minutes.

    Buy some freshly roasted beans from a local roaster, a Site Sponsor or from Andy here at BeanBay or roast your own like many of us here do.

    Use the quick search up the top or ask for help.


    Barry


  • #2
    Re: Coffee age and freshness

    Originally posted by 7D5E4D4D46607B4A515C5E513F0 link=1163710607/1253#1253 date=1303011345
    Green unroasted beans are at their best for 3 years, roasted beans 3 weeks and ground coffee 3 minutes
    I dont mean to pick on you Barry, but Ive seen this quote so many times and it really is just a load of rubbish.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Coffee age and freshness

      Thanks for the warm welcome Barry! My partner and i are moving into our new unit in South Perth this week so once were all settled in and ive got the milk texturing working better im going to start trying the 5 seeds beens, nice and freshly roasted

      Until then, ive got some beans that Eric gave me with the machine which tasted fantastic when he made me a coffee No idea what they are though, ill send him an email to find out!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Coffee age and freshness

        Originally posted by 5046434352505C55555656330 link=1163710607/1254#1254 date=1303012122
        I dont mean to pick on you Barry, but Ive seen this quote so many times and it really is just a load of rubbish.
        How about elaborating then Dennis.

        As far as Im concerned its a simplistic guide for the beginners just like 30mls in 30 seconds.

        Theres always devil in the detail but if you think its so far from the truth we should not be saying it to beginners, then please enlighten us all.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Coffee age and freshness

          Sorry Dennis. The three threes may be a bit of a cliché but it is a simple guide to freshness.

          I have been trying to encourage people to go for fresh beans from coffee specialists like you rather than using dubious supermarket beans of unknown ages.

          I know that fresh beans are not everything for making good coffee but it is an important start.

          Looking forward to the Breville launch one month from today.

          Barry

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Coffee age and freshness

            Thanks for not taking it personally Barry.

            I guess as long as anyone clarifies that these 3 minute rules are in fact loose guidelines, Im ok with that.

            TG, Ive had some brilliant coffee from greens that were 4+ years old; extractions that oozed stable crema, and were balanced and full-bodied from 3+ week coffee, and how about somebody please explain to me what happens at what I suspect is the arbitrary time of 3 minutes that will be noticeably different to a coffee that was ground 4 minutes ago.

            Some examples:
            If I am unhappy with the roast when the greens are for my liking, too fresh. They can benefit from resting quietly in a corner for several months or longer after harvest.

            Monsoon Malabar is a classic example (as roasted by me) for a coffee that I get best results from 3 weeks + post roast.

            Better I think to suggest that coffee is ground on demand, at the time required, and per cup, than apply a time rule.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Coffee age and freshness

              I have always viewed the "rule of threes" as indicative of the magnitude of time for the three phases of coffee. That is;
              Green beans - three years (less than four years in general, definitely not 10 years)
              Roast coffee - three weeks (definitely not three months)
              Ground coffee - three minutes (use as soon as possible, definitely not 3+ hours)

              I’m sure no body is trying to say to ditch roast beans 3 weeks and 1 day old. I’ve had roasts peek at around 3 weeks and be great for 3 more weeks after that. Like wise I have had coffee that is horrible at three weeks old. But I am never going to buy coffee from a supermarket that has been on the self for 3 months! The best before data on supermarket coffee of a year or more is joke. Also I’m never going to use coffee ground the day before (as one of my colleges proudly told me as his way of getting around waking the household up at 6am). Coffee degrades from heat, moisture, oxygen and light. Restrict these and the coffee will last longer, expose your coffee to these factors and it will degrade faster.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Coffee age and freshness

                Phew... I glad Dennis clarification was from the uber-snob end of the spectrum and Im really glad 2mcm split this away from the "Hi! Im new here. Go easy on me!" thread where the problems probably arent about using greens that are too fresh or only using a stopwatch with 10ths rather than 100ths of a second accuracy to check the 3 minutes ;D

                More seriously... in the only other similar thread (that I remember) there was a post from someone who sounded horrified at the thought of leaving greens for three years - I think as opposed to using one season before the next is ready.  I thought that was the next level of snobdomism but more likely misguided over simplification appropriate to their circumstances?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Coffee age and freshness

                  I think this is very similar to ageing wines: some improve when aged correctly and some dont...

                  I roasted the very last of some 05 Yemen Matari about 10 months ago. This green definitely improved with age and I was very sad to see the last of it. For me, it was one of my all time best evers.

                  Some of my blends peak around day 14 or so, but the one blend with a robusta component is really at its best if left for a few weeks before it hits the grinder. Same goes for Malabar in my opinion.

                  As for ground, Im with the majority here. Best is to grind for immediate use.

                  Chris

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Coffee age and freshness

                    Originally posted by 444140475A585C5555330 link=1303011346/6#6 date=1303025173
                    (as one of my colleges proudly told me as his way of getting around waking the household up at 6am)
                    Thats a mistake. Everyone knows he should be doing this at 3am but no later than 3.03am. ;D

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Coffee age and freshness

                      Originally posted by 0117121203010D04040707620 link=1303011346/5#5 date=1303020128
                      TG, Ive had some brilliant coffee from greens that were 4+ years old; extractions that oozed stable crema, and were balanced and full-bodied from 3+ week coffee, and how about somebody please explain to me what happens at what I suspect is the arbitrary time of 3 minutes that will be noticeably different to a coffee that was ground 4 minutes ago.
                      Were on the same page.

                      I struggled to understand why people raved about MM until I "lost" a bag for a couple of weeks and noticed it was starting to taste better than previous batches I hadnt waited long enough for.

                      I also have some greens that are beyond 3 years old but have previously roasted +3yr old beans that turned out fine.

                      Ill state now I dont intend to clarify the Rule of 3s is a loose guideline every time I mention them.

                      Beginners need a starting point and the Rule of 3s is one of them.

                      In my karate I teach students "basics".
                      Most are not ready to learn a 3rd Dan kata straight away.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Coffee age and freshness

                        Originally posted by 5B677A616B6A7D68606B0F0 link=1303011346/10#10 date=1303046659
                        Beginners need a starting point and the Rule of 3s is one of them.

                        In my karate I teach students "basics".
                        Then beginners should be advised that this rule is in fact not a rule but a rough guide.

                        The way its usually written (in fact I havent seen it written any other way), anyone would think that they might be sucked into a black hole or something like it if they deviate at all.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Coffee age and freshness

                          I look through my beans/blends and realise that this "rule" fits 95% of them. Well at least the 3 week. I have only had a 3 to 4 beans roasted up 3 years past their harvest date. Only one stood up though.

                          Same with the extraction, only if the roast date is 0 - 2 days that going passed the 3 minutes is fine. Waiting until 4 minutes on most beans/roast date is quite noticeable. To be accurate I have only tried this 20 or so times, not on all beans and not a blind test.

                          So to me "Green unroasted beans are at their best for 3 years, roasted beans 3 weeks and ground coffee 3 minutes." stands on fact of probability. I wouldnt throw it out or call it a rough guide because of edge cases like a Monsooned bean.
                          I dont throw out Newtonian physics because quantum physics or relativity show that it is incorrect at edge cases. Ok extreme allegory but I hope you get what I mean.

                          When someone is beginning to learn a new craft then the basic should be taught. What are the "basics"? Usually a rule that fits 95% of cases.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Coffee age and freshness

                            I never said to throw it out bassway.

                            Do you roast your own coffee?

                            If your answer is yes, then I suggest that has an overwhelming effect on why your coffees have a very similar best buy date.

                            Do you buy from one, or more than one, commercial roaster? If you do purchase roasted coffee, is it always the same variety or do you purchase different blends and SOs?

                            If you answer yes to any of these, you will find a variety of best buy dates according to your taste buds.

                            Comparing the rule of 3 to a law of physics is a bit funny.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Coffee age and freshness

                              Originally posted by 6D4C4747405A290 link=1303011346/13#13 date=1303159365
                              I never said to throw it out bassway.
                              Originally posted by 4A5C5959484A464F4F4C4C290 link=1303011346/1#1 date=1303012122
                              Originally posted by 7D5E4D4D46607B4A515C5E513F0 link=1163710607/1253#1253 date=1303011345
                              Green unroasted beans are at their best for 3 years, roasted beans 3 weeks and ground coffee 3 minutes
                              Ive seen this quote so many times and it really is just a load of rubbish.
                              So you dont throw out your rubbish?

                              Comment

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