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  • #16
    Re: Am I a Barista?

    The word barista is of Italian origin, and in Italian, a barista is a male or female "bartender", who typically works behind a counter, serving both hot drinks (such as espresso), and cold alcoholic and non-alcoholic beverages, not a coffee-maker specifically.

    How many real baristi are there? Are most of us like myself simply coffee makers


    (off topic - I need a barista in Carnegie - Melbourne, where do we post job ads on coffeesnobs?)

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    • #17
      Re: Am I a Barista?

      As a technicality, it all comes down to the meaning of the word. Barista=Bartender. So, if you work behind the bar, and pull some shots, then you are a Barista. But there are experienced Barista, and inexperienced Barista. In Australia, I think the title mis represents the job we associate it with, its a cultural thing.

      What I would like to see, is a new title given to espresso coffee specialists.

      What do you think? Maybe its time to move away from the old skool tradition, and redefine the title......suggestions anyone?

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      • #18
        Re: Am I a Barista?

        This is a bit of a pointless debate. It doesnt matter what the meaning of barista is.

        Suga is a qualified barista as she has a course completion document. She is not yet an experienced barista if i inferred correctly. In the long run, it is a combination of training, experience and demonstrated ability for someone to be called a professional barista.

        But what you are called doesnt matter. Different jobs will require different standards. Some operators just need to know you can point out an espresso machine and grinder and be able to push a button; some will ask you to show you can prepare several cups of coffee to a high standard.

        Flynn

        (who is a coffee enthusiast, not a barista, even if Ive completed a home barista course and have made hundreds of coffees.)

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        • #19
          Re: Am I a Barista?

          Originally posted by 69637661616E7A7C0F0 link=1305299687/17#17 date=1306199441
          This is a bit of a pointless debate. It doesnt matter what the meaning of barista is.
          Said by a true non barista >....... ;D

          Originally posted by 69637661616E7A7C0F0 link=1305299687/17#17 date=1306199441
          In the long run, it is a combination of training, experience and demonstrated ability for someone to be called a professional barista.
          I agree.

          But there is a point to it, from a training perspective it always frustrates me the labels given to people who work with coffee, as it can misrepresent their skill base. The label given as an expectation of skills developed is misrepresented, and also very non specific. I believe this can also play a detremantal role in the respect, qualification, at pay rates for professionals as apose to button pushers.

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          • #20
            Re: Am I a Barista?

            Im in the "a piece of paper doesnt make you a barista" camp.
            Same reasons as eloquently put above by several others.

            I have one of those pieces of paper.
            Ive also worked behind a machine but I didnt get the job because of the certificate.
            I got it because of the passion I showed (and demonstrating that I could use the machine).

            On Saturday I helped a friend with a coffee cart at some markets.
            He normally does less than 4kg of coffee on the day but that day we did 5.5kg.
            He estimated we did about 275 coffees in a 5 hour window.
            The word "slammed" was used a lot.

            I was on shots and he was on milk so he also did hot chocolates, teas and chais on top of that number.

            Despite being proud of myself for being able to jump straight in and help him out at such a pace, I also dont consider myself a barista.

            For example, in our lead up discussions I was contemplating doing the milk instead of pulling shots.
            But when I got there I realised I hadnt worked commercially for quite some time and handling several milk jugs and types of milk was probably a little ambitious that day.

            As it was, it worked out well.
            I was able to handle the pace and not let him down.
            But until I get a lot more practice and feel confident to do the milk at his pace, or even better, do the lot without getting myself confused, Im still not a barista.





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            • #21
              Re: Am I a Barista?

              Originally posted by 3D2225262F3922253E2B26253C2F4A0 link=1305299687/18#18 date=1306200635
              Said by a true non barista
              Yes, but anyone can have an opinion. :P

              My point was getting into the semantics of barista misses the point of the original post.

              Suga is a barista and she can write that on her resume. Just how much of a barista is up to the prospective employer to gauge but if the job requires an experienced barista, then she shouldnt get her hopes up.

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              • #22
                Re: Am I a Barista?

                Hi all,

                Even though I am new as a barista (only 3 years experience), let me share my experience a little bit.

                I worked at my first coffee shop 2 years ago, I had no experience as a waiter nor as a barista. Its basically because I had a right friend then I got the job. I am an Indonesian, where most of our coffees are brewed rather than pressurized by espresso machine. Despite of my lack of knowledge, I showed passion and cleanliness (which is important in any hospitality business).
                The first 3 months, my employer didnt even let me to touch the machines...strictly pouring for take-aways. I was desperate to learn, then I took the certificate (prepare and serve espresso, 4 hours) on my own expense.

                Did my employer let me to be barista after I took the course? Big No. Off course I was frustrated, I thought I had what it takes to be a barista. 4 or 5 months right after that then my employer allow me to make latte occasionally, when its not that busy. Right after that my skill improved rapidly, plus I had few great mentors who already in the business for more than a decade.

                Looking back, I have a theory why I wasnt allowed to make coffee even though I took the course:

                1. That coffee shop is located on the side-walk (Swanston St, across Melbourne Town Hall). There was no way I could handle orders on morning rush, let alone making coffee.

                2. I cant handle multi-tasking as a newbie waiter. For comparison, one of my workmate could handle register with left hand, phone by the ear and steam milk by her right hand. And she still could produce a good silky milk.

                3. Sorry to say this, but I think its true. Certificate means nothing, when people want specific coffee. Not to mention sometimes, each cafe has different sizes of glasses and take-away cups that need to be treated differently.

                So what does it take to be good barista. Until up to this point, I have few points that needed by a barista:

                1. Cleanliness
                Develop a clean habit. I am quite a clean-freak. I follow a chore for each coffee I make. For example: I clean the steamer (scrub by cloth and squirt the steamer) after every coffee I make. After few months doing it, It becomes a habit. You will amaze how many baristas dont pay attention to this details and YES it affect coffees and machines.

                2. Taste
                I am still seeking for what makes good coffee. Feedback from costumers have been really helpful, but relying on compliment might hold you back. Always find perfections.

                3. Quickness
                I was lucky I started my coffee job with decent volume of sales (around 8-9 KG a day). After some times, you will find your own effective and efficient way to make coffee. Every cafe or coffee shop have their own place to put saucers, milk jugs, distance from grinders to espresso machine, etc.

                4. Art
                Art always the last thing. Ive seen people try too hard on art and forget about everything else. It is usually comes along with times and patient. At this point, I am still perfecting my rosetta and my heart art.


                As for the question, whether you are a barista or not. The answer is No. In my opinion, Barista is a job that theory alone will not cut it. You need passion and patience, and one more thing...find someone right to look up to. Observe every move he/she makes as a barista, you might learn a thing or two. I am planning to do this as well, because I am still lack a lot to be a good barista. ;D

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                • #23
                  Re: Am I a Barista?

                  Great stuff and a terrific post  raja_kopi,

                  I think you are on the way to becoming a barista!

                  that there are training institutions handing out "Prep. & Serve" on the basis of 4 hours of training. When I taught it at Angliss, it consisted of 2 days in the training room, significant on the job training in a cafe plus written and practical assessment.

                  There is no way the course can be taught in 4 hours and I am sad to hear that dodgy training institutions are literally giving away bits of paper. 

                  Chris

                  Originally posted by 3B3028333434510 link=1305299687/7#7 date=1305443075
                  Sorry to disagree with the masses, but anyone who pulls a shot professionally is perfectly entiled to call themselves a barista
                  Excellent....I can cut fish with a knife, so I am now entitled to call myself a sushi chef if someone will pay me for it.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Am I a Barista?

                    I have never worked in the coffee industry.

                    I have been involved with the pizza industry.

                    one night seemed a bit hectic

                    we did 320 pizzas in 2 hours. (18 kg of pineapple we used)

                    all the theoretical knowledge (in any industry) is not a substitute for the ability to produce quality and volume of product.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Am I a Barista?

                      This is a really good debate... It covers the grey area that arises when people do a Barista Course...

                      My day job is a Barista Trainer. And one thing I drum into my students who do my course is that even though they are heading in the right direction of becoming a Barista it can take years of training and many thousands of litres of milk (not forgetting the hundreds of kilos of coffee) to actually be a fully experienced Barista. Like any other certificate you do, its the hands on experience that is needed the most. I try not to lead my students into a false sense of security... I think changing your CV to Barista in training is a fabulous idea. I also love Andys idea of offering your time for free in exchange for experience (and if you end up doing such suggestion with Fiefy, then WOW! Even I am jealous! )

                      Best of luck in your coffee making ventures!


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                      • #26
                        Re: Am I a Barista?

                        Excellent reply Leigh.

                        Rgdz,
                        Attilio
                        very first CS site sponsor

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                        • #27
                          Re: Am I a Barista?

                          Originally posted by 54616C6B5F436F66666565000 link=1305299687/22#22 date=1306409560
                          "Prep. & Serve" on the basis of 4 hours of training. When I taught it at Angliss, it consisted of 2 days in the training room, significant on the job training in a cafe plus written and practical assessment.

                          I happen to be one of those who had the privilege to be taught by one of the best teachers. This practice that Chris taught me goes into all the training I give MY crew (and yes it is McDonalds  :P)

                          We have Cerebos (and yes I think there is quite a few people out there who know who they are) come into our store and basically scrutinize how the, lets say "The Baristas in Training" are doing.

                          I dont even get asked to demonstrate my texturing etc, as they know that I have what it takes to pass the tests that they ask for.

                          My crew, do exceptionally well, as they get trained by me and nobody else, because I have the correct training to help them along.

                          One thing I will say that I dislike, is the way people "bash" McCafe. Yes it has its problems, but it is being sorted out. 

                          I dont really even call myself a Barista. Just someone who enjoys the wonders that coffee is and loving the work that I do.
                          -Linda

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                          • #28
                            Re: Am I a Barista?

                            I once worked in an organisation where I worked across two different offices in two locations. The local manager of each office was in charge of employing the staff in their office. One manager when hiring the secretary would look at their certificates and written references and have a chat and then hire. This ended badly a couple of times when the person hired began in the job and couldnt do what was required. The other manager would simply say to the interviewees to come on in and do the job for an hour instead of an interview. He would give them a list of jobs and ask them to also service the requests of other staff during the hour and see how they went. We only ever had brilliant secretaries at that office who were very competent.

                            I see hiring people to make coffee in a cafe the same - why look at certificates and other marketing materials when you can just ask the applicant to take control of the machine and start pumping out coffees. See how they handle pace and test the quality of their product. If I were applying for a job in a cafe I would even suggest that at interview if the hirer didnt themselves - "May I demonstrate my abilities for you and see if I fulfil what you are looking for?" rather than "look at my pieces of paper".

                            Thats not to say dont get the pieces of paper - you should be seeking good training. I just think a barista or whatever people want to call themself should be able to stand on their ability rather than marketing.

                            The problem with my opinion here though is this only works at interview. I guess you need to market to get the interview in the first place. :-/

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                            • #29
                              Re: Am I a Barista?

                              Originally posted by 634C465B220 link=1305299687/13#13 date=1305451462
                              I would suggest calling in to see Fiefy (45 Pirie St, Adelaide) one afternoon and ask if you can work for free for a couple of afternoons to get some machine time in. She has won multiple Barista and Latte Art state championships so you will see "Barista" at a different level to the Tafe course. It might even become a foot in the door and you can add it your resume to help beef it up too.

                              If you are as keen as you sound then most good places would be happy to give you a crack in their quieter part of the day
                              sounds like good advice to me....It definately wouldnt hurt to ask.

                              I have been making coffee for 10 years, in that time I have made hundreds of thousands of coffees. Up until this year I didnt really have as much understanding as I thought I had.

                              Sure I can balance a couple of jugs of milk under the steamers and 3 groups at a time for hours upon end.....definately what you will have to do if you get work in a high volume cafe......and you will have to do it fast without panicking.

                              But ask me about the characteristics of coffee, roasting etc....well this is something that I have only just began to start learning(and alot from this forum) as most of my working life I have been to flat out pumping out coffee for the masses to stop and answer questions of that nature....which most of the time I winged it by just quoting what the coffee bag said.

                              Learning about the complete package... the coffee itself,the machines ,the flavours ,aromas, techniques, etc etc thrown in with the ability to take the customer away from there busy day for just a minute with a joke or the like is what being a barista is all about for me

                              This might be something you might want to think about, If you get a job in a high volume cafe where you are pedal to the floor all day, all of a sudden 10 years have got behind you(sounds like a line from a floyd song).

                              Only this past couple of months have I had the opportunity to get expert training and really start to learn about this wonderful and interesting profession. My new boss calls me a good barista and I study her barista skills very carefully, If I could get to half of her skill level I would be a happy man......I will never stop trying to learn new things.

                              I wish you good luck in your journey...wherever it may take you....all the best!

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