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  • #16
    Re: Help I have some major issues

    Im not an expert, but it seems my way of thinking seems to lead to the grinder as the number one factor, meaning something is loose, perhaps causing the burrs to move closer together. Check how secure your burrs are.

    Happened to me once when the burrs became unsecure and subsequently the grinds have changed to coarser, so my problem was in reverse.

    This is not a bean issue as you mentioned the pour changes from shot to shot.
    I presume technique is not the issue as you are very consistent.

    If you do change the blades, check every other aspect of the grinder.

    Perhaps coffeesnobs member Beanflying can assist as hes around the corner from you.

    Looking forward to your follow through on Monday.

    Gary at G

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    • #17
      Re: Help I have some major issues

      Someone mention my name and made my ears burn 

      Have dropped you an email and see if I can help you out early next week. I can always throw my K10 in the car for comparison done under 100kg as far as I know.

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      • #18
        Re: Help I have some major issues

        Some random thoughts:

        according to the importer, the conical burrs of the K10 are rated to 1300 kilos from memory. The 400 kilo figure mentioned above commonly relates to planar burrs.

        Burrs wear over time. The corresponding change in grind setting occurs over time. As the operators notice the grind setting changing over time,  they keep adjusting it down to suit. Eventually the coffee tastes like crap and the crema is a dark brown colour, and the grinder will overheat during peak times due to the increased friction, but it usually continues to flow at an even rate.....IE, worn burrs do not in my experience cause coffee to flow at a certain rate for some time then almost instantly change to another rate....as stated all this normally happens gradually.

        It is possible that in areas where there are large fluctuations in humidity that when grinding burrs are badly worn and therefore the setting is getting finer and finer for a certain flow rate, then a sudden change in humidity might noticeably affect the flow..... but this is only theoretical on my part because we rarely see burrs worn so badly ( ie they are usually changed out at the right time instead of being left to a point where they are causing major problems) and we dont see wildly fluctuating humidity in my area.

        After that ofcourse, I am aways open to learn something new and would be interested to know if this issue really is related to badly worn burrs. I say badly because I couldnt see symptoms described happening with say, lightly worn burrs.... it is too extreme, and the figure given for use above seems too low for the burrs to be much more than well bedded in.

        Cutting to the chase.....I would ask my coffee supplier to lend me a grinder for a week for comparison and a professional supplier would not deny your request but as you say your supplier is a long way away, if it were me and certainly at 35 kilos per week I would buy a second grinder (in the scheme of things they are cheap and you will turn over the purchase price in one days trade or less), and then you can directly and quickly get to the bottom of whether your grinder is at fault.

        Your supplier may be a long way away but surely you have a local service provider? Do they not have a grinder you can rent for a nominal fee for a few days?

        Other random thoughts:
        a) water pump????????
        b)Water Pressure Limiting Valve?
        C) water filter?
        d) Consistent operator technique?

        In a 35 kilo a week business these are cheap to replace even if only to eliminate any possible connection to the problem.

        Without being there to see it is impossible to diagnose what is going on. Where is you service provider in all this? you are in buainess so dont be scared to pay for quick professional help as it will ultimately cost you less than trying to sort things out yourself over time.


        Hope this offers some help.

        Rgdz,
        Attilio
        very first CS site sponsor

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        • #19
          Re: Help I have some major issues

          Just wondering how full your hopper was (if you noticed )when these problems were happening because Something interesting ive noticed with my k10 is that when the beans get very low in the hopper (almost empty ) the grind becomes very coarse, therefore gushing of the shot. When i top the hopper back up there is no more problem. All i could put it down to was that there wasnt enough weight on the burrs(bean on bean) when near empty causing course grind? does that make sense? I am probably off the mark here but this is what i am experiencing at present. As long as my hopper is at least 1/3 full no problem. (i use a k3 hopper)

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          • #20
            Re: Help I have some major issues

            Having a play tomorrow with my K10 and some of Loadeddogs beans, not sure if he is bringing his K10 over as well to compare and have a chat.

            Originally posted by 7D485F5D0E0B3A0 link=1304594698/18#18 date=1304850742
            ive noticed with my k10 is that when the beans get very low in the hopper (almost empty
            Never had a noticeable problem with mine so far. Minimal popcorning so the bean feed must be fairly good even when just the throat is full. Grind retention is this grinders biggest problem IMO for home or limited commercial use.

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            • #21
              Re: Help I have some major issues

              Ive also noticed that unless our 1 kilo hopper is at least 1/3rd full we will get a variance. So we keep it full.

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              • #22
                Re: Help I have some major issues

                Attilio (fresh_coffee) has some valid and interesting points. Define consistent! We click 3 times for 16grams, tap to consolidate, tamp & polish. This happens till the shit hits the fan. Then we will either up the dosage in the chamber, tap the group handle up to three times or just generally over dose to try and slow down the pour time. If the shots are long well again get inventive! Consistent you tell me.
                Today I had a killer grind happening! Three clicks light tamp & polish, 27sec -28sec. Perfect pour, lovely crema, oreo biscuits. Great coffee. 10am, busy & it turned to shit!! I pulled a succession of great shots and group 2 dropped a 20sec. Group 3 pulled a 26sec. Next lot 2 pulled a 19sec and 3 a 18sec. Pour looked a little fast (obviously) but biscuit, & crema still looked great... I over dosed the handle & got the times up to 26sec after aprox 8 turfed shots. Finally new grind came through and we had good shots for 20 min, then they ran long (37 - 40sec).
                We prefer to manual dose, but in busy times we just have to auto dose. My switch is in danger of falling off due to constant on/off action. Diamond services (supplier) have said the grinder is not recommended for manual dose and should be operated as an auto dose grinder. This goes against my fresh coffee policy, so we manual dose in low volume times.
                Water pressure & pump pressure are eliminated. Volumes are set in the morning & monitored on every shot. Finding we change volumes when the grind changes (topic for my next post)????

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                • #23
                  Re: Help I have some major issues

                  Interesting information loaded.

                  So, it sounds as if the issue only occurs when you are dosing by drop, rather than free dosing?

                  Many doser grinders can be somewhat dodgy as the drop will depend on the fill and also how accurate the dosing mechanism is. Someone once told me that the drop mechanism can be inconsistent up to 25% of the time.

                  Sounds to me like you should be contemplating a big electronic doserless grinder such as a Major-E, Robur-E or similar. 

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                  • #24
                    Re: Help I have some major issues

                    Problem is cjn, it will also do it manual dose . Its just not as big an issue. Easier to chase & change the grind. Not as much wastage. Not as much stress!!!!

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                    • #25
                      Re: Help I have some major issues

                      Originally posted by 20232D28292828232B4C0 link=1304594698/23#23 date=1304893830
                      Problem is cjn, it will also do it manual dose . Its just not as big an issue. Easier to chase & change the grind. Not as much wastage. Not as much stress!!!!
                      Time for a Robur-E me thinks....

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                      • #26
                        Re: Help I have some major issues

                        Sorry but this is sounding more and more like a technique related issue if not a doser/dispenser issue. Yes some dosers do not drop consistent doses (but this should not be a significant problem on the Compak like it is on some others)...and neither do some humans!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                        An auto dispense grinder such as the one Chris has noted may be the go, and there are some others that also do an accurate "auto dispensed" single dose in various price brackets.

                        You could also engage a trainer (your coffee supplier trainer should get first bite of the cherry) to audit your coffee making process over time. An hour spent silently watching while you are busy, without talking to anyone or getting in anyones way.....with a notepad and pen, and thereafter to advise you about what came up from that....

                        Sometimes the results are an eye opener (for the cafe), with resulting marked betterment of professionalism and product afterwards...thats a win / win / won for everyone.

                        Hope that helps.

                        Rgdz,
                        Attilio
                        very first Cs site sponsor.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Help I have some major issuesw

                          I agree Attilio, we may need to look at our training. No arguments from me.
                          Latest news is though
                          I went across and spent an enjoyable morning talking & drinking coffee with Beanflying. Picked up his Compak K10 & replaced it for mine.

                          After dialing it in, my girls only dropped 5 shots in 3 hrs. Thats incredible. Thats how we want to make coffee!!! My girls refuse to give the grinder back! lol! Better send me an invoice Beanflying!!
                          This is only preliminary observations though. We only did about 1.8 kilos. Ill keep you posted on what happens tomorrow! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

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                          • #28
                            Re: Help I have some major issues

                            Thats great news loaded,

                            It sounds like youre doing pretty big volumes and you do need an appropriate grinder. Looks like a solution is close now.

                            [smiley=thumbsup.gif] also to you bf for helping out a fellow member near you. Thats what CS is all about.

                            Chris

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                            • #29
                              Re: Help I have some major issues

                              Yeah for Coffesnobs and all who have contributed to my solution! What a magnificent resource! And all at my finger tips! Last week I was at my wits end, this week I have direction and purpose!

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                              • #30
                                Re: Help I have some major issues

                                I will be over with the attack milk slops drinking Whippets to reclaim it If I need to

                                Great it is working much better for you, catch you mid week and interested to look at your K10 compared to mine.

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